Team 7 vs. Itachi and Kisame (OFFICIAL THREAD)

[rush rush]

Location: Training ground where Bell Test 2 took place. There's open grassland, enough trees for cover and a lake.
Distance: 20 meters.
Abilities: As last seen in manga.
Restrictions: None.
Mindset: In character and fighting to kill.

Team 7 comprises of Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi.

Note: OP to be updated regularly alongwith manga.

[AngelRenegade999]

Kakashi vs. Kisame / Kakashi .
Sasuke , Sakura , Naruto vs. Itachi / Sasuke , Sakura , Naruto .

[rush rush]

Kakashi vs. Kisame / Kakashi .
Sasuke , Sakura , Naruto vs. Itachi / Sasuke , Sakura , Naruto .

No wat Kakashi can beat Kisame

[MinatoNamikaze]

Itachi and Kisame. Kisame or Itachi would take on Kakashi and the other one would take on sasuke, naruto, and sakura

[Soul]

Are you guys kidding me, kisame and itachi would crush team 7 in a second. =/

[MinatoNamikaze]

Are you guys kidding me, kisame and itachi would crush team 7 in a second. =/

Agreed Itachi was practicly doing it himself and with only 30% chakra and no MS

[Smiley]

No.. It wasn't real team 7.
It was Naruto and Kakashi vs. 30% Itachi.
And Itachi got owned.

Yes Itachi and Kisame would take this.
If it were manga section, team 7 would win.

[MinatoNamikaze]

No.. It wasn't real team 7.
It was Naruto and Kakashi vs. 30% Itachi.
And Itachi got owned.

Yes Itachi and Kisame would take this.
If it were manga section, team 7 would win.

I have to disagree. Sakura helped Naruto get out of genjutsu and Chiyo gave them info on Itahci that helped them win. Noone on team seven have anything that can beat sasuno

[Smiley]

I have to disagree. Sakura helped Naruto get out of genjutsu and Chiyo gave them info on Itahci that helped them win. Noone on team seven have anything that can beat sasuno

Chiyo gave them info Kakashi already knew.
Yes, they dispelled genjutsu but that's pretty much it.
And Itachi still got owned.

And Kakashi's time/space warp can most likely suck up Susano'o.
Which in manga, he can activate instantly.

Not to mention that in manga, Sasuke probably has Susano'o too.

[rush rush]

Chiyo gave them info Kakashi already knew.
Yes, they dispelled genjutsu but that's pretty much it.
And Itachi still got owned.

And Kakashi's time/space warp can most likely suck up Susano'o.
Which in manga, he can activate instantly.

Not to mention that in manga, Sasuke probably has Susano'o too.

Agreed and i ment to put it in the manga section!

[ghostrider]

itachi and kisame because itachi will do tsukayomi and kisame has his chakra absorbing sword

[MinatoNamikaze]

Chiyo gave them info Kakashi already knew.

Naruto sis not know though

Yes, they dispelled genjutsu but that's pretty much it.

Without Naruto they would have lost so it was extremely important they be there.

And Itachi still got owned.

Put him at 100% chakra and his MS abilites

And Kakashi's time/space warp can most likely suck up Susano'o.
Which in manga, he can activate instantly.

And while Kakashi's sucking up sasuno, itachi launches a tsukiyomi or amateratsu at him

Not to mention that in manga, Sasuke probably has Susano'o too.


Merely speculation. There has been nothing to indicate this thus far (although he probably does)

[Smiley]

And while Kakashi's sucking up sasuno, itachi launches a tsukiyomi or amateratsu at him

He won't be looking him in the eyes.
As for Amaterasu it can be sucked up too.

And the time/space warp isn't the only way to fight Susano'o.
Kakashi has doton jutsus.
Such as the dog-summons.
Or he can jump out of the ground like in ther fight against Itachi clone.





Merely speculation. There has been nothing to indicate this thus far

Madara said that Itachi transferred all his eye techniques to Sasuke.
That includes Susano'o.

[MinatoNamikaze]

He won't be looking him in the eyes.
As for Amaterasu it can be sucked up too.

It wouldnt suck up amateratsu becasue the hole is too small. It can only concentrate on Sasuno

And the time/space warp isn't the only way to fight Susano'o.
Kakashi has doton jutsus.
Such as the dog-summons.
Or he can jump out of the ground like in ther fight against Itachi clone.

I guess you missed the part about sasunos shield being an absolute defence then.

Madara said that Itachi transferred all his eye techniques to Sasuke.
That includes Susano'o.

Trust me I would love that to happen. But until it does, we cannot say it for fact. Besides isint this the subbed battles section anyway?

[WhiteFang]

I believe this thread would be so much more fun if shifted in the manga section. Then we can debate freely without using spoiler tags.
Anyways, I'll say team 7 definitely.
Its Kakashi, Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke Vs Kisame and Itachi.
And currently as Team 7 are in the manga.. they can pretty much destroy this Akatsuki pair.
I'll give proof when this is shifted.

[Smiley]

I guess you missed the part about sasunos shield being an absolute defence then.

I don't believe the Yata shield exists underground :s


Trust me I would love that to happen. But until it does, we cannot say it for fact. Besides isint this the subbed battles section anyway

Madara said that all Itachi's eye techniques were transferred to Sasuke.
That includes Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu and Susano'o.
In chapter 414/415 Sasuke willingly uses Amaterasu.
Thus, Madara's statement was correct.

As Fang said we should wait for this to be moved to manga section before going any further >_>

[MinatoNamikaze]

I don't believe the Yata shield exists underground :s

No but it shield can prevent things underground from resurfaceing near Itachi. Swrod can have the same benefits

Madara said that all Itachi's eye techniques were transferred to Sasuke.
That includes Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu and Susano'o.
In chapter 414/415 Sasuke willingly uses Amaterasu.
Thus, Madara's statement was correct.

Trust me I know. But until I see it, we cant consider it factual

As Fang said we should wait for this to be moved to manga section before going any further

Agreed. has someone PM'd Majin or Muffin yet?

[rush rush]

I change my mind cause Itachi was beating team 7 with not even using his real body and Kisame was not evn helping!

[Muffin]

Moved to manga section as per request.

[xxxHolic]

Itachi and Kisame.
Well because they are Akatsuki members so they must be really strong.
even though Itachi is half blind but....if you mean the old team 7, the young genins that just graduated then yes, Itachi and Kisame would win for sure.

[WhiteFang]

^^ Thankyou.

So now, onto this fight. I feel clearly Team 7 consisting of Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura take this fight.
This is probably the most versatile and effective team.
No one's gonna get caught in Tsukyomi coz everyone knows about it. And Sasuke can probably counter it too.
Sasuke can also put out Amaterasu now.
Whats left is Susanoo and the black hole can take care of that.
And we know quite little about Kisame, however what we do know is that he is a pro at water techs. Chances are he can be electrocuted using lightning techs. as we have 2 pro Raiton users here. And Naruto can basically sever anything with Rasenshuriken. He was able to cut a waterfall in the initial stages itself. And then we have miss insane strength and superb evasive skills Sakura who can also heal her teammates in a pinch.
And also Kisame is most probably pathetic against any sort of genjutsu, I'll requote myself:



True, he gets caught in it.
And true, he does not get out on his own.
But that doesn't mean he COULDN'T get out.
Itachi took care of Kurenei.
Just because he did doesn't mean Kisame couldn't.

Doesn't mean he can either. And he has never done so uptil now. And since he DID get caught and was clueless, HE CAN'T. This is fact until Kisame shows otherwise. What you are saying is just assumption.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that Akatsuki pair members are generally opposites to each other. Take Hidan and Kakuzu for example. Hidan was rather weak apart from his ritual technique. And Kakuzu more than enough made up for that in the strength department, since he had monsters inside of him, and could use all five elements.

Similarly, Itachi and Kisame.
Itachi is a master of fire techs and Kisame excels at water style jutsu.
Itachi is mostly defensive in his stance and Kisame takes on the offensive.
Kisame clearly makes up for Itachi's relatively lesser stamina as he has a lot of brute strength and chakra reserves.
So, Itachi being an absolute master of genjutsu, probably Kisame is pathetic with it.

[MinatoNamikaze]

^^ Thankyou.

So now, onto this fight. I feel clearly Team 7 consisting of Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura take this fight.
This is probably the most versatile and effective team.
No one's gonna get caught in Tsukyomi coz everyone knows about it. And Sasuke can probably counter it too.
Sasuke can also put out Amaterasu now.
Whats left is Susanoo and the black hole can take care of that.
And we know quite little about Kisame, however what we do know is that he is a pro at water techs. Chances are he can be electrocuted using lightning techs. as we have 2 pro Raiton users here. And Naruto can basically sever anything with Rasenshuriken. He was able to cut a waterfall in the initial stages itself. And then we have miss insane strength and superb evasive skills Sakura who can also heal her teammates in a pinch.
And also Kisame is most probably pathetic against any sort of genjutsu, I'll requote myself:

Now that sasuke has MS its alot closer. Itachi would beat sasuke, and Kisame would be able to beat Kakashi naruto and sakura, or at least beat naruto and sakura and hold off kakashi until Itahci got htere.

[rush rush]

Now that sasuke has MS its alot closer. Itachi would beat sasuke, and Kisame would be able to beat Kakashi naruto and sakura, or at least beat naruto and sakura and hold off kakashi until Itahci got htere.

agreed

[nine tailed fox 099]

i dont cuz in manga sasuke killed itachi and kisame will so lose if its going to be 3 out of 1

[Zepzune]

Bah! Itachi and Kisame win, they would crush Team 7 like ants! Their weaknesses;

Sakura would be to obsessed with Sasuke.

Naruto wouldn't stop saying Believe it to Kisame, and Kisame would get annoyed and crush him.

Sasuke would turn Emo when he saw Itachi.



I think i stated it perfectly!

[rush rush]

i dont cuz in manga sasuke killed itachi and kisame will so lose if its going to be 3 out of 1

Im sorry but Itachi let Sauske win and Kisame will beat the rest of team 7

[WhiteFang]

Now that sasuke has MS its alot closer. Itachi would beat sasuke, and Kisame would be able to beat Kakashi naruto and sakura, or at least beat naruto and sakura and hold off kakashi until Itahci got htere.

But that's just impossible.
I mean c'mon.. ur being biased here.

All Kisame has which we know till now is water techs and huge chakra reserves. Kakashi and Sakura can take care of Kisame. Kakashi is no pushover in Suiton himself and he can also use lightning which can electrocute Kisame. And we also know that he can use Doton and Doton>Suiton. So Kisame is completely pwned in the elemental department.
Then Kakashi also has sharingan which is an added advantage against Kisame who doesn't. And as I've said before, Kisame is probably pathetic against genjutsu and Kakashi can also cast genjutsu on him.
And I've been just talking about Kakashi right now. He also has Sakura to assist him who not only has her insane strength and superb dodging skills but can also help in healing when necessary. She'll be an asset and serve as good distraction for Kisame. And probably if she is good enough, Kakashi may also have time to charge Kamui.

Now Sasuke and Naruto take on Itachi. Tsukyomi and Amaterasu are out of the picture due to Sasuke's new skills. He himself has Tsukyomi (most probably) and can put out Amaterasu. That's 2 of Itachi's strongest attacks down. And while Itachi is busy taking care of Sasuke, Naruto won't just sit around eating popcorn. He has sage chakra now, which means now he'll have EVEN MORE stamina... like it wasn't already enough.. :xd: He won't get tired. He can create like 1000's of Kage Bunshins and also gain information each time Itachi destroys one. Add to that the pwnsome Rasenshuriken. Itachi will have his hands full just battling Sasuke, put Naruto in the mix and its over for him. And Itachi can hold Susanoo for only so long. Naruto can use Bunshins to distract him then. Sasuke and Naruto can dodge for a while.

I still most definitely give this to Team 7.

[MinatoNamikaze]

But that's just impossible.
I mean c'mon.. ur being biased here.

All Kisame has which we know till now is water techs and huge chakra reserves. Kakashi and Sakura can take care of Kisame. Kakashi is no pushover in Suiton himself and he can also use lightning which can electrocute Kisame. And we also know that he can use Doton and Doton>Suiton. So Kisame is completely pwned in the elemental department.
Then Kakashi also has sharingan which is an added advantage against Kisame who doesn't. And as I've said before, Kisame is probably pathetic against genjutsu and Kakashi can also cast genjutsu on him.
And I've been just talking about Kakashi right now. He also has Sakura to assist him who not only has her insane strength and superb dodging skills but can also help in healing when necessary. She'll be an asset and serve as good distraction for Kisame. And probably if she is good enough, Kakashi may also have time to charge Kamui.

Well I think Kisame would be able to at the very least hold off, maybe not defeat but surely hold of Naruto sakura and Kakashi until Itahci is done with sasuke. Once Itachi joins Kisame its all over.

Now Sasuke and Naruto take on Itachi. Tsukyomi and Amaterasu are out of the picture due to Sasuke's new skills. He himself has Tsukyomi (most probably) and can put out Amaterasu. That's 2 of Itachi's strongest attacks down. And while Itachi is busy taking care of Sasuke, Naruto won't just sit around eating popcorn. He has sage chakra now, which means now he'll have EVEN MORE stamina... like it wasn't already enough.. :xd: He won't get tired. He can create like 1000's of Kage Bunshins and also gain information each time Itachi destroys one. Add to that the pwnsome Rasenshuriken. Itachi will have his hands full just battling Sasuke, put Naruto in the mix and its over for him. And Itachi can hold Susanoo for only so long. Naruto can use Bunshins to distract him then. Sasuke and Naruto can dodge for a while.

True but I would have put Naruto with sakura and Kakashi becasue Sasuke wouldnt let anyone interefer with his fight with Itahci. Besides, Itahci has sasuno so sasuke is screwed.

I still most definitely give this to Team 7.


ok fair enough, but I still have to disagree:D

[rush rush]

But that's just impossible.
I mean c'mon.. ur being biased here.



Well I think Kisame would be able to at the very least hold off, maybe not defeat but surely hold of Naruto sakura and Kakashi until Itahci is done with sasuke. Once Itachi joins Kisame its all over.



True but I would have put Naruto with sakura and Kakashi becasue Sasuke wouldnt let anyone interefer with his fight with Itahci. Besides, Itahci has sasuno so sasuke is screwed.




ok fair enough, but I still have to disagree:D

agreed

[WhiteFang]

Well I think Kisame would be able to at the very least hold off, maybe not defeat but surely hold of Naruto sakura and Kakashi until Itahci is done with sasuke. Once Itachi joins Kisame its all over.
Wow.
I don't want to be rude. Sorry. But I gotta say... did you even read my last post?
Kakashi and Sakura would own Kisame.
Put Naruto in there and then they'd finish him of even faster.
Then they can go and assist Sasuke.
This is a team battle correct?
So it means that they can and will help each other. And these 4 are sure as hell awesome when they fight together.

True but I would have put Naruto with sakura and Kakashi becasue Sasuke wouldnt let anyone interefer with his fight with Itahci. Besides, Itahci has sasuno so sasuke is screwed.
Why?
Its a 2 Vs 4 situation. Team 7 aren't idiots. When Kakashi and Sakura can easily handle Kisame, why in the world would Naruto not go and assist Sasuke. And Sasuke not letting anyone interfere is an invalid point as, well, in this situation Team 7 are fighting together like a team. Like they did against Zabuza and Haku. Because from ur point of view, we should just put Itachi out of this as he doesn't want to hurt anyone anyways. He was always a good guy.
Now for the Susanoo part, Sasuke ain't screwed when Itachi brings it out. First off, they hardly start the battle with their best moves. But Naruto can probably force Itachi to bring out Susanoo by using Rasenshuriken. Tsukyomi and Amaterasu will be useless as I've mentioned before. Sasuke can counter them and it will just be a waste of Itachi's chakra. After that we have a very exhausted Itachi and tired Sasuke with a powerhouse Naruto. If Naruto uses Tajuu Kage Bunshin and Rasenshuriken, Itachi will have no other way to save himself except using Susanoo. When he does though, all Naruto and Sasuke need to do is dodge for a while. Sasuke is uber fast and Naruto has 1000's of clones. And after using Susanoo, Itachi is incapacitated, so there. Naruto and Sasuke will be the victors. And I haven't even included Kirin yet.

ok fair enough, but I still have to disagree:D
Its ok to disagree. But factually seeing this, its obvious Team 7 will win.

agreed
That's all you ever write. And its becoming spammish now. Its ok to agree with someone, but that's what you mostly do. No logical arguments at all. Try and post some facts and reasoning and it'd be good.

[rush rush]

That's all you ever write. And its becoming spammish now. Its ok to agree with someone, but that's what you mostly do. No logical arguments at all. Try and post some facts and reasoning and it'd be good.
ok since its obvious Itachi and Kisame would win no problem
Itachi vs. Sauske = Itachi
Kisame vs. Kakashi Naruto Sakura=Naruto the rest dies
Itachi vs. Naruto=Itachi
and there ya go

[MinatoNamikaze]

Wow.
I don't want to be rude. Sorry. But I gotta say... did you even read my last post?
Kakashi and Sakura would own Kisame.
Put Naruto in there and then they'd finish him of even faster.
Then they can go and assist Sasuke.
This is a team battle correct?
So it means that they can and will help each other. And these 4 are sure as hell awesome when they fight together.

What makes you think they would beat Kisame. Kisame beat Neji, Lee, and ten ten adn it too guy going into gates to beat Kisame at 30% chakra levels. Kakashi is stropng but Sakura isint overlly usefull. Kisame could hold them off and at least kill sakura.

Why?
Its a 2 Vs 4 situation. Team 7 aren't idiots. When Kakashi and Sakura can easily handle Kisame, why in the world would Naruto not go and assist Sasuke. And Sasuke not letting anyone interfere is an invalid point as, well, in this situation Team 7 are fighting together like a team. Like they did against Zabuza and Haku. Because from ur point of view, we should just put Itachi out of this as he doesn't want to hurt anyone anyways. He was always a good guy.
Now for the Susanoo part, Sasuke ain't screwed when Itachi brings it out. First off, they hardly start the battle with their best moves. But Naruto can probably force Itachi to bring out Susanoo by using Rasenshuriken. Tsukyomi and Amaterasu will be useless as I've mentioned before. Sasuke can counter them and it will just be a waste of Itachi's chakra. After that we have a very exhausted Itachi and tired Sasuke with a powerhouse Naruto. If Naruto uses Tajuu Kage Bunshin and Rasenshuriken, Itachi will have no other way to save himself except using Susanoo. When he does though, all Naruto and Sasuke need to do is dodge for a while. Sasuke is uber fast and Naruto has 1000's of clones. And after using Susanoo, Itachi is incapacitated, so there. Naruto and Sasuke will be the victors. And I haven't even included Kirin yet.

True amateratsu and tsukiyomi wouldnt work on sasuke, but one tsukiyomi would be far more than enough to beat naruto, so naruto is out already. We already know that Itachi can easily beat sasuke so its now Itahci and Kisame vs Kakashi and sakura if sakura hasnt been beaten yet.

Its ok to disagree. But factually seeing this, its obvious Team 7 will win.

lol I have to disagree again. its obvious Itahci and Kisame would take this :)

[rush rush]

What makes you think they would beat Kisame. Kisame beat Neji, Lee, and ten ten adn it too guy going into gates to beat Kisame at 30% chakra levels. Kakashi is stropng but Sakura isint overlly usefull. Kisame could hold them off and at least kill sakura.



True amateratsu and tsukiyomi wouldnt work on sasuke, but one tsukiyomi would be far more than enough to beat naruto, so naruto is out already. We already know that Itachi can easily beat sasuke so its now Itahci and Kisame vs Kakashi and sakura if sakura hasnt been beaten yet.



lol I have to disagree again. its obvious Itahci and Kisame would take this :)

ok yes Kisame was owning guys team and Itachi was owning team 7 and they were at 30 percent chakra to so both of them together with 100 percent chakra i would have to agree :)

[MinatoNamikaze]

Yes agreed. Besides we havent ever seen Kisame figth at 100%. Actaull we havent seen Itahci go all out either

[rush rush]

Yes agreed. Besides we havent ever seen Kisame figth at 100%. Actaull we havent seen Itahci go all out either

yea i wonder how that would go?they would destroy team 7

[MinatoNamikaze]

yea i wonder how that would go?they would destroy team 7

for sure. I cant see how they couldnt.

[rush rush]

for sure. I cant see how they couldnt.

Unless Naruto goes pissy mode and goes 4 tails then it would be a little closer

[MinatoNamikaze]

Unless Naruto goes pissy mode and goes 4 tails then it would be a little closer

not really. Itachi can use amateratsu or sauno on him. it would be a little closer but not much

[Muffin]

Ok team 7 would destroy Kisame and Itachi.

You seriously underestimate team 7. Sasuke is stronger than Itachi. Kakashi and Naruto would destroy Kisame and Sakura is just the icing on the pwn cake.

Naruto would be caught in the grow genjutsu at most which Sasuke, Sakura or Kakashi could dispell. Kisame is nothing impressive and would be crushed by any combination team 7 throws out.

Sasuke can do everything Itachi can do and more i can't honestly see why any of you would think that team 7 can't beat Kisame and Itachi when they have them out numbered and out manned.

[MinatoNamikaze]

You seriously underestimate team 7. Sasuke is stronger than Itachi. Kakashi and Naruto would destroy Kisame and Sakura is just the icing on the pwn cake.

Itahci is way stronger than sasuke. ALmost everyone knows that. Even though sasuke has ms, Itahci has far better control over it. Weve never seen Kisame really fight. he beat 3/4 of team gai easily at 30%. Besides hes going to be on eof the last villans so hes not going to be as weak as you think. You are the one whos underestimating Kisaem and Itahci

Naruto would be caught in the grow genjutsu at most which Sasuke, Sakura or Kakashi could dispell. Kisame is nothing impressive and would be crushed by any combination team 7 throws out.

Itachi would use tsukiyomi on naruto, or just beat everyone with sasuno. Besides, noone would have time to dispell crom genjutsu from naruto

Sasuke can do everything Itachi can do and more i can't honestly see why any of you would think that team 7 can't beat Kisame and Itachi when they have them out numbered and out manned.

Itahci is way stronger thna Itahci. I honestly cant see why you would think team 7 would win.:p

[Muffin]

Itahci is way stronger than sasuke. ALmost everyone knows that. Even though sasuke has ms, Itahci has far better control over it. Weve never seen Kisame really fight. he beat 3/4 of team gai easily at 30%. Besides hes going to be on eof the last villans so hes not going to be as weak as you think. You are the one whos underestimating Kisaem and Itahci
Itachi was only strong because of his Mangekyo sharingan. Which Sasuke now possesses. Kisame didn't even come close to beating team Gai. Neji crushed all the water clones and Gai stomped Kisame into the ground. Kisame really had no chance against team Gai once they stopped screwing around. No Kisame won't be one of the last villians there's nothing to suggest he will ever be something more than a lackey for a Uchiha.


Itachi would use tsukiyomi on naruto, or just beat everyone with sasuno. Besides, noone would have time to dispell crom genjutsu from naruto
Noone will have time? Sakura managed to dispell it just fine when it was used. Tsykiyomi won't have any bearing because Naruto won't have to look in his eyes. Naruto will be a huge difference maker in the fight.


Itahci is way stronger thna Itahci. I honestly cant see why you would think team 7 would win.:p

Itachi is stronger than Itachi?

Team 7 have Itachi and Kisame beaten all around. Itachi won't beat Sasuke. Kakashi and Sakura are sufficient enough to beat Kisame. Naruto is just the icing on the cake and will help Sasuke stomp Itachi if he needs it. If you won't accept that Naruto and Sasuke will beat Itachi then just mix it and make Kakashi and Naruto the ones to stomp Itachi, while Sasuke and Sakura beat Kisame.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Itachi was only strong because of his Mangekyo sharingan. Which Sasuke now possesses. Kisame didn't even come close to beating team Gai. Neji crushed all the water clones and Gai stomped Kisame into the ground. Kisame really had no chance against team Gai once they stopped screwing around. No Kisame won't be one of the last villians there's nothing to suggest he will ever be something more than a lackey for a Uchiha.

Kisame was at 30% chakra and team guy had 2 jounins, a byakugan, and the gates. Its a bit of a bad example to showcase Kisame

Noone will have time? Sakura managed to dispell it just fine when it was used. Tsykiyomi won't have any bearing because Naruto won't have to look in his eyes. Naruto will be a huge difference maker in the fight.

It took a while to dispell the cro genjutsu. Kakashi was already fighting Itahci in that time. Time passes like normal in crow genjutsu, so whenever naruto was in genjutsu is the amount of time that actaully went by.

If he doesnt get naruto with tsukiyomi then amateratsu will do the trick. Either way, naruto is usless against Itachi almost everyone can agree with that.



Itachi is stronger than Itachi?

oops:p :D

Team 7 have Itachi and Kisame beaten all around. Itachi won't beat Sasuke. Kakashi and Sakura are sufficient enough to beat Kisame. Naruto is just the icing on the cake and will help Sasuke stomp Itachi if he needs it. If you won't accept that Naruto and Sasuke will beat Itachi then just mix it and make Kakashi and Naruto the ones to stomp Itachi, while Sasuke and Sakura beat Kisame.


Itahci is a far better MS user than sasuke so he will own sasuke. YOur probably the only one who can disagree with that. Kakashi and naruto would also got owned by Itahci. Itachi was winning with 30% chakra. He only got hit by rasengan becasue he was pretty much out of chakra as he stated. So triple his ability and add a third to that and you have a one sided battle.

[WhiteFang]

Kisame was at 30% chakra and team guy had 2 jounins, a byakugan, and the gates. Its a bit of a bad example to showcase Kisame
Well.. whatever.
The battle is Team 7 Vs Itachi and Kisame.
And that really changes the dimensions, as in particular, Team Gai are essentially Taijutsu specialists with a byakugan and weapons. And here we have:
1. Naruto: Sage chakra, mass shadow clones, max. stamina, Rasengan, Oodama rasengan and Rasenshuriken.
2. Sasuke: Tsukyomi (most probably), Amaterasu, ability to extinguish Amaterasu, Chidori manipulation and Kirin.
3. Kakashi: Suiton techs. , Doton techs. and Raiton techs. ( he's like Kisame's Kryptonite) Kamui, and sharingan.
4. Sakura: Superb dodging skills, chakra control, insane strength, healing, and can easily dispel genjutsu.

Now I'ma gonna do a really detailed analysis of this battle:
First off as I've explained before, Kakashi and Sakura will take on Kisame. How he'll get pwned I'll explain.
Kisame has huge amounts of chakra and he can only use water techniques.

Kakashi can use:
1. Raiton: Kisame's main techs. out of the window. Kakashi can simply electrocute him. How the hell is he even gonna fight?
2. Doton: Earth > Water, we all know that. So there you go. Kisame pwned again.
3. Suiton: Kakashi is no push over in water techs. himself. Here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/141/17/
Kakashi copies Kisame's jutsu and counters it against him. As we've also seen in the Zabuza arc, Kakashi is very smart and can actually predict the seals and release the attack simultaneously. He is elementally inclined to water, so what's stopping him from countering Kisame's techs. using his sharingan?
And he doesn't need to wage a suiton battle anyway, Kakashi can destroy Kisame with Raiton and Doton techs.
4. Again as I've mentioned before, Kisame is in all probability pathetic against genjutsu. Sakura and Kakashi are both good at that, so he is pwned yet again.
And oh.. Kakashi and Sakura are fighting him. And I haven't even mentioned Sakura yet. But I will. You say Sakura is not much use... oh really?
Lets check out the facts.
1. Kisame is barely able to handle Kakashi and then he has insane strength Sakura come at him. He doesn't have sharingan, neither is he superb at evasion. He prefers to use the Samehada for protection. Sakura can actually put him badly off balance with her fearsome punches to the ground.
2. She has superb evasion skills. One who can dodge and survive 99% of Sasori's attacks is a force to be reckoned with.
3. She can heal. And she has plenty of stamina too.

This is all fact. Kisame gets owned... massive chakra and all.

Now.. onto Itachi Vs Naruto and Sasuke
Itahci is a far better MS user than sasuke so he will own sasuke.
Gimme proof he uses it better. Assumption. Both of them essentially have the same techs. I didn't see any difference in prowess of Sasuke's and Itachi's MS use.
YOur probably the only one who can disagree with that.
I disagree too. Muffin is correct.
Kakashi and naruto would also got owned by Itahci.
Oh? I won't start on this as it is pointless to this debate. Naruto and Sasuke are fighting him. Kakashi and Sakura are pwning Kisame. They can get here to help though, as they'll wrap up pretty fast.
Itachi was winning with 30% chakra.
Read the manga. What happened to him was.. pwnage. He was fooled.
He only got hit by rasengan becasue he was pretty much out of chakra as he stated.
No. He got hit because he could not move. He could not move because he was held by Kakashi's clone. He got trapped and fooled by that clone and wasted a genjutsu on it.
So triple his ability and add a third to that and you have a one sided battle.
Yeah one sided in Team 7's favour.

Lets get into the details of the Sasuke and Naruto VS Itachi battle.
Sasuke has everything Itachi has except Susanoo. In addition to that he can put off Amaterasu.. and.. he has NARUTO with him.
Naruto ain't gettin caught in the crow genjutsu, Sasuke can easily dispel it.
Tsukyomi ain't happening either.
Amaterasu will be put off by Sasuke.
That's 2 of Itachi's 3 strongest techs. gone and Naruto and Sasuke are just getting started.
Naruto does Tajuu Kage Bunshin and then pulls a Rasenshuriken, Itachi can't do anything but use Susanoo to save himself. Or if not that, Sasuke can use Kirin.
Itachi can only hold Susanoo so long and Naruto has almost seamless chakra and Sasuke is also not too exhausted.
While Itachi sloshes about with that huge Susanoo to just defend himself and gets completely incapacitated.
And Naruto hasn't even done much yet.
Wind + Lightning + Fire + MS + mass chakra + 1000's of Bunshins against what?
MS + Fire.
I mean seriously... how the hell does Itachi just "win"?
Itachi was pushed.. we all know it, whether you like it or not in his battle against Sasuke. Granted Sasuke was not as strong as him then, but now with MS and all, he's definitely just as good. And if we go with Smiley's translation thingy.. Sasuke should also have Susanoo.
Kisame has already been beaten by Sakura and Kakashi, and they can come in and help Naruto and Sasuke. And then its definitely all over for Itachi.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Well.. whatever.
The battle is Team 7 Vs Itachi and Kisame.
And that really changes the dimensions, as in particular, Team Gai are essentially Taijutsu specialists with a byakugan and weapons. And here we have:
1. Naruto: Sage chakra, mass shadow clones, max. stamina, Rasengan, Oodama rasengan and Rasenshuriken.
2. Sasuke: Tsukyomi (most probably), Amaterasu, ability to extinguish Amaterasu, Chidori manipulation and Kirin.
3. Kakashi: Suiton techs. , Doton techs. and Raiton techs. ( he's like Kisame's Kryptonite) Kamui, and sharingan.
4. Sakura: Superb dodging skills, chakra control, insane strength, healing, and can easily dispel genjutsu.

Now I'ma gonna do a really detailed analysis of this battle:
First off as I've explained before, Kakashi and Sakura will take on Kisame. How he'll get pwned I'll explain.
Kisame has huge amounts of chakra and he can only use water techniques.

Kakashi can use:
1. Raiton: Kisame's main techs. out of the window. Kakashi can simply electrocute him. How the hell is he even gonna fight?
2. Doton: Earth > Water, we all know that. So there you go. Kisame pwned again.
3. Suiton: Kakashi is no push over in water techs. himself. Here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/141/17/
Kakashi copies Kisame's jutsu and counters it against him. As we've also seen in the Zabuza arc, Kakashi is very smart and can actually predict the seals and release the attack simultaneously. He is elementally inclined to water, so what's stopping him from countering Kisame's techs. using his sharingan?
And he doesn't need to wage a suiton battle anyway, Kakashi can destroy Kisame with Raiton and Doton techs.
4. Again as I've mentioned before, Kisame is in all probability pathetic against genjutsu. Sakura and Kakashi are both good at that, so he is pwned yet again.
And oh.. Kakashi and Sakura are fighting him. And I haven't even mentioned Sakura yet. But I will. You say Sakura is not much use... oh really?
Lets check out the facts.
1. Kisame is barely able to handle Kakashi and then he has insane strength Sakura come at him. He doesn't have sharingan, neither is he superb at evasion. He prefers to use the Samehada for protection. Sakura can actually put him badly off balance with her fearsome punches to the ground.
2. She has superb evasion skills. One who can dodge and survive 99% of Sasori's attacks is a force to be reckoned with.
3. She can heal. And she has plenty of stamina too.

This is all fact. Kisame gets owned... massive chakra and all.

Ok I wont say anymroe on kisame caus i dont want to start making big posts. Ill agree Kisame losses, but he would atleast make sakura nd Kakashi go to 50 or les chakra.

Now.. onto Itachi Vs Naruto and Sasuke

Gimme proof he uses it better. Assumption. Both of them essentially have the same techs. I didn't see any difference in prowess of Sasuke's and Itachi's MS use.

Itahci does have better MS control. Look how easily he put out Amateratsu on sasuke. Now look at how starined sasuke was to put out his amateratsu. Theres your proof.

I disagree too. Muffin is correct.

Ok so there are 2 peopl ein the whole world:D

Read the manga. What happened to him was.. pwnage. He was fooled.

Yes he was fooled cause Kakashi managed to make a clone while Itachis sharingan was useless (while making a grand fire abll attack). Very good on Kakashis part. But remember Naruto would not have been able to use rasengan had Itachi been able to use MS on him while naruto was in genjutsu. So Itahci still would have won had he have been able to use it.

No. He got hit because he could not move. He could not move because he was held by Kakashi's clone. He got trapped and fooled by that clone and wasted a genjutsu on it.

^^ above point

Yeah one sided in Team 7's favour.

I knew someone was going to say that:D

Lets get into the details of the Sasuke and Naruto VS Itachi battle.
Sasuke has everything Itachi has except Susanoo. In addition to that he can put off Amaterasu.. and.. he has NARUTO with him.

Did you see how strained he was to put it out. If he has to do that hes finished. Besides by the time he put it out, naruto or sasuke would be out of commision anyway, look what happened to Karin.

Naruto ain't gettin caught in the crow genjutsu, Sasuke can easily dispel it.

Naruto been caught in it 2 times. Why not a third? While sasukes despelling it Itachi can finihs them both off.

Tsukyomi ain't happening either.

Amaterasu will be put off by Sasuke.

Read earlier points

That's 2 of Itachi's 3 strongest techs. gone and Naruto and Sasuke are just getting started.

Nope all three stil there.

Naruto does Tajuu Kage Bunshin and then pulls a Rasenshuriken, Itachi can't do anything but use Susanoo to save himself. Or if not that, Sasuke can use Kirin.

Naruto would be out long before that happens. Besides as soon as Itahci pulls out sasuno the fight s over.

Itachi can only hold Susanoo so long and Naruto has almost seamless chakra and Sasuke is also not too exhausted.

They will be defeated if sasuno is used. They cannot defeat it.

While Itachi sloshes about with that huge Susanoo to just defend himself and gets completely incapacitated.

Sasuno would put both sasuke and naruto into genjutsu and suck them up.

And Naruto hasn't even done much yet.

Ya thats cause hes dead.

Wind + Lightning + Fire + MS + mass chakra + 1000's of Bunshins against what?
MS + Fire.

He has way more than that. Everyone underestimates him. He can copy jutsu like kakashi so he has all teh justsu hes ever fought against in his repetiore.

I mean seriously... how the hell does Itachi just "win"?
Itachi was pushed.. we all know it, whether you like it or not in his battle against Sasuke.

Yes he was pushed, but not allot. It was mostly the disease that should have killed him ages ago.

Granted Sasuke was not as strong as him then, but now with MS and all, he's definitely just as good. And if we go with Smiley's translation thingy.. Sasuke should also have Susanoo.

He doesnt have the control Itachi does for reasons stated earlier.

Kisame has already been beaten by Sakura and Kakashi, and they can come in and help Naruto and Sasuke. And then its definitely all over for Itachi

It would be a 50% Itahci vs a 50% Kakashi and Sakura and neither of them can beat Itachi.

[ItachiRules]

kisame and itachi would beat them all
kisame= same chakra as naruto and 30% clone almose beat team gai
If itachi tries he'll beat sasuke in a flash

[WhiteFang]

Ok I wont say anymroe on kisame caus i dont want to start making big posts. Ill agree Kisame losses, but he would atleast make sakura nd Kakashi go to 50 or les chakra.
No he wouldn't.
Kakashi would be 50%. Sakura.. she's hardly even fought. Like Muffin said, Icing on the pwnage.


Itahci does have better MS control. Look how easily he put out Amateratsu on sasuke. Now look at how starined sasuke was to put out his amateratsu. Theres your proof.
He did not put it out. He stopped using it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/07/
And look at him here. Not strained huh? If he's so vulnerable with both Naruto and Sasuke in the mix, he's dead.
And here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/12/
He's only dodged this attack because as mentioned later, Sasuke didn't want it to hit anyway. With both Naruto and Sasuke coming at him, the sharingan has a blind spot.

Ok so there are 2 peopl ein the whole world:D
Well the other debaters aren't here yet.

Yes he was fooled cause Kakashi managed to make a clone while Itachis sharingan was useless (while making a grand fire abll attack).
So who says he won't be put in the same predicament again?
Sasuke is a very talented fire user. He can easily keep Itachi occupied and Naruto can move in and attack. Its a 2 Vs 1 situation. Even when Sasuke was alone, Itachi was pushed so much. What makes you think that when the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki, who is damn hell strong now, is there to assist him, how the crap will Itachi last?

But remember Naruto would not have been able to use rasengan had Itachi been able to use MS on him while naruto was in genjutsu.
Again, flaw.
Naruto got caught in a regular genjutsu.
Not Tsukuyomi.
And he won't get caught in it till he looks in his eyes. And he already knows so he won't. So that's out of the picture.
And Sasuke can easily dispel a regular genjutsu.
So Itahci still would have won had he have been able to use it.

Maybe.

Did you see how strained he was to put it out.
He had also actually fought a decent battle before that. And have a look at the links above. Itachi is wasted after 2 Amaterasu's.
So what Sasuke can do is counter his Amaterasu with Amaterasu and while that's happening, Naruto can move in on Itachi's blind spot, since obviously he has to focus on Sasuke. And game over. One Oodama from behind.
If he has to do that hes finished.
No he isn't. He did one Amaterasu and then put it out. And he was ok after that. Not down on the ground like Itachi. Besides, Sasuke made the mistake of underestimating the 8 tails. Something which he won't do against Itachi as he knows how powerful he is.
Besides by the time he put it out, naruto or sasuke would be out of commision anyway, look what happened to Karin.
Again, no. Why would they be out of commission?
Sasuke is battling Itachi's Amaterasu with his own, Naruto is sitting free. He'll finish off Itachi by attacking from the sharingan's blind spot.

Naruto been caught in it 2 times. Why not a third?
Third time lucky. xD Anyways, he won't because he won't look into Itachi's eyes. So Tsukuyomi ain't happening.
While sasukes despelling it Itachi can finihs them both off.
How?
That's just ridiculous.
He's completely still while battling Sasuke in genjutsu. And to the Kurenai and Kakashi links you'd provided earlier in other debates. Notice one thing that very importantly, Itachi is shown attacking right after the genjutsu is dispelled. The only genjutsu battle we've seen whilst happening through the eyes of an observer was Itachi Vs Sasuke and both of them were completely still.

Read earlier points
Read. Countered.

Naruto would be out long before that happens.
No he won't be. Sasuke is fighting Itachi and keeping his hands full. Naruto hasn't even done anything yet.
Besides as soon as Itahci pulls out sasuno the fight s over.

Its over. Yes. In Team 7's favor.

They will be defeated if sasuno is used. They cannot defeat it.

Bold statement.
All they need to do is dodge for a while. Itachi is dead after he uses it. He sloshes about with that Susanoo, his movements are restricted. Tell me how the heck he wins?

Sasuno would put both sasuke and naruto into genjutsu and suck them up.
How?
Naruto has mass shadow clones and Sasuke is fast, they can dodge that sword. All Susanoo will do is defend Itachi from Naruto and Sasuke's attacks.
And Sasuke can do Kirin. The atmosphere is heated with Amaterasu's in this battle.

Ya thats cause hes dead.
No.

He has way more than that. Everyone underestimates him. He can copy jutsu like kakashi so he has all teh justsu hes ever fought against in his repetiore.
No he does not.
Lets go through a clarification class because you overestimate Itachi like no one else on this forum.
He can't do what Kakashi does because to use a jutsu, not only do you need to know the hand seals but also have elemental accordance for the same. Which means that even if Itachi has copied seals, he cannot use wind, lightning, earth or water elements. Just fire. And the other stuff I mentioned. What Naruto and Sasuke have combined is much greater.

Yes he was pushed, but not allot.
He killed himself, that's alot.
It was mostly the disease that should have killed him ages ago.
He was taking medicine.

He doesnt have the control Itachi does for reasons stated earlier.

He does. Actually it has been stated that Sasuke's eyes are stronger than Itachi's. What are u trying to get at?

It would be a 50% Itahci vs a 50% Kakashi and Sakura and neither of them can beat Itachi.
Not again.. and Naruto and Sasuke have already pushed him to Susanoo anyways. He's as good as dead after that. Kakashi and Sakura can give a finishing blow.

[MinatoNamikaze]

No he wouldn't.
Kakashi would be 50%. Sakura.. she's hardly even fought. Like Muffin said, Icing on the pwnage.



He did not put it out. He stopped using it.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/07/
And look at him here. Not strained huh? If he's so vulnerable with both Naruto and Sasuke in the mix, he's dead.
And here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/12/
He's only dodged this attack because as mentioned later, Sasuke didn't want it to hit anyway. With both Naruto and Sasuke coming at him, the sharingan has a blind spot.


Well the other debaters aren't here yet.


So who says he won't be put in the same predicament again?
Sasuke is a very talented fire user. He can easily keep Itachi occupied and Naruto can move in and attack. Its a 2 Vs 1 situation. Even when Sasuke was alone, Itachi was pushed so much. What makes you think that when the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki, who is damn hell strong now, is there to assist him, how the crap will Itachi last?


Again, flaw.
Naruto got caught in a regular genjutsu.
Not Tsukuyomi.
And he won't get caught in it till he looks in his eyes. And he already knows so he won't. So that's out of the picture.
And Sasuke can easily dispel a regular genjutsu.

Maybe.


He had also actually fought a decent battle before that. And have a look at the links above. Itachi is wasted after 2 Amaterasu's.
So what Sasuke can do is counter his Amaterasu with Amaterasu and while that's happening, Naruto can move in on Itachi's blind spot, since obviously he has to focus on Sasuke. And game over. One Oodama from behind.

No he isn't. He did one Amaterasu and then put it out. And he was ok after that. Not down on the ground like Itachi. Besides, Sasuke made the mistake of underestimating the 8 tails. Something which he won't do against Itachi as he knows how powerful he is.

Again, no. Why would they be out of commission?
Sasuke is battling Itachi's Amaterasu with his own, Naruto is sitting free. He'll finish off Itachi by attacking from the sharingan's blind spot.


Third time lucky. xD Anyways, he won't because he won't look into Itachi's eyes. So Tsukuyomi ain't happening.

How?
That's just ridiculous.
He's completely still while battling Sasuke in genjutsu. And to the Kurenai and Kakashi links you'd provided earlier in other debates. Notice one thing that very importantly, Itachi is shown attacking right after the genjutsu is dispelled. The only genjutsu battle we've seen whilst happening through the eyes of an observer was Itachi Vs Sasuke and both of them were completely still.


Read. Countered.


No he won't be. Sasuke is fighting Itachi and keeping his hands full. Naruto hasn't even done anything yet.

Its over. Yes. In Team 7's favor.


Bold statement.
All they need to do is dodge for a while. Itachi is dead after he uses it. He sloshes about with that Susanoo, his movements are restricted. Tell me how the heck he wins?


How?
Naruto has mass shadow clones and Sasuke is fast, they can dodge that sword. All Susanoo will do is defend Itachi from Naruto and Sasuke's attacks.
And Sasuke can do Kirin. The atmosphere is heated with Amaterasu's in this battle.


No.

No he does not.
Lets go through a clarification class because you overestimate Itachi like no one else on this forum.
He can't do what Kakashi does because to use a jutsu, not only do you need to know the hand seals but also have elemental accordance for the same. Which means that even if Itachi has copied seals, he cannot use wind, lightning, earth or water elements. Just fire. And the other stuff I mentioned. What Naruto and Sasuke have combined is much greater.


He killed himself, that's alot.

He was taking medicine.


He does. Actually it has been stated that Sasuke's eyes are stronger than Itachi's. What are u trying to get at?


Not again.. and Naruto and Sasuke have already pushed him to Susanoo anyways. He's as good as dead after that. Kakashi and Sakura can give a finishing blow.


Ok im going to stop right here. Im not geting into a scenario debate here. If itachi uses amateratsu on naruto, naruto would be out even if sasuke puts it out with his MS. Look at Karin she was hit and sasuke put it out she didnt die but she was out of commision. also see that sasuke was completely valnerable while doing this. Itachi could then attack sasuke openly and hes finished.

The other thing I want to point out is that kakashi is nowhere near capable of beating Kisame alone and only using 50% chakra ontop of that.

[rush rush]

Ok whitefang lets get this straight k Itachi was doing good against team 7 alone and at 30 pecent chakra!so if that is so then they will all die cause Itachi is at full chakra with Kisame!!!!And Kisame will drown the place with water and then Kisame can use his water shark jutsu and It will drag Kakashi down in the water and Itachi would do Chidori on the water and it will kill Kakashi and that is just one tactic

[MinatoNamikaze]

^^ agreed. Thanks for sideing with me :)

sorry for the double post. Ill edit his tomorrow, but I just want to point out that according to kishis databook, Kisame is alot stronger than Sakura, and just a little weaker than Kakashi. This means it would be alot closer than people think

[Muffin]

^^ agreed. Thanks for sideing with me :)

sorry for the double post. Ill edit his tomorrow, but I just want to point out that according to kishis databook, Kisame is alot stronger than Sakura, and just a little weaker than Kakashi. This means it would be alot closer than people think

The Data book is full of glaring inaccuracies. This is the same book that says Kiba is just as fast as Gai and Lee. The same that says Kankuro is stronger than Naruto. Take it's "stats" with a grain of salt.

It does nothing to sway the idea of the fight and doesn't bring in the characters: jutsu, tactics, fighting style etc.

[MinatoNamikaze]

The Data book is full of glaring inaccuracies. This is the same book that says Kiba is just as fast as Gai and Lee. The same that says Kankuro is stronger than Naruto. Take it's "stats" with a grain of salt.

Why are you argueing with the author. Whatever he says is the law. He wasnt forced to make the stats the way they are. If saying he is incorrect is the last retorc you have well... v.v

It does nothing to sway the idea of the fight and doesn't bring in the characters: jutsu, tactics, fighting style etc.

Actually it does. Jutsu are the ninjutsu, taijutsu, and genjutsu section, tactics and fighting style are under intelligence. However that being said, the only thing unaccounted for is sheer will power, which is Narutos biggest stregnth and why he will the strongest in no time. Other than that, everythings accounted for.

[rush rush]

Why are you argueing with the author. Whatever he says is the law. He wasnt forced to make the stats the way they are. If saying he is incorrect is the last retorc you have well... v.v



Actually it does. Jutsu are the ninjutsu, taijutsu, and genjutsu section, tactics and fighting style are under intelligence. However that being said, the only thing unaccounted for is sheer will power, which is Narutos biggest stregnth and why he will the strongest in no time. Other than that, everythings accounted for.

yep thats true so Muffin im sorry but it looks like Kisame and Itachi won

[SahnTeeAhGoh]

Are you guys kidding me, kisame and itachi would crush team 7 in a second. =/


MAYBE.

That mainly goes around the fact that the three Kisami clones where able to trap the three members of team Gai, Neji, Ten Ten, and Lee. Though, as you saw the broke out when it was the perfect timing, something that you would not expect.

Kakashi has his Chidori, and then Sasuke has his 100's of Chidori copies. If this is post time skip; then Team 7 WOULD most likely win.

Kisami versus Naruto doesn't really seem like much of a battle, but Naruto CAN summon toads, the large ones as well. While Kisami is said to have equal chakra to the nine tails, Naruto still has his Variations of the Rasengan, which would eventually take Kisami out. If Naruto where to be injured, Kakashi would probably be able to hold them off while Naruto is healed by Sakura.

Now, if it is post time skip, then Sai would be able to hold them off for a little, though he would probably be caught by the MS soon like Sasuke had done to him, though he probably wouldn't make the same mistake twice.

So, I HONESTLY have to say Team 7 would win this one....

Though, if you mean TEam 7 with YAMOTO.. He would be able to do some good damage as well. Either way they would win, Yamoto can use the wood element, and that would be a hassel for both Itachi, AND Kisami.

[MinatoNamikaze]

well if you add Yamato that makes it alow closer, but I still believe Itahci and Kisame take it

[SahnTeeAhGoh]

Ehhh... I'm still thinking team 7... Naruto can go Nine tails, remember? And he is bound to be advanced in it as well. The toads that he could summon would easily be able to stall both Kisami and Itachi for quiet a while, while the others attack them from behind, or something. We may never know, but hopefully; we will someday figure it out.=p Yamoto would probably be able to trap them, so yeah. I still wanna say Team 7.

[Muffin]

Why are you argueing with the author. Whatever he says is the law. He wasnt forced to make the stats the way they are. If saying he is incorrect is the last retorc you have well... v.v


Actually it does. Jutsu are the ninjutsu, taijutsu, and genjutsu section, tactics and fighting style are under intelligence. However that being said, the only thing unaccounted for is sheer will power, which is Narutos biggest stregnth and why he will the strongest in no time. Other than that, everythings accounted for.

Due to the way the stats are presented in the data book anything to do with the stats have no bearing in the battledome, I'm sure Majin would agree with me on this.

There is no way Itachi and Kisame can beat team 7. The Itachi clone who could do everything Itachi can was crushed easily. Naruto and Kakashi barely needed to try.

That leaves Sakura to assist Sasuke against Kisame who would be destroyed by Sasuke and Sakura's team work.

Team 7 just has this.

And btw guys the original poster specified that it was the original team 7 without sai and Yamato :p

[MinatoNamikaze]

Due to the way the stats are presented in the data book anything to do with the stats have no bearing in the battledome, I'm sure Majin would agree with me on this.

Fine I dont need that as proof.

There is no way Itachi and Kisame can beat team 7. The Itachi clone who could do everything Itachi can was crushed easily. Naruto and Kakashi barely needed to try.

Itachi clone was at 30%, had no MS, and put Naruto into genjutsu which naruto couldnt dispell becasue he wouldnt have anyone to help him with it. LOL didnt need to try. Go read the manga over again.

That leaves Sakura to assist Sasuke against Kisame who would be destroyed by Sasuke and Sakura's team work.

Actually It would be naruto and sasuke on Itachi but Ill go with Kisame on sakura and sasuke to keep you happy. Sakura is defeated, but sasuke beats kisame, but sasuke is at 50% or so. Itahci beats naruto and kakashi easily and well say he also is at 50%. Itachi>sasuke so itachi and kisame win.

Team 7 just has this.

Nope:D :nuts:

And btw guys the original poster specified that it was the original team 7 without sai and Yamato :p

kk I was just going to say that :D

[Muffin]

Itachi clone was at 30%, had no MS, and put Naruto into genjutsu which naruto couldnt dispell becasue he wouldnt have anyone to help him with it. LOL didnt need to try. Go read the manga over again.
Maybe you should read the manga again. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/07/)
Itachi clone could use his Mangekyo. Itachi simply can't use Mangekyo inside genjutsu.
Kakashi and Naruto simply outmatched Itachi. He was out manned, out smarted and just beat without much trouble.

Actually It would be naruto and sasuke on Itachi but Ill go with Kisame on sakura and sasuke to keep you happy. Sakura is defeated, but sasuke beats kisame, but sasuke is at 50% or so. Itahci beats naruto and kakashi easily and well say he also is at 50%. Itachi>sasuke so itachi and kisame win.
Unless the original poster specified specifically it had to be Sasuke vs Itachi there can be any variation at all. Prove to me that Kisame can even lay a hand on Sakura. You're just assuming Sakura will die. Kisame isn't fast and just has overwhelming power. Tell me where that gets him if he can't lay a hand on Sakura? While Sasuke simply channels Kirin and guides the lightning through Kisame's skull. Done. No more Kisame. Sasuke and Sakura can go chill with Naruto and Kakashi after they've dispatched Itachi.


Nope:D :nuts:
Elaborate please. Show evidence to back your claim.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Maybe you should read the manga again. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/07/)
Itachi clone could use his Mangekyo. Itachi simply can't use Mangekyo inside genjutsu.

No i was saying he couldnt use it cause he only had 30% chakra. Thats why he didnt use amateratsu or tsukiyomi on naruto or kakashi off the bat.

Kakashi and Naruto simply outmatched Itachi. He was out manned, out smarted and just beat without much trouble.

Itachi is tronger than naruto and kakashi. If he could have used amateratsu, one of them is finished and 1v1, he is 2 times stronger than either.

Unless the original poster specified specifically it had to be Sasuke vs Itachi there can be any variation at all. Prove to me that Kisame can even lay a hand on Sakura. You're just assuming Sakura will die. Kisame isn't fast and just has overwhelming power. Tell me where that gets him if he can't lay a hand on Sakura? While Sasuke simply channels Kirin and guides the lightning through Kisame's skull. Done. No more Kisame. Sasuke and Sakura can go chill with Naruto and Kakashi after they've dispatched Itachi.

Sakura isint s-class missing nin level. Kisame can take here out. but fine sasuke beats kisame. I agree, but his giant fireballs and the other jutsu he has to use in the biggining take chakra.

Itachi beat naruto and kakashi.

Itachi>sasuke

Itachi wins

Elaborate please. Show evidence to back your claim.

there you go ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Muffin]

No i was saying he couldnt use it cause he only had 30% chakra. Thats why he didnt use amateratsu or tsukiyomi on naruto or kakashi off the bat.

So Itachi doesn't have enough chakra to use his most powerful skills right off the bat but he can use them after using genjutsu and throwing fireballs?

Surely i hope you see how ridiculous that assumption is. He didn't use them because Naruto and Kakashi whooped his ass before he even could.

Itachi is tronger than naruto and kakashi. If he could have used amateratsu, one of them is finished and 1v1, he is 2 times stronger than either.
Well he won't get the chance to use Amaterasu. He's stronger than either individually but he can't beat them both.


Sakura isint s-class missing nin level. Kisame can take here out. but fine sasuke beats kisame. I agree, but his giant fireballs and the other jutsu he has to use in the biggining take chakra.

Itachi beat naruto and kakashi.

Itachi>sasuke

Itachi wins

Wrong. classes don't mean jack. How can Kisame take her out? give some actual proof. Sakura could heal any injuries Kisame is lucky enough to give. Sakura and Sasuke can stomp him out quite easily. That leaves Itachi who was beaten by Sasuke alone to face all four of team 7 if he is even still alive.

Naruto and Kakashi can beat Itachi by themselves. Sasuke did beat Itachi by himself. Itachi is not going to win the fight by himself. Kthxbye.

[MinatoNamikaze]

So Itachi doesn't have enough chakra to use his most powerful skills right off the bat but he can use them after using genjutsu and throwing fireballs?

Surely i hope you see how ridiculous that assumption is. He didn't use them because Naruto and Kakashi whooped his ass before he even could.

If he used amateratsu naruto would have died, which is the last thing Itachi wanted. We have never seen Itachi go all out. If he had to he would use amateratsu on either of them and then take out the other.

Its not that he didnt have time, he could have used amateratsu instead on genjutsu on naruto and naruto would be dead.

Wrong. classes don't mean jack. How can Kisame take her out? give some actual proof. Sakura could heal any injuries Kisame is lucky enough to give. Sakura and Sasuke can stomp him out quite easily. That leaves Itachi who was beaten by Sasuke alone to face all four of team 7 if he is even still alive.

SO your saying noone can beat sakura? Thats a joke.

Naruto and Kakashi can beat Itachi by themselves. Sasuke did beat Itachi by himself. Itachi is not going to win the fight by himself. Kthxbye.

This proves your an ANTI-Itachi fan. Everyone knows Itachi >sasuke and Itahci could have beat sasuke if he wanted to easily. its been said in the manga. Your the ONLY one who disagrees because you hate Itachi

[Muffin]

If he used amateratsu naruto would have died, which is the last thing Itachi wanted. We have never seen Itachi go all out. If he had to he would use amateratsu on either of them and then take out the other.

Its not that he didnt have time, he could have used amateratsu instead on genjutsu on naruto and naruto would be dead.

False. Itachi went all out against Sasuke.

Amaterasu takes time to use. In that time Kakashi could use his own mangekyo, Naruto could nail him with a rasengan etc. there is nothing Itachi could do to stop both of them in their tracks. The fact that Naruto and Kakashi didn't even have to use any of their aces or powerful techniques shows how pitiful Itachi is when he's facing more than one opponent.


SO your saying noone can beat sakura? Thats a joke.

It's a joke that your just assuming that Kisame has to kill one person. What's he got to hit Sakura with? paired with Sasuke's insane speed Kisame isn't going to last long even with his monstrous strength and chakra. A Kirin through the skull or a curb stomp from Sakura would both end him right there and then.

This proves your an ANTI-Itachi fan. Everyone knows Itachi >sasuke and Itahci could have beat sasuke if he wanted to easily. its been said in the manga. Your the ONLY one who disagrees because you hate Itachi

I also hate Sasuke and think Orochimaru is awesome what's your point?

You're assuming Itachi alone will destroy all of team 7 when he was stomped by Kakashi and Naruto when they didn't even need to pull out anything. While Sasuke actually just has beaten Itachi.

[rush rush]

False. Itachi went all out against Sasuke.
im tired of telling everyone this Itachi let Sauske beat him!
I also hate Sasuke and think Orochimaru is awesome what's your point?

You're assuming Itachi alone will destroy all of team 7 when he was stomped by Kakashi and Naruto when they didn't even need to pull out anything. While Sasuke actually just has beaten Itachi.Itachi did not even try during his battle with team 7 understand that and understand that Itachi let Sauske kill him!!!

[linksmolecules]

Kakashi could defeat Kissmae,but not itachi, naruto and kakashi could maybee defeat itachi, Itachi and Kissame would be able to defeat team7, if no one intervened.

[rush rush]

Kakashi could defeat Kissmae,but not itachi, naruto and kakashi could maybee defeat itachi, Itachi and Kissame would be able to defeat team7, if no one intervened.

I agree that team 7 would win but i don't agree that Kakashi could defeat Kisame well a big benefit for Kisame is that his chakra is equal with the nine tailed fox!So thats a huge + in my opinion

[MinatoNamikaze]

False. Itachi went all out against Sasuke.

wow, just wow.

Amaterasu takes time to use. In that time Kakashi could use his own mangekyo, Naruto could nail him with a rasengan etc. there is nothing Itachi could do to stop both of them in their tracks. The fact that Naruto and Kakashi didn't even have to use any of their aces or powerful techniques shows how pitiful Itachi is when he's facing more than one opponent.

Actually, Naruto used everything he had. Odam Rasengan, rasengan, shdaow clones. Thats all naruto has.

Amateratsu is very fast and takes no time at all to use. For about the 10th time in this thread, look at how fast he countered sasukes katon attack. It actaully activates faster than most ninjutsu. Itachi had to kill the clan therefore had to face many people at one, he was very good at 1v? battles.

It's a joke that your just assuming that Kisame has to kill one person. What's he got to hit Sakura with? paired with Sasuke's insane speed Kisame isn't going to last long even with his monstrous strength and chakra. A Kirin through the skull or a curb stomp from Sakura would both end him right there and then.

Well Kisame is stronger than sakura and more experienced then sasuke. He would atleast be able top hit her, if he cant noone could tehn with your thinking. Sure she can doge well, but she cant dodge everything

I also hate Sasuke and think Orochimaru is awesome what's your point?

You're assuming Itachi alone will destroy all of team 7 when he was stomped by Kakashi and Naruto when they didn't even need to pull out anything. While Sasuke actually just has beaten Itachi.


Look above ^^^

[Butter]

itachi and kisame because itachi could use ms and kisame could come around and cut thier chakura

[Soul]

itachi and kisame because itachi could use ms and kisame could come around and cut thier chakura

Everything you post is epic failure.

I agree with you on kisame and itachi beating team 7 though.

[Muffin]

wow, just wow.

The truth hurts. Itachi pulled out his best attacks and if you don't think that's not going all out then i don't know what to tell you.

Actually, Naruto used everything he had. Odam Rasengan, rasengan, shdaow clones. Thats all naruto has.

Amateratsu is very fast and takes no time at all to use. For about the 10th time in this thread, look at how fast he countered sasukes katon attack. It actaully activates faster than most ninjutsu. Itachi had to kill the clan therefore had to face many people at one, he was very good at 1v? battles.

Everything? Naruto didn't need to use any of the kyuubi chakra (and he would've at that point if he needed to). The only time he used a shadow clone was to use Oodama rasengan. Naruto was barely doing anything. While Kakashi barely even tried. He didn't even need to use his mangekyo.

And no Amaterasu isn't fast. He needs to perform a series of seals and in that time Sasuke managed to throw plenty of katon attacks and a shadow shuriken at him. In that time he would be nailed by Kakashi mangekyo or a rasengan and so long Itachi.


Well Kisame is stronger than sakura and more experienced then sasuke. He would atleast be able top hit her, if he cant noone could tehn with your thinking. Sure she can doge well, but she cant dodge everything
And Sasori is more experienced than both Itachi and Kisame yet Sakura dodged just about everything he threw at her and his attacks are much faster than Kisame. Seriously tell me what Kisame's pulling out to use that's gonna kill her? I'm just going to keep asking until you answer and if you can't then drop it.

[MinatoNamikaze]

The truth hurts. Itachi pulled out his best attacks and if you don't think that's not going all out then i don't know what to tell you.


Yes he pulled out his best attacks, but he didnt use them to their full extent

Everything? Naruto didn't need to use any of the kyuubi chakra (and he would've at that point if he needed to). The only time he used a shadow clone was to use Oodama rasengan. Naruto was barely doing anything. While Kakashi barely even tried. He didn't even need to use his mangekyo.

Naruto did use everything he had, which according to you, means he was going all out.

And Itachi was at 30% chakra!!!!!!!!

And no Amaterasu isn't fast. He needs to perform a series of seals and in that time Sasuke managed to throw plenty of katon attacks and a shadow shuriken at him. In that time he would be nailed by Kakashi mangekyo or a rasengan and so long Itachi.

He is still very fast with the hand seals. Only becasue sasuke is faster than naruto and kakaashi and had a shuriken on him was he able to throw a shuriken at Itachi to stop him. Kakshi cant activate it that fast and neither can naruto.

And Sasori is more experienced than both Itachi and Kisame yet Sakura dodged just about everything he threw at her and his attacks are much faster than Kisame. Seriously tell me what Kisame's pulling out to use that's gonna kill her? I'm just going to keep asking until you answer and if you can't then drop it.

Ok he doesnt have to hit her, He just has to hit near her and absorb her chakra, then she is lik a regualr civilian, and essentially out of the battle. So she may not die which I think she would but she would be useless

[Muffin]

Yes he pulled out his best attacks, but he didnt use them to their full extent
So Tsukiyomi didn't try to break Sasuke's spirit? Amaterasu didn't try to incinerate Sasuke's body? Susanoo didn't seal away someone? Elaborate on how they weren't at their full extent.


Naruto did use everything he had, which according to you, means he was going all out.

And Itachi was at 30% chakra!!!!!!!!
Naruto didn't even tap into the kyuubi. He didn't even start using his shadow clones (granted he used one for oodama rasengan) Naruto was nowhere near going all out.

30% or not Itachi controlled everything it did. He wouldn't survive an Oodama rasengan to the face at full power. He would've been caught in that instance even if it was the real him.


He is still very fast with the hand seals. Only becasue sasuke is faster than naruto and kakaashi and had a shuriken on him was he able to throw a shuriken at Itachi to stop him. Kakshi cant activate it that fast and neither can naruto.
Kakashi can activate his Mangekyo instantly. And what is Naruto going to activate fast? Rasengan? Rasengan is very fast to use.

Itachi needed to defend himself for some time agaisnt Sasuke and Sasuke was almost ready to finish off Itachi aswell, Amaterasu barely came in to save Itachi's life. Against two opponents he won't be so lucky.


Ok he doesnt have to hit her, He just has to hit near her and absorb her chakra, then she is lik a regualr civilian, and essentially out of the battle. So she may not die which I think she would but she would be useless

Samehada doesn't work that way. It won't drain someones chakra if they aren't trying to fill the room with it like Naruto was doing. Asuma got hit by the damn thing and all it did was hurt his shoulder he lost no chakra.

[MinatoNamikaze]

So Tsukiyomi didn't try to break Sasuke's spirit? Amaterasu didn't try to incinerate Sasuke's body? Susanoo didn't seal away someone? Elaborate on how they weren't at their full extent.

Amateratsu was stoppped by Itachi and sasuno wasnt used on sasuke

Naruto didn't even tap into the kyuubi. He didn't even start using his shadow clones (granted he used one for oodama rasengan) Naruto was nowhere near going all out.

He wouldnt have been able to USE oodama rasengan without using his clone so he did use shadow clone.

30% or not Itachi controlled everything it did. He wouldn't survive an Oodama rasengan to the face at full power. He would've been caught in that instance even if it was the real him.

He was almost out of chakra so his senses and control were VERY limited. So Kakashi wouldnt have tricked him had he been at 100%

Kakashi can activate his Mangekyo instantly. And what is Naruto going to activate fast? Rasengan? Rasengan is very fast to use.

Not as fast as Itachi would use Amateratsu. Look at his hands, he almost realesed it by the time sasuke launched a shuriken at him and sasuke was prepared with that. Naruto and kakashi dont have those seals on their wrists

Itachi needed to defend himself for some time agaisnt Sasuke and Sasuke was almost ready to finish off Itachi aswell, Amaterasu barely came in to save Itachi's life. Against two opponents he won't be so lucky.

Itachi did use amateratsu and it saved his life. he managed to use it while using another juysu, very impresive.

Why wouldnt he be so lucky, hes brilliant

Samehada doesn't work that way. It won't drain someones chakra if they aren't trying to fill the room with it like Naruto was doing. Asuma got hit by the damn thing and all it did was hurt his shoulder he lost no chakra.

Prove that Asuma had alot of chakra left. He didnt fight again so that proves that he doesnt have chakra. Samehada cuts through the chakra around the body

[Muffin]

Amateratsu was stoppped by Itachi and sasuno wasnt used on sasuke
No Amaterasu was only targeted at his lower body. Which Sasuke got out from.


He wouldnt have been able to USE oodama rasengan without using his clone so he did use shadow clone.
I said he used a shadow clone for Oodama rasengan. He didn't even use them besides that. Considering it's his primary fighting style he was nowhere near going all out.


He was almost out of chakra so his senses and control were VERY limited. So Kakashi wouldnt have tricked him had he been at 100%
Wtf where did you get the idea the control was limited? He could do everything the real Itachi could. Even if it was the real Itachi he would've been fooled just the same and would've been picking his own brain matter out of his teeth.


Not as fast as Itachi would use Amateratsu. Look at his hands, he almost realesed it by the time sasuke launched a shuriken at him and sasuke was prepared with that. Naruto and kakashi dont have those seals on their wrists
Not as fast? In the time it took Itachi to use his Amaterasu Sasuke threw great fireballs at him, shurikens, smacked him around and had enough time to talk about his revenge. That's plenty of time for Naruto and Kakashi to kill Itachi.


Itachi did use amateratsu and it saved his life. he managed to use it while using another juysu, very impresive.

Why wouldnt he be so lucky, hes brilliant

Because he is facing Naruto and Kakashi. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja there is. Naruto is an explosive powerhouse. Paired up Itachi won't have the time he did against just Sasuke.

Prove that Asuma had alot of chakra left. He didnt fight again so that proves that he doesnt have chakra. Samehada cuts through the chakra around the body

Because Asume was ready to keep fighting and didn't even say anything about losing his chakra. If Naruto noticed right away are you trying to tell me Asuma who is a skilled jounin and one of konoha's finest won't notice he's out of chakra. Asume's trench knives worked fine and they need the chakra to use so no. Samehada eats chakra it worked on Naruto because his was filling the room like it filled the stadium against Neji. Samehada will have no bearing on how badly Sasuke and Sakura tear Kisame to pieces.

[MinatoNamikaze]

No Amaterasu was only targeted at his lower body. Which Sasuke got out from.

If he used it all out he would have attacked sasukes head.

I said he used a shadow clone for Oodama rasengan. He didn't even use them besides that. Considering it's his primary fighting style he was nowhere near going all out.

True, but then you have to admit Itachi wasnt going all out either

Wtf where did you get the idea the control was limited? He could do everything the real Itachi could. Even if it was the real Itachi he would've been fooled just the same and would've been picking his own brain matter out of his teeth.

Think about it. very little, vision, smell, touch, hearing, etc, makes it harder to control something.


Not as fast? In the time it took Itachi to use his Amaterasu Sasuke threw great fireballs at him, shurikens, smacked him around and had enough time to talk about his revenge. That's plenty of time for Naruto and Kakashi to kill Itachi.

Actaully sasuke only used a shuriken to prevent him from using amateratsu. Itachi then activaed amateratsu again another time succesfully while also countering sasuke katon jutsu with a katon justu of his own meaning he started using another jutsu while already using one. Itahci is praised for having to fastest hand seals in the naruto universe, so he is very fast at casting jutsu, most likely the fastest.


Because Asume was ready to keep fighting and didn't even say anything about losing his chakra. If Naruto noticed right away are you trying to tell me Asuma who is a skilled jounin and one of konoha's finest won't notice he's out of chakra. Asume's trench knives worked fine and they need the chakra to use so no. Samehada eats chakra it worked on Naruto because his was filling the room like it filled the stadium against Neji. Samehada will have no bearing on how badly Sasuke and Sakura tear Kisame to pieces

So your saying samehada only works on naruto mass shadow clone jutsu then?

[Muffin]

If he used it all out he would have attacked sasukes head.[/quoted]
He was targeting Sasuke and got his lower body because Sasuke was trying to dodge. It's not like he made it any weaker than it was.


[QUOTE=MinatoNamikaze;670112]True, but then you have to admit Itachi wasnt going all out either
Because he got his ass handed to him before he could even whip out anything, just like how his real body would be crushed.


Think about it. very little, vision, smell, touch, hearing, etc, makes it harder to control something.
Itachi had complete control over it. It's senses were dulled down. Itachi had the same reflexes the clone had.



Actaully sasuke only used a shuriken to prevent him from using amateratsu. Itachi then activaed amateratsu again another time succesfully while also countering sasuke katon jutsu with a katon justu of his own meaning he started using another jutsu while already using one. Itahci is praised for having to fastest hand seals in the naruto universe, so he is very fast at casting jutsu, most likely the fastest.
I know what happened. In all the time it took all that to take place Kakashi could nail Itachi with a Kamui or Naruto could waste him with a rasengan.

And you never miss an opportunity to make Itachi better than he is do you :confused:


So your saying samehada only works on naruto mass shadow clone jutsu then?

Samehada eats chakra. Naruto tried to fill the room with Kyuubi chakra and Samehada ate it. There's nothing to suggest it has ever been able to drain chakra from anyone by hitting them with it.

[MinatoNamikaze]

He was targeting Sasuke and got his lower body because Sasuke was trying to dodge. It's not like he made it any weaker than it was.

I said if he used it like in a real fight he would have used it on sasukes head.

Itachi had complete control over it. It's senses were dulled down. Itachi had the same reflexes the clone had.

Yes but plug your ears and close your eyes and have someone throw a baseball at you, try to catch it. Your reflexes are the same but you cant use them effectlvely.

I know what happened. In all the time it took all that to take place Kakashi could nail Itachi with a Kamui or Naruto could waste him with a rasengan.

and Itachi would counter with a clone like he always does

And you never miss an opportunity to make Itachi better than he is do you :confused:

and you never miss an opportunity to tear him down and make him weaker do you:confused:


Samehada eats chakra. Naruto tried to fill the room with Kyuubi chakra and Samehada ate it. There's nothing to suggest it has ever been able to drain chakra from anyone by hitting them with it.

so like I said before it only works on naruto shadow clone jutsu then?

[Muffin]

I said if he used it like in a real fight he would have used it on sasukes head.

It was a real fight.

Yes but plug your ears and close your eyes and have someone throw a baseball at you, try to catch it. Your reflexes are the same but you cant use them effectlvely.
Itachi controlled everything it did. It didn't have any of it senses dulled down. You're just making stuff up now.


and Itachi would counter with a clone like he always does
Itachi didn't use a clone against Sasuke while channeling Amaterasu. Why would against Naruto and Kakashi be any different.



so like I said before it only works on naruto shadow clone jutsu then?

Umm no. I have no idea what the hell your talking about. What the hell does Naruto's shadow clones have to do with Kisame fighting Sasuke and Sakura?

[MinatoNamikaze]

It was a real fight.

When one person losses intentionally its not a real fight (but I forgot you think Itachi lost fairly)

Itachi controlled everything it did. It didn't have any of it senses dulled down. You're just making stuff up now.

Well in your above post you said he did dull his senses. And Im not making it up, its logical. When you have very little energy (almost about to collapse) you dont have the same focus and moving ability

Itachi didn't use a clone against Sasuke while channeling Amaterasu. Why would against Naruto and Kakashi be any different.

Im talking about when he uses other jutsu. Go read the manga and see how amny times he made a clone in the middle of a battle without anyone noticing till after. He did it during the sasuke fight.

Umm no. I have no idea what the hell your talking about. What the hell does Naruto's shadow clones have to do with Kisame fighting Sasuke and Sakura?

I know its a confusing concept. Were talking about how samehada works. You said it only works when one fills the room with chakra, but I countered with "well then it only works on Narutos shadow clone jutsus?"

[Muffin]

When one person losses intentionally its not a real fight (but I forgot you think Itachi lost fairly)
Itachi did everything he could. Sasuke still won. Itachi all out didn't defeat Sasuke.


Well in your above post you said he did dull his senses. And Im not making it up, its logical. When you have very little energy (almost about to collapse) you dont have the same focus and moving ability
No. You were the one saying his senses weren't like normal. They obviously were. The same combo would've worked on the real Itachi. The clone was nowhere near going to collapse it just got it's ass handed to it.


Im talking about when he uses other jutsu. Go read the manga and see how amny times he made a clone in the middle of a battle without anyone noticing till after. He did it during the sasuke fight.

And i'm talking about Amaterasu. You brought it up and said it would kill Kakashi and Naruto when it wouldn't. I said Kamui or Rasengan would splatter Itachi's brains everywhere before he could get it off. Stop trying to get off the point.

I know its a confusing concept. Were talking about how samehada works. You said it only works when one fills the room with chakra, but I countered with "well then it only works on Narutos shadow clone jutsus?"

It's confusing cause you didn't understand how it works and now you're bringing up a completely unrelated topic. Shadow clones would disperse on impact anyway. Samehada only eats raw exposed chakra. Naruto's shadow clones have nothing to do with Kisame getting destroyed by Sakura and Sasuke.

[WhiteFang]

Muffin has justified everything there is to justify.
And to add to that, it would take Sasuke 10 secs to defeat Kisame. Kisame is pathetic against genjutsu. He could not do anything about Kurenei's genjutsu. One genjutsu and its game over for Kisame.
Naruto and Kakashi can already pummel Itachi as stated, and quite soon they will also have a full strength Sakura and nearly full strength Sasuke assisting them.

[hyuga_fan]

Team 7 has gotten incredibly strong. Naruto being able to perform fuuton rasengan, Sai's paintings, AND we can't forget Sakura's healing and strength. Since Itachi is dead he can't have improved.(The afterlife isn't included)

[MinatoNamikaze]

Muffin has justified everything there is to justify.
And to add to that, it would take Sasuke 10 secs to defeat Kisame. Kisame is pathetic against genjutsu. He could not do anything about Kurenei's genjutsu. One genjutsu and its game over for Kisame.
Naruto and Kakashi can already pummel Itachi as stated, and quite soon they will also have a full strength Sakura and nearly full strength Sasuke assisting them.

I suggest reading more than one post next time.

Show us proof Kisame is bad against genjutsu. Kurenai used it on Itachi. Kisame has NEVER faced genjutsu. Besides he is s-class so he wont be bad against it. He will be better than most people actually.

Naruto and kakashi dont stand a chance against Itachi at 100%. Amateratsu on naruto and then 1v1 against kakashi, fights over. Any combination of that would work casue naruto and kakashi have nothing on amateratsu.

Sasuke wouldnt beat kisame that easily and sakura wouldnt stand a chance. They would at least be reduced to 50% after Kisame easy. then its 50% Itachi vs 50% sasuke and sakura and we already know how that turns out.

[WhiteFang]

I suggest reading more than one post next time.

Show us proof Kisame is bad against genjutsu. Kurenai used it on Itachi. Kisame has NEVER faced genjutsu. Besides he is s-class so he wont be bad against it. He will be better than most people actually.

Naruto and kakashi dont stand a chance against Itachi at 100%. Amateratsu on naruto and then 1v1 against kakashi, fights over. Any combination of that would work casue naruto and kakashi have nothing on amateratsu.

Sasuke wouldnt beat kisame that easily and sakura wouldnt stand a chance. They would at least be reduced to 50% after Kisame easy. then its 50% Itachi vs 50% sasuke and sakura and we already know how that turns out.

I did read everything. But maybe you'd like to read one of my previous posts for a justification. However, to make it simpler, I'll give a link:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/141/12/
So here, Kisame gets caught in too. He's helpless. Itachi is the one who does the counter and saves him. So until and unless shown otherwise, Kisame cannot counter genjutsu and that's that.
So Sasuke and Sakura will beat him up, fairly easily.
And I'm amazed that for such a long while you've just been stating that Naruto and Kakashi will get beaten by Itachi.
Seriously, they annihilated 30% Itachi and barely broke a sweat. And that was so long ago. They are so much more stronger now.
Amaterasu, black hole can counter it. And here's a sweet little catch, Amaterasu fires wherever Itachi's eye focuses, one opponent at a time. And look what he's up against, 100's of clones of Naruto and Kakashi and if required, his nin dogs. Seriously, how much can Itachi handle? Each Amaterasu drains him severely. And even against a single opponent i.e. Sasuke, he was barely able to find the time to activate Amaterasu, he only did it when the fireball thing happened and Sasuke still managed to dodge it for a while. And then again that won't work. Kakashi is a very good water tech. user, so there go the fire techs. out the window. And how'll he handle FR, Raikiri, a host of awesome Suiton techs and Doton techs. and Oodama rasengan. And Sasuke and Sakura would be there quite soon to assist. And then its completely game over. It'll be like a cake walk for them.

[Muffin]

Naruto and kakashi dont stand a chance against Itachi at 100%. Amateratsu on naruto and then 1v1 against kakashi, fights over. Any combination of that would work casue naruto and kakashi have nothing on amateratsu.
If it were 1on1 i would say neither Kakashi or Naruto have very good odds at beating Itachi. But that's what teamwork is for. Kakashi is an all-round better shinobi than Itachi. He's the cool headed collective one to help guide Naruto's destructive force towards Itachi. Kakashi won't get caught against something he's encountered once before. Itachi is not the kind of person to change his fighting style and Kakashi will use this to his advantage and destroy Itachi even faster with naruto's new found powers. Let's also not forget Kamui is pretty much > everything Itachi can do. It can suck up Amaterasu, kill him through Susanoo and just generally cause a headache for him.

You are seriously underestimating Kakashi's and Naruto's abilities here.

Sasuke wouldnt beat kisame that easily and sakura wouldnt stand a chance. They would at least be reduced to 50% after Kisame easy. then its 50% Itachi vs 50% sasuke and sakura and we already know how that turns out.

They aren't fighting Kisame alone. They can use team work. Sakura could stall Kisame while Sasuke either uses genjutsu or uses a Kirin to destroy Kisame here. Kisame is stuck against worst possible matches here, with Sasuke's genjutsu mastery and Sakura's dodging skills will leave Kisame in a hole against these two.

[MinatoNamikaze]

If it were 1on1 i would say neither Kakashi or Naruto have very good odds at beating Itachi. But that's what teamwork is for. Kakashi is an all-round better shinobi than Itachi. He's the cool headed collective one to help guide Naruto's destructive force towards Itachi. Kakashi won't get caught against something he's encountered once before. Itachi is not the kind of person to change his fighting style and Kakashi will use this to his advantage and destroy Itachi even faster with naruto's new found powers. Let's also not forget Kamui is pretty much > everything Itachi can do. It can suck up Amaterasu, kill him through Susanoo and just generally cause a headache for him.

You think kakashi is calmer and more collected than ITACHI?

Well kakashi is strained to use his black hole 2 times. Itachi can use his MS up to about 5 times when not at full stregnth

You are seriously underestimating Kakashi's and Naruto's abilities here.

And you seriuosly underestimate Itachis

They aren't fighting Kisame alone. They can use team work. Sakura could stall Kisame while Sasuke either uses genjutsu or uses a Kirin to destroy Kisame here. Kisame is stuck against worst possible matches here, with Sasuke's genjutsu mastery and Sakura's dodging skills will leave Kisame in a hole against these two.

Kisame isint bad against genjutsu. Kurenai cast it against Itachi not Kisame. If she had casted it against kisame Asuma would have killed him.

[Muffin]

You think kakashi is calmer and more collected than ITACHI?

Well kakashi is strained to use his black hole 2 times. Itachi can use his MS up to about 5 times when not at full stregnth

I said Kakashi will keep Naruto focused and will stay calm. I didn't say anything about him being calmer and more collected than Itachi. I said he was all-round better shinobi.

What does the amount of times using Mangekyo have to do with Kakashi and Naruto fighting against itachi? Kakashi only needs to hit once with Kamui and it's over. If Naruto hits Itachi he will die. Your just treading water trying to grab as many useless facts now. Itachi can't beat Kakashi and Naruto.


And you seriuosly underestimate Itachis

Yes because Itachi is the faster than Gai, more advanced than the 4th, Smarter than the entire Nara clan combined and can destroy the world if he wanted to.


Kisame isint bad against genjutsu. Kurenai cast it against Itachi not Kisame. If she had casted it against kisame Asuma would have killed him.

Are you forgetting how good Sasuke is at Genjutsu? He's just as good as Itachi at Genjutsu. He doesn't even really need to rely on it heavily. Kirin will end Kisame as long as Sakura keeps him occupied long enough.

[MinatoNamikaze]

I said Kakashi will keep Naruto focused and will stay calm. I didn't say anything about him being calmer and more collected than Itachi. I said he was all-round better shinobi.

Hes certainly not an allround better shinobi. Itachi was a captin in ANBU at 12 and has the real sharingan. Kakashi was only jounin at 12

What does the amount of times using Mangekyo have to do with Kakashi and Naruto fighting against itachi? Kakashi only needs to hit once with Kamui and it's over. If Naruto hits Itachi he will die. Your just treading water trying to grab as many useless facts now. Itachi can't beat Kakashi and Naruto.

Itachi just needs a clone and kakashi black hole wont work

Yes because Itachi is the faster than Gai, more advanced than the 4th, Smarter than the entire Nara clan combined and can destroy the world if he wanted to.

well now that you mention it... lol jk. Hes not a God, but he is definelty in teh top 5 shinobi ever.

Are you forgetting how good Sasuke is at Genjutsu? He's just as good as Itachi at Genjutsu. He doesn't even really need to rely on it heavily. Kirin will end Kisame as long as Sakura keeps him occupied long enough.

hes nowhere near as good as Itahci with Genjutsu.


But any way heres what I have to say


Weve been argueing about figths with Itahci for months now. I say that we stop argueing about Itachi vs ? and other close fights with itachi because lets face it, none of use are going to back down. we all have our opinion and were not changing each others and bad blood is starting to form between us. I am willing to settle for a tie in this Itachi fight. What do you guys say?

[Muffin]

Hes certainly not an allround better shinobi. Itachi was a captin in ANBU at 12 and has the real sharingan. Kakashi was only jounin at 12

Kakashi is smarter, has a wider arsenal of abilities and there is certainly noone better around than he is when it comes to team work. What does Itachi have to use that'll compltely nullify both Naruto and Itachi? list your attacks Itachi will have to beat them with and i'll enlighten you as to why Naruto and Kakashi won't lose ;)


Itachi just needs a clone and kakashi black hole wont work

How does that stop Kakashi's Kamui?


well now that you mention it... lol jk. Hes not a God, but he is definelty in teh top 5 shinobi ever.

No.


hes nowhere near as good as Itahci with Genjutsu.
Oh he is. What has Itachi shown that makes him so much better than Sasuke now?


But any way heres what I have to say

If you can't think of enough arguments to back your point then concede and admit Itachi and Kisame will lose to team 7.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Kakashi is smarter, has a wider arsenal of abilities and there is certainly noone better around than he is when it comes to team work. What does Itachi have to use that'll compltely nullify both Naruto and Itachi? list your attacks Itachi will have to beat them with and i'll enlighten you as to why Naruto and Kakashi won't lose ;)

lol smarter than Itachi.:lmao: Itachi too has a sharingan and has acces to all the jutsu hes ever faced as kakashi does. He just doesnt use them casue his techs are good enough

How does that stop Kakashi's Kamui?

A clone woudl make kakashi suck up the wrong one.

Oh he is. What has Itachi shown that makes him so much better than Sasuke now?

The fact that sasuke doesnt use genjutsu.

If you can't think of enough arguments to back your point then concede and admit Itachi and Kisame will lose to team 7.

I have plenty of arguments. im just tired of these debates becasue we keep going over the same things. Im satisfies with a tie. regardless im done argueing here cause neither pf us are going to back down or gain any ground, were too stubborn:D

Ill ses you around

[Muffin]

lol smarter than Itachi.:lmao: Itachi too has a sharingan and has acces to all the jutsu hes ever faced as kakashi does. He just doesnt use them casue his techs are good enough
Kakashi is damn brilliant and just an all-round genius. Itachi doesn't have the same versatility as Kakashi because he doesn't have the elemental affinity to use all the techniques he's encountered. He doesn't use them because he simply cannot he doesn't have the chakra to fight a long drawn out battle, whereas Kakashi's smarts and versatility is what will make him last so much longer. With Naruto there Itachi will be at his wits end to take out both in near endless attack combinations.

A clone woudl make kakashi suck up the wrong one.
I don't think Kakashi won't notice Itachi making a bushin. The only reason a bushin worked the first time is because he distracted Kakashi's attention with the throwing stars and Kakashi still picked up on the attack.


The fact that sasuke doesnt use genjutsu.
Sure cause it's not like he's been using genjutsu in every single fight he's had since the time skip. And was even going toe to toe with Itachi.


I have plenty of arguments. im just tired of these debates becasue we keep going over the same things. Im satisfies with a tie. regardless im done argueing here cause neither pf us are going to back down or gain any ground, were too stubborn:D

Ill ses you around

If you have plenty of arguments post them. If your right you should be able to prove it with sufficient evidence. Otherwise admit your wrong and that Team 7 would win.

[rush rush]

Kakashi is damn brilliant and just an all-round genius. Itachi doesn't have the same versatility as Kakashi because he doesn't have the elemental affinity to use all the techniques he's encountered. He doesn't use them because he simply cannot he doesn't have the chakra to fight a long drawn out battle, whereas Kakashi's smarts and versatility is what will make him last so much longer. With Naruto there Itachi will be at his wits end to take out both in near endless attack combinations.

im sorry if a mis took you but if your saying Naruto and Kakashi olone can kill Itachi then wow just wow!I say this because Itachi was up against 1. Choyi a smart experienced puppet master 2. Kakashi a smart also experienced person with a ton of jutsu with the mangekou sharingan 3. Sakura by the way was trying her best in the fight with Itachi in 30 percent sakura is a super strength girl with a few jutsu 4. Naruto and he was also giving it his all during the battle with Itachi Naruto is the son of Minato and has an evolved for of the legendary technique the rasenagan and a few other jutsu.So lets wrap this all up if Itachi fought all those strong ninja with 30 percent chakra with no effort put in to it and Naruto and Sakura were giving it they're all so yeah they finnaly beat him but that just shows how strong he is!

[Muffin]

im sorry if a mis took you but if your saying Naruto and Kakashi olone can kill Itachi then wow just wow!I say this because Itachi was up against 1. Choyi a smart experienced puppet master 2. Kakashi a smart also experienced person with a ton of jutsu with the mangekou sharingan 3. Sakura by the way was trying her best in the fight with Itachi in 30 percent sakura is a super strength girl with a few jutsu 4. Naruto and he was also giving it his all during the battle with Itachi Naruto is the son of Minato and has an evolved for of the legendary technique the rasenagan and a few other jutsu.So lets wrap this all up if Itachi fought all those strong ninja with 30 percent chakra with no effort put in to it and Naruto and Sakura were giving it they're all so yeah they finnaly beat him but that just shows how strong he is!

They weren't giving their all. Kakashi used a whopping 2 techniques. Naruto only used one (two if your counting the shadow clone for Oodama rasengan). Sakura and Chiyo just watched. Itachi at 30% was destroyed with little to no effort by Kakashi and Naruto. Now Naruto and Kakashi have only gotten stronger. It will be over even quicker than the first fight was.

[Smiley]

I agree with Muffin on this one.
MS Sasuke is at least on Itachi's level and can beat (or tie with) him.

Others can most likely defeat Kisame.
With Kakashi's kamui now being an instant, add Naruto and Sasuke on his side and Kisame is dead.

[MinatoNamikaze]

I dont think sasuke is quite on Itachis level yet though. I think hell get there not becasue he has more natural talent but becase he wont have a disease, has gone through an intesive training regime, still has the oportunity to train, has MS, and his MS wont make him go blind for a long time casue he just got it. That being said, if you allowed each of them to train equally and not have Itahci have his disease, Itachi would easily beat sasuke

The reason I think itahci is still stronger now, its becasue he is smarter and more cunning than sasuke. Thats a huge advantage.

[Muffin]

I dont think sasuke is quite on Itachis level yet though. I think hell get there not becasue he has more natural talent but becase he wont have a disease, has gone through an intesive training regime, still has the oportunity to train, has MS, and his MS wont make him go blind for a long time casue he just got it. That being said, if you allowed each of them to train equally and not have Itahci have his disease, Itachi would easily beat sasuke

The reason I think itahci is still stronger now, its becasue he is smarter and more cunning than sasuke. Thats a huge advantage.

What does that have to do with Itachi and Kisame vs team 7?

Sasuke is equal to Itachi or even better now. Naruto and Kakashi could easily handle Itachi. Kisame would be destroyed by Sakura and Sasuke.

[MinatoNamikaze]

What does that have to do with Itachi and Kisame vs team 7?

nothing just stating my opinon on what was said.

Sasuke is equal to Itachi or even better now.

IYO

Naruto and Kakashi could easily handle Itachi. Kisame would be destroyed by Sakura and Sasuke.

IYO


Now that none of us are posting any relavent arguments, I say we just leave this thread alone now. WHat do you say?

[SpaceRazorz]

What does that have to do with Itachi and Kisame vs team 7?

Sasuke is equal to Itachi or even better now. Naruto and Kakashi could easily handle Itachi. Kisame would be destroyed by Sakura and Sasuke.

All your statements so far have been stupid. Itachi was NOT going all-out against Sasuke. This was stated in the MANGA. Kishimoto's word > Your word. It was stated Itachi only used his best attacks to drive Sasuke to a corner, so Orochimaru would come out and Itachi could get rid of the Cursed Seal for him.

If Itachi was going all-out, he would've sealed Sasuke with Susanoo like he did to Orochimaru. But no. He came out and transferred his powers to Sasuke to save him. Face it. Sasuke barely defeated a handicapped, half-blind, and ill Itachi.

How can Kakashi and Naruto handle Itachi? How many episodes did it take for Kakashi to bring up the chakra needed for his Mangekyou Sharingan against Deidara? You say Amaterasu is slow, when you know crap about Kakashi's speed. And even if Kakashi managed to bring out the Mangekyou Sharingan, what's he going to do then? He can't aim his Mangekyou Sharingan well, and Itachi is one of the fastest characters in Naruto. Same for Naruto. Naruto's attacks are all close-ranged. An Amaterasu or a Tsukuyomi would do it. And even if Naruto somehow managed to run to Itachi with a Rasengan, Itachi would bring out Susanoo.

And Itachi can bring out Susanoo faster than the speed of light, as he summoned it in time to dodge Kirin. Kisame could also go inside Susanoo too. Then he would seal all of team 7 up.

And don't underestimate Kisame. 30% Kisame pushed Gai to 6 gates. Samehada eats chakra. And the guy has massive chakra. 30% Kisame could already make a lake come out of his mouth. He could then go inside the lake and stab Sakura from underneath. Now, Sasuke would be a problem, but then Itachi would come in and hypotise them, burn them, or seal them with his Mangekyou Sharingan techniques.

[Muffin]

Now that none of us are posting any relavent arguments, I say we just leave this thread alone now. WHat do you say?
No. If you can't find relevant information to provide why you think Kisame and Itachi can win, then just admit your wrong.

All your statements so far have been stupid. Itachi was NOT going all-out against Sasuke. This was stated in the MANGA. Kishimoto's word > Your word. It was stated Itachi only used his best attacks to drive Sasuke to a corner, so Orochimaru would come out and Itachi could get rid of the Cursed Seal for him.

If Itachi was going all-out, he would've sealed Sasuke with Susanoo like he did to Orochimaru. But no. He came out and transferred his powers to Sasuke to save him. Face it. Sasuke barely defeated a handicapped, half-blind, and ill Itachi.
Itachi was going all-out. He was pushed to his limit when he needed to pull out Susanoo to keep fighting. If he sealed Sasuke he would've died anyway. Sasuke beat Itachi. Sasuke can beat Itachi even easier now. He can do everything Itachi can do and has other techniques he can use.

How can Kakashi and Naruto handle Itachi? How many episodes did it take for Kakashi to bring up the chakra needed for his Mangekyou Sharingan against Deidara? You say Amaterasu is slow, when you know crap about Kakashi's speed. And even if Kakashi managed to bring out the Mangekyou Sharingan, what's he going to do then? He can't aim his Mangekyou Sharingan well, and Itachi is one of the fastest characters in Naruto. Same for Naruto. Naruto's attacks are all close-ranged. An Amaterasu or a Tsukuyomi would do it. And even if Naruto somehow managed to run to Itachi with a Rasengan, Itachi would bring out Susanoo.

And Itachi can bring out Susanoo faster than the speed of light, as he summoned it in time to dodge Kirin. Kisame could also go inside Susanoo too. Then he would seal all of team 7 up.
Kakashi and Naruto can handle Itachi because they already have. They crushed the Itachi clone clone without any effort when the clone could do everything Itachi can. All your argument is based on is Susanoo. It's not going to work against Kakashi and Naruto. Kakashi can activate his Mangekyo instantly. If Kakashi is pushed into Kamui Itachi has nothing on it. Tsukiyomi will just end up with him having his face being destroyed, Amaterasu will be sucked up by it, and it would kill him through Susanoo.

And don't underestimate Kisame. 30% Kisame pushed Gai to 6 gates. Samehada eats chakra. And the guy has massive chakra. 30% Kisame could already make a lake come out of his mouth. He could then go inside the lake and stab Sakura from underneath. Now, Sasuke would be a problem, but then Itachi would come in and hypotise them, burn them, or seal them with his Mangekyou Sharingan techniques.

Gai only used the gates to save Ten Ten because she was running out of breath. How is Sakura not going to see Kisame coming from under the lake if he tries to stab her? Kisame has nothing to defend himself against Kirin he will die even easier than Itachi will. Before you start calling someones posts stupid maybe you should actually put a line of thought into your posts.

[SpaceRazorz]

No. If you can't find relevant information to provide why you think Kisame and Itachi can win, then just admit your wrong.


Itachi was going all-out. He was pushed to his limit when he needed to pull out Susanoo to keep fighting. If he sealed Sasuke he would've died anyway. Sasuke beat Itachi. Sasuke can beat Itachi even easier now. He can do everything Itachi can do and has other techniques he can use.


Kakashi and Naruto can handle Itachi because they already have. They crushed the Itachi clone clone without any effort when the clone could do everything Itachi can. All your argument is based on is Susanoo. It's not going to work against Kakashi and Naruto. Kakashi can activate his Mangekyo instantly. If Kakashi is pushed into Kamui Itachi has nothing on it. Tsukiyomi will just end up with him having his face being destroyed, Amaterasu will be sucked up by it, and it would kill him through Susanoo.



Gai only used the gates to save Ten Ten because she was running out of breath. How is Sakura not going to see Kisame coming from under the lake if he tries to stab her? Kisame has nothing to defend himself against Kirin he will die even easier than Itachi will. Before you start calling someones posts stupid maybe you should actually put a line of thought into your posts.

Can't you understand? It was stated in the damn MANGA that he wasn't going all-out.

Yes, I know Itachi was going to die anyway due to his disease. So what's your point? What does that have to do with his obvious chance to kill Sasuke then? Stop being irrevelant. His chance to seal Sasuke came before he died, so if he wanted to kill him, he would've. His illness and killing Sasuke are two different things. If he wanted to kill Sasuke, why not kill him and then die himself? That would obviously be better than not killing Sasuke and just dieing. In fact, if he was really serious, he could've summoned Susanoo in the beginning, sealed Sasuke, and hurried to take more medicine so he wouldn't die after. Your logic is failed. "Oh, I'm going to die anyway, so let's just skip my chance to kill him and die instead of taking him with me, even though I was really trying to kill him." Itachi doesn't think like that.

Give me proof that Sasuke can do everything Itachi could do and he has his own techniques as well. All we've seen so far from him is Amaterasu. We've never even received a hint yet that he has Tsukuyomi or Susanoo. Even when he was talking with Madara, Madara said that Itachi cared for Sasuke so much that he even made Amaterasu activate when he saw Madara's Sharingan. There was no mention of any other technique.

The clone was 30% of his real power, and furthermore, the clone couldn't even use Mangekyou Sharingan. Do everything that Itachi did? Ha! The clone stated himself that he can't use Mangekyou Sharingan when he was using the crow genjutsu on Naruto. And the Mangekyou Sharingan is his main source of power besides his speed. Stop trying to degrade Itachi.

No, Kakashi CANNOT activate it instantly. Go back and watch Naruto & Kakashi vs Deidara. While they were chasing Deidara's bird, the whole time, Kakashi was holding his fingers in that seal and gathering chakra to activate it. Itachi, on the other hand, CAN activate it instantly.

You keep ignoring my comments. HOW can Kakashi get Itachi with his Mangekyou Sharingan? He fails at aiming it properly, and Itachi's speed is of the highest league in Naruto. He barely got Deidara, and Itachi is 10x faster than Deidara. Furthermore, Kakashi can only use it 3 times until he has no chakra left. Susanoo or Amaterasu will get Kakashi before he can even bring his Mangekyou Sharingan out.

Yes, which just proves even more how strong he is, because he handled Team Gai with ease at 30%. What? How is Sakura not going to see him comnig underneath? It's supposed to be the opposite. How IS Sakura going to see him coming underneath? Team Gai could only see him coming because of Neji's Byakugan. Does anyone in Team Kakashi have Byakugan? No.

When Sasuke is about to use Kirin, Itachi can activate Susanoo. And it's giant, so it would be able to shield Kisame as well.

So yes, your posts are stupid. I have to put a line of thought into my posts? Ha! Look at you! It was stated in the MANGA Itachi wasn't going all-out. You're trying to argue directly against Kishimoto's word, who is the author of Naruto! Put a line of thought into YOUR posts.

[Muffin]

Can't you understand? It was stated in the damn MANGA that he wasn't going all-out.

Yes, I know Itachi was going to die anyway due to his disease. So what's your point? What does that have to do with his obvious chance to kill Sasuke then? Stop being irrevelant. His chance to seal Sasuke came before he died, so if he wanted to kill him, he would've. His illness and killing Sasuke are two different things. If he wanted to kill Sasuke, why not kill him and then die himself? That would obviously be better than not killing Sasuke and just dieing. In fact, if he was really serious, he could've summoned Susanoo in the beginning, sealed Sasuke, and hurried to take more medicine so he wouldn't die after. Your logic is failed. "Oh, I'm going to die anyway, so let's just skip my chance to kill him and die instead of taking him with me, even though I was really trying to kill him." Itachi doesn't think like that.

So you don't consider Itachi trying to kill Sasuke, using all his most powerful techniques one after another not going all out? Itachi was trying to kill Sasuke, he wouldn't have tried to incinerate Sasuke's body with Amaterasu if he wasn't. Itachi wouldn't use Susanoo at the beginning because noone in the history of manga has ever started with their most powerful move. Itachi would have died anyway if he used Susanoo on Sasuke which would've ended in one of two ways. Sasuke wins (like he did) or draw. Either instance Itachi doesn't win.

Give me proof that Sasuke can do everything Itachi could do and he has his own techniques as well. All we've seen so far from him is Amaterasu. We've never even received a hint yet that he has Tsukuyomi or Susanoo. Even when he was talking with Madara, Madara said that Itachi cared for Sasuke so much that he even made Amaterasu activate when he saw Madara's Sharingan. There was no mention of any other technique.
What the hell do you mean no hint of Tsukiyomi? He's been using a technique similar to Tsukiyomi the first time we saw him use his Mangekyo so either you are completely blind or just ignoring a few things. Sasuke hasn't even revealed his last Mangekyo techniques so he can do everything Itachi can.

The clone was 30% of his real power, and furthermore, the clone couldn't even use Mangekyou Sharingan. Do everything that Itachi did? Ha! The clone stated himself that he can't use Mangekyou Sharingan when he was using the crow genjutsu on Naruto. And the Mangekyou Sharingan is his main source of power besides his speed. Stop trying to degrade Itachi.
The clone only couldn't mangekyo inside normal genjutsu just like Itachi. He did try to use Tsukiyomi against Kakashi's shadow clone so please reread the fight before you go making a fool of yourself trying to prove me wrong. Itachi would've been crushed just like the clone was. He wouldn't even get the chance to use his techniques.

No, Kakashi CANNOT activate it instantly. Go back and watch Naruto & Kakashi vs Deidara. While they were chasing Deidara's bird, the whole time, Kakashi was holding his fingers in that seal and gathering chakra to activate it. Itachi, on the other hand, CAN activate it instantly.
Linky clinky. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/11/) Kakashi can activate it instantly.

You keep ignoring my comments. HOW can Kakashi get Itachi with his Mangekyou Sharingan? He fails at aiming it properly, and Itachi's speed is of the highest league in Naruto. He barely got Deidara, and Itachi is 10x faster than Deidara. Furthermore, Kakashi can only use it 3 times until he has no chakra left. Susanoo or Amaterasu will get Kakashi before he can even bring his Mangekyou Sharingan out.
Itachi's hand seals are fast not his actual speed. Itachi can only use his own mangekyo 3 times before being out of chakra as well so your point fails, besides Kakashi only needs to hit once. All Kakashi needs to someone like Naruto or his nin-dogs to grab and hold Itachi. Kakashi can activate his instantly the idea of Kakashi using his own is just as plausible as Itachi using Susanoo or Amaterasu.

Yes, which just proves even more how strong he is, because he handled Team Gai with ease at 30%. What? How is Sakura not going to see him comnig underneath? It's supposed to be the opposite. How IS Sakura going to see him coming underneath? Team Gai could only see him coming because of Neji's Byakugan. Does anyone in Team Kakashi have Byakugan? No.
How strong he is? He was man handled and destroyed by Gai once he decided to stop screwing around. And how will Sakura miss Kisame coming from under water? It's freaking water! Unless you haven't noticed it's clear which means you can see through it. The only time he went underwater was when he kept getting beat down. He never even went underwater to attack so just actually say something relevant.

When Sasuke is about to use Kirin, Itachi can activate Susanoo. And it's giant, so it would be able to shield Kisame as well.
Can you prove it? Or are you just making up crap because you can't think of actual evidence as to how Kisame will defend against Kirin

So yes, your posts are stupid. I have to put a line of thought into my posts? Ha! Look at you! It was stated in the MANGA Itachi wasn't going all-out. You're trying to argue directly against Kishimoto's word, who is the author of Naruto! Put a line of thought into YOUR posts.

Next time you come into a topic calling someone stupid because you don't agree with them make sure you actually have done some research into your posts. Your just saying i'm wrong and that i haven't done any research when your just making ridiculous assumptions.

[SpaceRazorz]

So you don't consider Itachi trying to kill Sasuke, using all his most powerful techniques one after another not going all out? Itachi was trying to kill Sasuke, he wouldn't have tried to incinerate Sasuke's body with Amaterasu if he wasn't. Itachi wouldn't use Susanoo at the beginning because noone in the history of manga has ever started with their most powerful move. Itachi would have died anyway if he used Susanoo on Sasuke which would've ended in one of two ways. Sasuke wins (like he did) or draw. Either instance Itachi doesn't win.


What the hell do you mean no hint of Tsukiyomi? He's been using a technique similar to Tsukiyomi the first time we saw him use his Mangekyo so either you are completely blind or just ignoring a few things. Sasuke hasn't even revealed his last Mangekyo techniques so he can do everything Itachi can.


The clone only couldn't mangekyo inside normal genjutsu just like Itachi. He did try to use Tsukiyomi against Kakashi's shadow clone so please reread the fight before you go making a fool of yourself trying to prove me wrong. Itachi would've been crushed just like the clone was. He wouldn't even get the chance to use his techniques.


Linky clinky. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/396/11/) Kakashi can activate it instantly.


Itachi's hand seals are fast not his actual speed. Itachi can only use his own mangekyo 3 times before being out of chakra as well so your point fails, besides Kakashi only needs to hit once. All Kakashi needs to someone like Naruto or his nin-dogs to grab and hold Itachi. Kakashi can activate his instantly the idea of Kakashi using his own is just as plausible as Itachi using Susanoo or Amaterasu.


How strong he is? He was man handled and destroyed by Gai once he decided to stop screwing around. And how will Sakura miss Kisame coming from under water? It's freaking water! Unless you haven't noticed it's clear which means you can see through it. The only time he went underwater was when he kept getting beat down. He never even went underwater to attack so just actually say something relevant.


Can you prove it? Or are you just making up crap because you can't think of actual evidence as to how Kisame will defend against Kirin



Next time you come into a topic calling someone stupid because you don't agree with them make sure you actually have done some research into your posts. Your just saying i'm wrong and that i haven't done any research when your just making ridiculous assumptions.

Stop trying to fight against the manga. I already told you that he only used his best attacks to drive Sasuke into a corner, allowing Orochimaru to come out, so Itachi could get rid of him for Sasuke. Gosh, you can't read. It was also stated in the manga that had Itachi been serious, Itachi would've won. You know what? Go read the manga. Because your statements are exactly the same ones that Sasuke used when he was talking to Madara. You'll find all the answers there, and you'll also see how I'm right. And also, even if Itachi would've died anyway, it's better than just dying by yourself. If Itachi was actually wanting to kill Sasuke, like you claim, this would've been the case.

Let's say you are suffering from a disease that will kill you in exactly 10 minutes. You're enjoying your last moments with your family, when suddenly you hear someone break into the house. You look and he has a gun. So when he's not looking, you sneak into the kitchen and get the knife. You know you'll be gone, but you want the rest of your family to live. He hasn't seen you yet, but he's spotted the others. He's walking towards them, but you get the opportunity to sneak behind him. Will you sneak up and stab him and die happily, knowing that your family will live, or will you just think, "Eh, I'm going to die anyway. Either way, I don't win. So let's just stay here,"? Use logic before you say some crap.

When has Sasuke used Tsukuyomi? Give me the page from OneManga.

"Sasuke hasn't even revealed his last Mangekyo techniques so he can do everything Itachi can,"? Huh? What the hell of a kind of logic is that?

Tsukuyomi on Kakashi's shadow clone? :lmao: I'm laughing so hard now. YOU re-read the fight instead of making a fool of yourself. In Tsukuyomi, there is a red moon. But no, we never saw a moon there. And in the picture, if you look at Itachi's eyes, it's not in the Mangekyou Sharingan form.

Like you said, re-read the fight before you make a fool out of yourself to prove me wrong. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/08/)

Okay, I'll admit I'm wrong on that, but so then what? Kakashi still can't aim well. He barely got Deidara whereas Itachi is many times faster than Deidara.

Wrong. He used Tsukuyomi once on Sasuke, Amaterasu 2-3 times (forgot) and then Susanoo. And even then, he was half-blind and very ill. So normally, Itachi should probably be able to use it about 5-6 times. And again, how will Kakashi get him? His aim is horrible and Itachi is fast. Also, you got things opposite again. Kakashi doesn't need to hit once. Otherwise, why isn't Deidara dead? Itachi is the one that only needs one hit. It was stated that Tsukuyomi could kill you. Amaterasu can burn through your whole body. One hit from Susanoo seals you up.

Yes, he pushed Gai to 6/8 gates, which is a lot. The real Kisame is over 3 times more powerful than the clone. It would just damage the real Kisame, but not kill him, whereas Gai would be totally exhausted. Anyhow, even if Kisame somehow dies in this, that would leave them easy meat for Itachi.

And yet, in the world of Naruto, water is blue. If what you say is true, why can't you see through all the water jutsus?

Huh? How is that not relevant? It's true. He could either stab her or use another water technique from beneath. Yes, he's never attacked people above the water from beneath, but how does that mean he can't? Unlike something like Naruto using a fire jutsu, you know Kisame can stab somebody from under even if he's never done it. Use common sense.

Again, there's no need for proof here. Just common sense. We know Itachi can summon Susanoo in time to defend against Kirin. And we know that he can control Susanoo. So he can just order it to shield Kisame as well.

Research? Ha! Because of you, I actually went to OneManga and looked at the chapter where Itachi uses the genjutsu on Kakashi's shadow clone, because you claimed that to be Tsukuyomi. It turns out you were wrong, and to boot, you said I was making a fool out of myself. Do YOUR research and stop trying to argue against the author's word. You can never beat Kishimoto's word. He's the creator of the Naruto world.

[Muffin]

Stop trying to fight against the manga. I already told you that he only used his best attacks to drive Sasuke into a corner, allowing Orochimaru to come out, so Itachi could get rid of him for Sasuke. Gosh, you can't read. It was also stated in the manga that had Itachi been serious, Itachi would've won. You know what? Go read the manga. Because your statements are exactly the same ones that Sasuke used when he was talking to Madara. You'll find all the answers there, and you'll also see how I'm right. And also, even if Itachi would've died anyway, it's better than just dying by yourself. If Itachi was actually wanting to kill Sasuke, like you claim, this would've been the case. Yet he was still trying to kill Sasuke. Amaterasu would've killed him. If i can't read then you obviously can't even make out pictures. The only time Itachi let up at all was using Susanoo, which against 4 people who are are constantly moving will not help him at all. He'll be lucky to get one of them afterwards he'll still die.

Let's say you are suffering from a disease that will kill you in exactly 10 minutes. You're enjoying your last moments with your family, when suddenly you hear someone break into the house. You look and he has a gun. So when he's not looking, you sneak into the kitchen and get the knife. You know you'll be gone, but you want the rest of your family to live. He hasn't seen you yet, but he's spotted the others. He's walking towards them, but you get the opportunity to sneak behind him. Will you sneak up and stab him and die happily, knowing that your family will live, or will you just think, "Eh, I'm going to die anyway. Either way, I don't win. So let's just stay here,"? Use logic before you say some crap.
I don't even want to know how long it took you to write that completely irrelevant garbage.

When has Sasuke used Tsukuyomi? Give me the page from OneManga.
I didn't say it was Tsukiyomi i said it was similiar. notice it even comes out of a particular eye as Tsukiyomi. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/03/)


Tsukuyomi on Kakashi's shadow clone? :lmao: I'm laughing so hard now. YOU re-read the fight instead of making a fool of yourself. In Tsukuyomi, there is a red moon. But no, we never saw a moon there. And in the picture, if you look at Itachi's eyes, it's not in the Mangekyou Sharingan form.

Like you said, re-read the fight before you make a fool out of yourself to prove me wrong. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/08/)

There was no red moon when he used Tsukiyomi against Sasuke either. If it wasn't Tsukiyomi please explain why it required direct eye contact and created an illusion where Itachi controls all matter. Think about it next time junior.

Okay, I'll admit I'm wrong on that, but so then what? Kakashi still can't aim well. He barely got Deidara whereas Itachi is many times faster than Deidara.
Can you prove Itachi is faster than Deidara at all? Sasuke fought them both and Deidara kept up with Sasuke just as well as Itachi did.

Wrong. He used Tsukuyomi once on Sasuke, Amaterasu 2-3 times (forgot) and then Susanoo. And even then, he was half-blind and very ill. So normally, Itachi should probably be able to use it about 5-6 times. And again, how will Kakashi get him? His aim is horrible and Itachi is fast. Also, you got things opposite again. Kakashi doesn't need to hit once. Otherwise, why isn't Deidara dead? Itachi is the one that only needs one hit. It was stated that Tsukuyomi could kill you. Amaterasu can burn through your whole body. One hit from Susanoo seals you up.
He used his mangekyo 3 times (Tsukiyomi once and Amaterasu twice) then flat out admitted he was out of chakra. 3 times is his maximum. One hit from Kamui in a vital area will kill Itachi, unless you think Itachi is so powerful he doesn't need a body to fight. When did someone say Tsukiyomi could kill someone? It's never killed anyone until proven otherwise it can't.

Yes, he pushed Gai to 6/8 gates, which is a lot. The real Kisame is over 3 times more powerful than the clone. It would just damage the real Kisame, but not kill him, whereas Gai would be totally exhausted. Anyhow, even if Kisame somehow dies in this, that would leave them easy meat for Itachi.
Prove that Kisame would be able to survive the flaming peacock. The real Kisame would die just as easily as the clone would. And like i said how will Kisame defend against Kirin? Sakura just needs to stall him while Sasuke channels Kirin and annihilates Kisame leaving them plenty ripe to fight on.

And yet, in the world of Naruto, water is blue. If what you say is true, why can't you see through all the water jutsus?

Huh? How is that not relevant? It's true. He could either stab her or use another water technique from beneath. Yes, he's never attacked people above the water from beneath, but how does that mean he can't? Unlike something like Naruto using a fire jutsu, you know Kisame can stab somebody from under even if he's never done it. Use common sense.
I could ask you to use common sense. How is Kisame who is an overwhelming powerhouse going to hit Sakura? Someone who is trained to dodge any and all attacks coming her way. When he goes under water she can still just dodge him.

Again, there's no need for proof here. Just common sense. We know Itachi can summon Susanoo in time to defend against Kirin. And we know that he can control Susanoo. So he can just order it to shield Kisame as well.
There's no proof because you have none. Your just going on what you think would happen without anything to back up your arguments. Besides Sasuke's big speech did have something to do with Itachi getting his defence ready.

Research? Ha! Because of you, I actually went to OneManga and looked at the chapter where Itachi uses the genjutsu on Kakashi's shadow clone, because you claimed that to be Tsukuyomi. It turns out you were wrong, and to boot, you said I was making a fool out of myself. Do YOUR research and stop trying to argue against the author's word. You can never beat Kishimoto's word. He's the creator of the Naruto world.

You are making a fool of yourself. Claiming i am wrong when you're just spouting crap and calling them facts. You are obviously overlooking alot of things here and just plain being annoying.

[SpaceRazorz]

Yet he was still trying to kill Sasuke. Amaterasu would've killed him. If i can't read then you obviously can't even make out pictures. The only time Itachi let up at all was using Susanoo, which against 4 people who are are constantly moving will not help him at all. He'll be lucky to get one of them afterwards he'll still die.


I don't even want to know how long it took you to write that completely irrelevant garbage.


I didn't say it was Tsukiyomi i said it was similiar. notice it even comes out of a particular eye as Tsukiyomi. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/408/03/)


There was no red moon when he used Tsukiyomi against Sasuke either. If it wasn't Tsukiyomi please explain why it required direct eye contact and created an illusion where Itachi controls all matter. Think about it next time junior.


Can you prove Itachi is faster than Deidara at all? Sasuke fought them both and Deidara kept up with Sasuke just as well as Itachi did.


He used his mangekyo 3 times (Tsukiyomi once and Amaterasu twice) then flat out admitted he was out of chakra. 3 times is his maximum. One hit from Kamui in a vital area will kill Itachi, unless you think Itachi is so powerful he doesn't need a body to fight. When did someone say Tsukiyomi could kill someone? It's never killed anyone until proven otherwise it can't.


Prove that Kisame would be able to survive the flaming peacock. The real Kisame would die just as easily as the clone would. And like i said how will Kisame defend against Kirin? Sakura just needs to stall him while Sasuke channels Kirin and annihilates Kisame leaving them plenty ripe to fight on.


I could ask you to use common sense. How is Kisame who is an overwhelming powerhouse going to hit Sakura? Someone who is trained to dodge any and all attacks coming her way. When he goes under water she can still just dodge him.


There's no proof because you have none. Your just going on what you think would happen without anything to back up your arguments. Besides Sasuke's big speech did have something to do with Itachi getting his defence ready.



You are making a fool of yourself. Claiming i am wrong when you're just spouting crap and calling them facts. You are obviously overlooking alot of things here and just plain being annoying.

I can't read? :lmao: You're the one who obviously can't read. "Amaterasu would've killed Sasuke." That's the exact same argument that Sasuke put up against Tobi. Go read the manga. Your failure is proved here. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/01/) And here. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/02/) Susanoo's sword has no real physical form. So they have nothing to defend themselves. They can't just run forever. They'll be caught eventually. And if they leave the battlefield, then Itachi and Kisame basically win by default.

Irrevelant? Yes, I know it is. I was comparing that to when you said Itachi didn't seal Sasuke because he was going to die anyway. (What the hell?) Because obviously, if you were the guy in my story, you would stab him even if you knew you were going to die. The way you think, if you know you're going to die, you're not supposed to still try to beat your enemy, since either way, you don't win. So yes, when you said it was irrevelant, you basically agreed with me, saying your own crap is irrevelant. Thank you for helping me.

Edit: Oh, what do you know! I was typing this up and then the newest Bleach chapter came out. This one helps me even more. You said Itachi didn't seal Sasuke because he was going to die anyway, so either way, he doesn't really win, right? Well, let's see what Iba has to say. "If you want to fight, you've got to win, even if you die. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/328/14/) If Itachi wanted to kill Sasuke, this would've been the case. This is why your logic fails.

If you meant that, then it was irrevelant. Yes, it's similar, but they never confirmed that it was the real Tsukuyomi. Plus, how does this confirm that Sasuke can do anything Itachi could?

Yes, there was no moon when he used it on Sasuke, but that time, Itachi already activated his Mangekyou Sharingan before, so he could activate it. But in the fight against team 7, when did he activate his Mangekyou Sharingan? Give me the manga scan. And plus, even when he was inside the genjutsu, Itachi's Sharingan eyes are normal. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/08/) YOU think about it next time, junior. Eye contact? Tsukuyomi isn't the ONLY genjutsu that needs eye contact to work, idiot. Control the matter? You can do that in almost every genjutsu, idiot.

Deidara was keeping up with Sasuke? :lmao: Here Tobi says that Sasuke is too fast for them. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/10/) Here Deidara barely keeps up with him, and on the next page, he has a cut on his shoulder. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/13/) Here Deidara SAYS that Sasuke is too fast, which is why he asked Tobi to put those mines down to try to slow him down. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/15/) Itachi actually keeped up with Sasuke, and even then, he wasn't going all-out, and he was half-blind and was ill. So normally, Itachi's speed > Sasuke's speed > Deidara's speed.

Tsukuyomi and 2 Amaterasus, yes. And then Susanoo. 4. And again, how will Kakashi get Itachi? He barely got Deidara, and I just proved that Itachi is way faster than Deidara. Also, remember that Itachi can make shadow clones during fights without other people even noticing. So first of all, Kakashi will never get Itachi, and even IF (That's "IF", which is like a 0.000001% chance) he gets lucky, it will most likely be a shadow clone. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/09/) Proof that Tsukuyomi can kill you? Right here. Read what Kakashi is thinking and what Kisame said. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/18/)

Yes, I wasn't really sure, which is why I said that even if Kisame died, that would leave them easy meat for Itachi. Unlike you, I actually think before I post and provide back-up. But you, you seem full of yourself. "Prove that Kisame would be able to survive the Flaming Peacock." But then, right after that, you go, "Kisame would die just as easily as the clone would." Like you said, give proof then, you hypocrite. And how will he defend against Kirin? Don't say, "Like I said," when I just told you how. Like I said, Itachi's Susanoo.

And you ask me to use common sense? Ha! YOU use common sense. Just because Kisame is a powerhouse, that means he's slow as hell? You truly are an idiot. 30% Kisame was already faster than normal Gai. Proof? Here Kisame is about to hit Gai with Samehada. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/04-05/) And here you can see from Gai's position, that he was about to block, which then would've got his arm ripped from Samehada. This also proves that he couldn't dodge it, and he only got lucky because Rock Lee came to save him. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/06/) So real Kisame's speed > 30% Kisame's speed > normal Gai's speed > Sakura's speed. Oh wait, you're going to ask for proof that Gai is faster than Sakura, right? Well, until you can show me a time when Sakura is this fast, this proves that real Kisame > 30% Kisame > normal Gai > Sakura in speed. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/117/07/)

I have no proof? :lmao: This whole post so far has contained loads of links to OneManga scans that beat everything you have said.

Spouting crap and calling them facts? That's obviously you. When will you understand? It's stated in the MANGA that Itachi would wipe the floor with Sasuke if he was serious. That's Kishimito's word, so that's fact. Not your crap. Sakura and Naruto are both close ranged, so they're no problem. That's fact. One Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi does it. Or Susanoo can seal them. It's already been stated Itachi > Sasuke. And I just proved Kakashi will never get Itachi with his Mangekyou Sharingan. This is all fact.

[WhiteFang]

I can't read? :lmao: You're the one who obviously can't read. "Amaterasu would've killed Sasuke." That's the exact same argument that Sasuke put up against Tobi. Go read the manga. Your failure is proved here. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/01/) And here. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/401/02/) Susanoo's sword has no real physical form. So they have nothing to defend themselves. They can't just run forever. They'll be caught eventually. And if they leave the battlefield, then Itachi and Kisame basically win by default.
It would have. At that time it would have. Sasuke is no longer the same. He's actually much much stronger now.

Irrevelant? Yes, I know it is. I was comparing that to when you said Itachi didn't seal Sasuke because he was going to die anyway. (What the hell?) Because obviously, if you were the guy in my story, you would stab him even if you knew you were going to die. The way you think, if you know you're going to die, you're not supposed to still try to beat your enemy, since either way, you don't win. So yes, when you said it was irrevelant, you basically agreed with me, saying your own crap is irrevelant. Thank you for helping me.

Edit: Oh, what do you know! I was typing this up and then the newest Bleach chapter came out. This one helps me even more. You said Itachi didn't seal Sasuke because he was going to die anyway, so either way, he doesn't really win, right? Well, let's see what Iba has to say. "If you want to fight, you've got to win, even if you die. (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/328/14/) If Itachi wanted to kill Sasuke, this would've been the case. This is why your logic fails.
Absolutely pointless. This isn't psychology dome. Its battledome.

If you meant that, then it was irrevelant. Yes, it's similar, but they never confirmed that it was the real Tsukuyomi. Plus, how does this confirm that Sasuke can do anything Itachi could?

Since you are very much believing and going by what Madara says, then also accept this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/11/
Observe, Madara says "all his eye techniques".
Now that aside, Sasuke pwns Itachi in fire techniques, we already know that. He can use a bunch of jutsu much better than Itachi. His Gokakyou was stronger than Itachi's and that's why Itachi resorted to Amaterasu. His fire dragon tech. again would have hit Itachi, it only missed because he wanted it too. He can also use Housenka as well as Itachi, we've already seen that.

Add to this the fact that Sasuke has one more element that is lightning and Itachi does not. Sasuke has really diversified his lightning techs. and they are quite useful against anyone, Itachi or no Itachi.
Sasuke is just as good as Itachi now if not better.

Yes, there was no moon when he used it on Sasuke, but that time, Itachi already activated his Mangekyou Sharingan before, so he could activate it. But in the fight against team 7, when did he activate his Mangekyou Sharingan? Give me the manga scan. And plus, even when he was inside the genjutsu, Itachi's Sharingan eyes are normal. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/08/) YOU think about it next time, junior. Eye contact? Tsukuyomi isn't the ONLY genjutsu that needs eye contact to work, idiot. Control the matter? You can do that in almost every genjutsu, idiot.

Tsukyomi does need eye contact. The only other genjutsu that I have seen which needs "eye-contact" is the one Kakashi used against Zabuza right in the beginning. Aside from that, none.
I think what she meant was absolute control of everything. Regular genjutsu cannot control time. Regular genjutsu works in real time.

Deidara was keeping up with Sasuke? :lmao: Here Tobi says that Sasuke is too fast for them. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/10/) Here Deidara barely keeps up with him, and on the next page, he has a cut on his shoulder. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/13/) Here Deidara SAYS that Sasuke is too fast, which is why he asked Tobi to put those mines down to try to slow him down. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/15/) Itachi actually keeped up with Sasuke, and even then, he wasn't going all-out, and he was half-blind and was ill. So normally, Itachi's speed > Sasuke's speed > Deidara's speed.
I hate it when people draw chains like these because they are one dimensional and irrelevent.
Your links prove nothing at all. Itachi, just like Deidara, barely kept up with Sasuke. And actually you know what, its pretty lame to compare Deidara because, against Kakashi and Naruto, it was basically a chase. And Deidara was flying. Being able to fly is one of the best possible advantages Deidara could have had against an attack like Kamui, especially when the trees obstructed Kakashi's vision. Itachi can't fly. It will take all what he has to just hold off Sasuke, and in the mean while Kakashi can zap him to the next dimension. Now I go with an explanation.
Here, Itachi needs time to charge his Amaterasu,
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/01/
And Sasuke is damn fast with the hand seals and stuff and so is Kakashi.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/02/
And here he is unable to dodge it because of Tsukyomi's side effects, and yet again I mention this is a much weaker Sasuke than he is now, and he has someone to assist him.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/09/
Face pace Sasuke? Reaction time getting slower. And you'll give me the Itachi was sick bull. Well to hell with that, he was taking medicine. He was pushed to use every damn attack he had in his arsenal. He was pushed to his limits, by a much weaker Sasuke than he is now. Now he'll face Sasuke with an MS and same or rather a shade better all over abilities with someone lets say as talented as Kakashi assisting him. Itachi simply can't handle that.

Tsukuyomi and 2 Amaterasus, yes. And then Susanoo. 4. And again, how will Kakashi get Itachi? He barely got Deidara, and I just proved that Itachi is way faster than Deidara.
Nope.
Also, remember that Itachi can make shadow clones during fights without other people even noticing.
He can, but not much of a use. Its just chakra waste here. There are 2 people fighting him, shadow clones should not be an issue. Similarly, I can also say that for the most part, Kakashi always uses Kawarimi. And Deidara's spider bombs (or whatever they were) also caught Kakashi's Kage Bunshin. He's just as good.

So first of all, Kakashi will never get Itachi, and even IF (That's "IF", which is like a 0.000001% chance) he gets lucky, it will most likely be a shadow clone. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/09/)
Again no. I'll narrate several case scenarios where and why he will get caught. Here, he is a sitting duck while battling Sasuke in genjutsu. Kakashi can easily charge his MS and get him here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/14/
And again, Amaterasu focuses wherever Itachi's eye focuses. Now he has one eye that has Amaterasu, he can only focus on one entity at a time. Sasuke with his own Amaterasu, ability to extinguish Amaterasu and his speed should be able to keep Itachi occupied easily and Kakashi can get him.

And you also seem to seriously underestimate Kakashi. But he's one of the fastest and stealthiest guys out there. He can use four elements, with very good efficiency. And he's also quite fast, primarily because Raikiri is based off the speed of the thrust. And during Naruto's training he was up to catch him right before he fainted. So his body flicker is pretty good too.

Proof that Tsukuyomi can kill you? Right here. Read what Kakashi is thinking and what Kisame said. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/18/)
Yet Tsukyomi has never ever killed anyone.

Yes, I wasn't really sure, which is why I said that even if Kisame died, that would leave them easy meat for Itachi. Unlike you, I actually think before I post and provide back-up. But you, you seem full of yourself. "Prove that Kisame would be able to survive the Flaming Peacock." But then, right after that, you go, "Kisame would die just as easily as the clone would." Like you said, give proof then, you hypocrite. And how will he defend against Kirin? Don't say, "Like I said," when I just told you how. Like I said, Itachi's Susanoo.
And give me proof that Itachi can just "order" Susanoo to protect anyone. That's quite bizarre and there is no proof anyway. All we know as of now is that Susanoo protects its summoner and that's that. And you know as well as I do that Itachi can hardly hold Susanoo long enough. If he'll even survive long enough to get to Susanoo. A Doton is a good measure against Susanoo. And Susanoo blocks all attacks. A interdimensional worm hole is not exactly an attack. Susanoo can't block that either.


And you ask me to use common sense? Ha! YOU use common sense. Just because Kisame is a powerhouse, that means he's slow as hell? You truly are an idiot. 30% Kisame was already faster than normal Gai. Proof? Here Kisame is about to hit Gai with Samehada. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/04-05/) And here you can see from Gai's position, that he was about to block, which then would've got his arm ripped from Samehada. This also proves that he couldn't dodge it, and he only got lucky because Rock Lee came to save him. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/256/06/) So real Kisame's speed > 30% Kisame's speed > normal Gai's speed > Sakura's speed. Oh wait, you're going to ask for proof that Gai is faster than Sakura, right? Well, until you can show me a time when Sakura is this fast, this proves that real Kisame > 30% Kisame > normal Gai > Sakura in speed. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/117/07/)
Again irrelevent. And you are talking of the Sakura before the time skip. How funny. If she can dodge almost every damn attack Sasori can throw at her, from all directions and completely poisoned. She is able to read those and begin dodging, coupled with her super insane strength to hold off the iron sand, and you tell me Kisame will get her?
Unreal. She is the dodging expert. Besides she just needs to keep Kisame busy. FR from Naruto and Kisame is dead meat. Naruto cut an entire waterfall with just wind natured chakra manipulation. He can destroy Kisame with FR. And now he has sage chakra. Its even more difficult to injure him. Tajuu Kage Bunshin is another jutsu unique to Naruto which will cause sufficient distraction for Kisame. And under water even, Naruto can use applications of Rasengan, to create a whirlpool. Just like he did in the tea country arc. Naruto can simply outlast Kisame.

I have no proof? :lmao: This whole post so far has contained loads of links to OneManga scans that beat everything you have said.

Spouting crap and calling them facts? That's obviously you. When will you understand? It's stated in the MANGA that Itachi would wipe the floor with Sasuke if he was serious. That's Kishimito's word, so that's fact. Not your crap. Sakura and Naruto are both close ranged, so they're no problem. That's fact. One Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi does it. Or Susanoo can seal them. It's already been stated Itachi > Sasuke. And I just proved Kakashi will never get Itachi with his Mangekyou Sharingan. This is all fact.

Sasuke has all of Itachi's eye techs. That's fact too.
What I've stated is fact too.
Try and maintain some decency in this debate, calling the Battledome Moderator an idiot constantly doesn't win you extra points. State your arguments with proof, they will have the same effect even if you don't call the other person an idiot.

[SpaceRazorz]

It would have. At that time it would have. Sasuke is no longer the same. He's actually much much stronger now.


Absolutely pointless. This isn't psychology dome. Its battledome.


Since you are very much believing and going by what Madara says, then also accept this.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/11/
Observe, Madara says "all his eye techniques".
Now that aside, Sasuke pwns Itachi in fire techniques, we already know that. He can use a bunch of jutsu much better than Itachi. His Gokakyou was stronger than Itachi's and that's why Itachi resorted to Amaterasu. His fire dragon tech. again would have hit Itachi, it only missed because he wanted it too. He can also use Housenka as well as Itachi, we've already seen that.

Add to this the fact that Sasuke has one more element that is lightning and Itachi does not. Sasuke has really diversified his lightning techs. and they are quite useful against anyone, Itachi or no Itachi.
Sasuke is just as good as Itachi now if not better.



Tsukyomi does need eye contact. The only other genjutsu that I have seen which needs "eye-contact" is the one Kakashi used against Zabuza right in the beginning. Aside from that, none.
I think what she meant was absolute control of everything. Regular genjutsu cannot control time. Regular genjutsu works in real time.


I hate it when people draw chains like these because they are one dimensional and irrelevent.
Your links prove nothing at all. Itachi, just like Deidara, barely kept up with Sasuke. And actually you know what, its pretty lame to compare Deidara because, against Kakashi and Naruto, it was basically a chase. And Deidara was flying. Being able to fly is one of the best possible advantages Deidara could have had against an attack like Kamui, especially when the trees obstructed Kakashi's vision. Itachi can't fly. It will take all what he has to just hold off Sasuke, and in the mean while Kakashi can zap him to the next dimension. Now I go with an explanation.
Here, Itachi needs time to charge his Amaterasu,
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/01/
And Sasuke is damn fast with the hand seals and stuff and so is Kakashi.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/02/
And here he is unable to dodge it because of Tsukyomi's side effects, and yet again I mention this is a much weaker Sasuke than he is now, and he has someone to assist him.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/389/09/
Face pace Sasuke? Reaction time getting slower. And you'll give me the Itachi was sick bull. Well to hell with that, he was taking medicine. He was pushed to use every damn attack he had in his arsenal. He was pushed to his limits, by a much weaker Sasuke than he is now. Now he'll face Sasuke with an MS and same or rather a shade better all over abilities with someone lets say as talented as Kakashi assisting him. Itachi simply can't handle that.


Nope.

He can, but not much of a use. Its just chakra waste here. There are 2 people fighting him, shadow clones should not be an issue. Similarly, I can also say that for the most part, Kakashi always uses Kawarimi. And Deidara's spider bombs (or whatever they were) also caught Kakashi's Kage Bunshin. He's just as good.


Again no. I'll narrate several case scenarios where and why he will get caught. Here, he is a sitting duck while battling Sasuke in genjutsu. Kakashi can easily charge his MS and get him here:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/14/
And again, Amaterasu focuses wherever Itachi's eye focuses. Now he has one eye that has Amaterasu, he can only focus on one entity at a time. Sasuke with his own Amaterasu, ability to extinguish Amaterasu and his speed should be able to keep Itachi occupied easily and Kakashi can get him.

And you also seem to seriously underestimate Kakashi. But he's one of the fastest and stealthiest guys out there. He can use four elements, with very good efficiency. And he's also quite fast, primarily because Raikiri is based off the speed of the thrust. And during Naruto's training he was up to catch him right before he fainted. So his body flicker is pretty good too.


Yet Tsukyomi has never ever killed anyone.


And give me proof that Itachi can just "order" Susanoo to protect anyone. That's quite bizarre and there is no proof anyway. All we know as of now is that Susanoo protects its summoner and that's that. And you know as well as I do that Itachi can hardly hold Susanoo long enough. If he'll even survive long enough to get to Susanoo. A Doton is a good measure against Susanoo. And Susanoo blocks all attacks. A interdimensional worm hole is not exactly an attack. Susanoo can't block that either.


Again irrelevent. And you are talking of the Sakura before the time skip. How funny. If she can dodge almost every damn attack Sasori can throw at her, from all directions and completely poisoned. She is able to read those and begin dodging, coupled with her super insane strength to hold off the iron sand, and you tell me Kisame will get her?
Unreal. She is the dodging expert. Besides she just needs to keep Kisame busy. FR from Naruto and Kisame is dead meat. Naruto cut an entire waterfall with just wind natured chakra manipulation. He can destroy Kisame with FR. And now he has sage chakra. Its even more difficult to injure him. Tajuu Kage Bunshin is another jutsu unique to Naruto which will cause sufficient distraction for Kisame. And under water even, Naruto can use applications of Rasengan, to create a whirlpool. Just like he did in the tea country arc. Naruto can simply outlast Kisame.



Sasuke has all of Itachi's eye techs. That's fact too.
What I've stated is fact too.
Try and maintain some decency in this debate, calling the Battledome Moderator an idiot constantly doesn't win you extra points. State your arguments with proof, they will have the same effect even if you don't call the other person an idiot.

Yes, much stronger now, only because he gained the Mangekyou Sharingan, from which we've seen only Amaterasu and one genjutsu. It's already been stated that Itachi > Sasuke and Sasuke getting a technique which Itachi already mastered isn't going to help.

And yet, it's not "'Illogical Whoever The Hell I Want To Win Wins' Battledome" either. So you're agreeing with Muffin? The reason Itachi didn't seal Sasuke was because he was going to die anyway, but he did WANT to kill Sasuke? That's just stupid.

Wrong. That was just Madara's assumption. He had no source to know that it was all of his eye techniques. The only eye technique he even witnessed from Sasuke is Amaterasu. Plus, he doesn't even know how Itachi transferred them, because he said, "somehow". So that's just assumption. That's different than when he said Itachi would've beat Sasuke. When he said that, this was after he watched Zetsu's recording of the fight. That's his source. But here, he has none.

Wrong. Itachi was proven to be holding back, and from what we've seen, Itachi is far more adept to fire techniques. When Fugaku taught Sasuke the Gougakyuu, he remarked on how it wasn't like Itachi. This implies that Itachi was close to mastering it or got it perfect on his first try. However, Sasuke only got to that level after training for a few days. Lightning? The only useful lightning technique we've seen is Kirin, which Susanoo can block. Chidori will be useless, seeing as how Itachi could just make a Shadow Clone without Sasuke even noticing.

Yes, I know that. When did I say it didn't need eye contact? Why can't anyone read? Also, for the genjutsu against Kakashi, it was never implied how much time it took. And again, the sole reason it cannot be Tsukuyomi was because Itachi's eyes were that of a normal Sharingan in the genjutsu. However, Muffin tried to ignore this fact.

Barely kept up with Sasuke? Ha! Sasuke has nothing on Susanoo. Itachi was half-blind, ill, and even held back, and he STILL could've won the fight. The trees obstructed Kakashi's vision? What the hell? How can they obstruct his vision when he was on TOP of them? And also, even if Deidara was flying, his bird isn't that fast. Gaara's sand was a bit faster than the bird, when even Lee and Sasuke could dodge it from the Chuunin Exams. In Shippuuden, Sasuke is much faster than before, but Itachi would've still won against him. So Itachi > Gaara's sand > Deidara's bird > Kakashi's aim.

That was just about the only time we've seen it being charged. In Jiraiya's toad stomach technique, it was catching up on Itachi and Kisame, and yet Itachi still pulled off an Amaterasu in time. Even when Sasuke used Amaterasu on Madara, it wasn't charged. Sasuke's eye just bled and it went off.

Yes, and Itachi is even faster at hand seals than Sasuke and Itachi. Sasuke didn't even notice Itachi made the Shadow Clone seal during that fight. Itachi can also prepare another jutsu while he's using one.

Yes, but now that the Sasuke in this battle has Mangekyou Sharingan, I assume that Itachi also just magically game back to life after the battle. He's not going to be using Tsukuyomi on Sasuke anymore. Also, when he uses Susanoo, he can rest as much as he wants.

What the hell is a "face pace Sasuke"? And yeah, he took medicine, but so what? He still coughed up some blood after he used Susanoo. You guys are really dumb. So if a kid has a really bad cold and he takes Triaminic one time, will he automatically be good as new? No. You posts are the only bull crap around here. Itachi was NOT pushed to his limit. When are you going to understand this? This was stated by Madara himself AFTER he had watched the fight from Zetsu. If you're so full of yourself, then tell me why the hell he didn't seal Sasuke.

No, Kakashi isn't "just as good". Kakashi has to make the seal when other people aren't looking. When he was chasing Deidara, he went below. However, Itachi does it in front of you and you can't even notice.

Wrong. Like I said, Itachi could just replace himself with a Shadow Clone there. Itachi already knows Kakashi has a Mangekyou Sharingan. When his 30% clone fought Team Kakashi, Kakashi revealed his Sharingan, and there was something about his Sharingan that startled Itachi a bit. And he said, "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have." Obviously, he's talking about the Mangekyou Sharingan, so he's not going to just stand around in front of Kakashi.

And again, you seem to be forgetting about Susanoo.

No, I'm not underestimating him. It's just fact that Itachi > Kakashi. Yes, he's fast and stealthy. But Itachi is faster and stealthier. Yes, Kakashi can use four elements. So what? Itachi would be able to do the same. You're forgetting Itachi has the Sharingan as well, and even better at using it than Kakashi at that.

Yes, Tsukuyomi has never killed anyone, but both Kakashi and even Kisame, who is his PARTNER, stated it could kill people. Even Itachi himself said that the spirit doesn't understand that Tsukuyomi is not real. This means everything will be REAL to them, meaning it's capable of killing them.

Proof? No. You just need common sense. Susanoo is under Itachi's control. That's all you need to know. And yes, Kakashi's technique IS an attack. The definition of "attack": to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy. And since Yata's Mirror is a supernatural item stated to turn back any "attack", it will work. Together with the Sword of Totsuka, Kakashi and the others will be sealed up in no time.

Every damn attack from Sasori? :lmao: Sakura would've died from the moment the battle started if it wasn't for Chiyo. This is one of the times when you probably thought Sakura was a "dodging expert". (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/265/16/) Whoops! Turns out Chiyo was controlling her like a puppet all along. Why would they do this? Because Sakura can't dodge Sasori's attacks. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/265/17/) Kisame, like Naruto, also has a massive amount of chakra. Shadow Clones? Kisame has Water Clones to counter. Sakura won't be able to keep Kisame busy. She's close ranged, so Kisame will just wait until she tries to punch him, then block with his sword, and then one of his Water Clones would come behind and do a Water Prison. The real one would then go handle Naruto. Rasenshuriken? Yeah, like Naruto's going to get the chance to hit Kisame with that. 30% Kisame could make lakes out of his mouth. He'd be able to do the same here. The water will just wash over Naruto. Then once he's in, Kisame could use the 5 Sharks technique. Considering that the sharks can heal automatically after attacks, they will eventually get Naruto. As for Naruto making a whirlpool, how the hell is that going to help him? It's already been shown that Kisame can control the water. He could make it rise up to ride it, etc. A whirlpool isn't stopping him. And thesides, the Tea Country arc. is filler. Naruto's never shown the ability to make a whirlpool in the manga.

Sasuke, for now, does NOT have Itachi's eye techniques. That's fact. Also, even IF Sasuke has Susanoo and Tsukuyomi, so what? Tsukuyomi can get cancelled out by another Mangekyou Sharingan and Sasuke's Susanoo is basically useless. You know why? Because Itachi's Susanoo is the one with the legendary items, Yata's Mirror and the Sword of Totsuba. This is fact.

Extra points? :lmao: I don't care about that crap. In fact, the only reason I joined this place was because of dumb people on the forums. Yeah, the moderator is here. So what? That has nothing to do with a debate. Just because a moderator comes onto a thread, that means he/she is automatically right? They're not gods. They don't know everything.

[WhiteFang]

Yes, much stronger now, only because he gained the Mangekyou Sharingan, from which we've seen only Amaterasu and one genjutsu. It's already been stated that Itachi > Sasuke and Sasuke getting a technique which Itachi already mastered isn't going to help.
Its been stated by the same Madara that Sasuke has all of Itachi's eye techs. It has also been said by him that Sasuke's eyes will surpass Itachi's. After gaining the MS, Sasuke is just at the level. What the hell is wrong with you? Either believe all of Madara's statements, or believe none. You can't be selective in choosing only what supports your side of the debate. You are the one whose constantly arguing against the manga.
And give me proof that Sasuke's tech usage isn't just as good as Itachi's. The amaterasu's they used were just the same.
And you keep on blabbering that Itachi>Sasuke, whereas, have a look, Sasuke broke through Tsukuyomi just with his regular 3-tomoe. If anything Sasuke's sharingan is superior to Itachi's, and it has been stated by Madara and Orochimaru.

Wrong. That was just Madara's assumption. He had no source to know that it was all of his eye techniques. The only eye technique he even witnessed from Sasuke is Amaterasu. Plus, he doesn't even know how Itachi transferred them, because he said, "somehow". So that's just assumption. That's different than when he said Itachi would've beat Sasuke. When he said that, this was after he watched Zetsu's recording of the fight. That's his source. But here, he has none.
Again you start with the crap.
Either believe ALL of what Madara says.. or NONE of it.
And he said "somehow", because he could not explain how the heck Itachi transferred them with just a poke.
And in the same damn recording he also saw Itachi poking Sasuke and when Amaterasu fired at him, he deduced all the eye techs. have been transferred.
I'll say again, except ALL or NONE. There's no in between.

Wrong. Itachi was proven to be holding back, and from what we've seen, Itachi is far more adept to fire techniques. When Fugaku taught Sasuke the Gougakyuu, he remarked on how it wasn't like Itachi. This implies that Itachi was close to mastering it or got it perfect on his first try. However, Sasuke only got to that level after training for a few days. Lightning? The only useful lightning technique we've seen is Kirin, which Susanoo can block. Chidori will be useless, seeing as how Itachi could just make a Shadow Clone without Sasuke even noticing.
The stuff you've stated about Katon proves nothing. What the heck is wrong with you? Always looking up stuff pre time skip. Go take a look at the Itachi Sasuke fight, and when they fire the Gokakyou, Sasuke's is much stronger than Itachi's. Damn hell he was forced to use Amaterasu, why isn't this getting in your head. Your entire argument seems to be based of the fact, that Itachi was holding back. But seriously, if we look at it critically, that really doesn't matter, because in essence this was his last battle, so if you start assuming that he can do more just because of this "holding back" thing, its all speculation. So Uchiha can do only what he showed capable of until that battle that's fact.

Yes, I know that. When did I say it didn't need eye contact? Why can't anyone read? Also, for the genjutsu against Kakashi, it was never implied how much time it took. And again, the sole reason it cannot be Tsukuyomi was because Itachi's eyes were that of a normal Sharingan in the genjutsu. However, Muffin tried to ignore this fact.
It was implied actually. Kakashi faced hours of torture, yet only a few seconds had passed in real life. But I'll let this drop, because I know he's used Tsukoyomi thrice, once on Kakashi at the lake, and twice on Sasuke, pre timeskip and then in the final battle.

Barely kept up with Sasuke? Ha! Sasuke has nothing on Susanoo.
I meant in terms of speed. And when Itachi used Susanoo, he dies or is left severly incapacitated.
Itachi was half-blind, ill, and even held back, and he STILL could've won the fight.
....
The trees obstructed Kakashi's vision? What the hell? How can they obstruct his vision when he was on TOP of them? And also, even if Deidara was flying, his bird isn't that fast. Gaara's sand was a bit faster than the bird, when even Lee and Sasuke could dodge it from the Chuunin Exams. In Shippuuden, Sasuke is much faster than before, but Itachi would've still won against him. So Itachi > Gaara's sand > Deidara's bird > Kakashi's aim.

The entirety of your point is that Itachi is faster that Sasuke, something which there is no proof for. All just assumption.

That was just about the only time we've seen it being charged.
And that's about the only time we've seen it being used properly.
In Jiraiya's toad stomach technique, it was catching up on Itachi and Kisame, and yet Itachi still pulled off an Amaterasu in time.
Just a little and he said he was exhausted.
Even when Sasuke used Amaterasu on Madara, it wasn't charged. Sasuke's eye just bled and it went off.
Because it was implanted. When Sasuke used it against 8 tails, it took him a while.
But you seem to have pretty much ignored all the other points. Oh well...
Not sounding like a prick, but it would be easier if you replied to separate quotes instead of one big quote, that way its easier to reply to.

Yes, and Itachi is even faster at hand seals than Sasuke and Itachi.
Typo huh? Well anyways, gimme proof. I've given you Zetsu's battle observation. I've said it before, I'll say it again, yes Itachi's seal formation speed is very very fast, but so is Kakashi's and Sasuke's after the time skip. And there is no way you can just say that Itachi's is faster, until and unless its stated somewhere.
Sasuke didn't even notice Itachi made the Shadow Clone seal during that fight. Itachi can also prepare another jutsu while he's using one.
And yet again you keep on missing the fact, that in that fight, Sasuke was alone. He has Kakashi with him here, one clean hit and a shadow clone is gone, it will be a waste of Itachi's chakra.

Yes, but now that the Sasuke in this battle has Mangekyou Sharingan, I assume that Itachi also just magically game back to life after the battle. He's not going to be using Tsukuyomi on Sasuke anymore. Also, when he uses Susanoo, he can rest as much as he wants.
What? I didn't get the last part at all, but, if as you say, Itachi decides to sit and wait it out inside Susanoo, that's just funny. Because:
a) Susanoo puts a lot of physical strain on Itachi and he can't hold the tech. long enough. Note in the battle that it was only after using Susanoo is that he was barely able to move, started clutching his chest and coughing up blood. That tech. isn't used freely and there's a very good reason because it seems to be incapacitating for the user too.
b) If he's still inside Susanoo, he can be sucked up into the next dimension. Because after using Susanoo, he can barely walk, forget his speed and stuff, Kakashi can aim at him then. And don't tell me that a dimension hole can be deflected. Because it sucks up everything. If it can suck up Deidara's entire blast, and make it blow in another dimension, he can also suck up the shield or anything else for that matter.

What the hell is a "face pace Sasuke"?
A Sasuke, who's faster than Itachi. Or an Itachi who cannot keep up with him and hence his reaction time appears to be becoming slower.
And yeah, he took medicine, but so what? He still coughed up some blood after he used Susanoo.
That was because of the tech. itself.


You guys are really dumb. So if a kid has a really bad cold and he takes Triaminic one time, will he automatically be good as new? No. You posts are the only bull crap around here.
Offcourse.
Itachi was NOT pushed to his limit. When are you going to understand this?
.... He died. Yep, not pushed to his limit.

This was stated by Madara himself AFTER he had watched the fight from Zetsu. If you're so full of yourself, then tell me why the hell he didn't seal Sasuke.
Because he loves his cute little brother. But lets say he seals Sasuke. Then what? Dies after sometime. End result is a tie.

No, Kakashi isn't "just as good". Kakashi has to make the seal when other people aren't looking. When he was chasing Deidara, he went below. However, Itachi does it in front of you and you can't even notice.
He also did it against Itachi's clone, he was looking. With his sharingan. Yet failed to notice.

Wrong. Like I said, Itachi could just replace himself with a Shadow Clone there. Itachi already knows Kakashi has a Mangekyou Sharingan. When his 30% clone fought Team Kakashi, Kakashi revealed his Sharingan, and there was something about his Sharingan that startled Itachi a bit. And he said, "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have." Obviously, he's talking about the Mangekyou Sharingan, so he's not going to just stand around in front of Kakashi.
Oh yeah, he wouldn't want to stand around in front of Kakashi. But Sasuke won't let him have his way. He can simply force genjutsu warfare to give Kakashi an opportunity.

And again, you seem to be forgetting about Susanoo.
No I'm not. Here, I'll post DIY's awesome analysis, all credits to him.

Since you don't listen to reason lets use manga.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/14/
2 Amateratsus take a lot of chakra and stamina out of Itachi, but leave him in good physical condition still (he's not panting, his eye probably hurts and he can still dodge major surprise attacks)

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/390/15/
2 Amateratsu, 1 Tsyuoumi and one great fire ball and he's nearly out of chakra.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/14/
Notice the blood pooling for Itachi's mouth? I'll elaborate in a second.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/391/16/
Susano has appeared and for some strange reason a completely blocked kirin threw him to the ground and make him cough up blood? I don't think so, but hey, lets keep watching.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/11/
Susano swung its arm, there was no lunge because there were no legs as demonstrated in one of the links I posted.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/15/
Still no lunge and this is the final attack of Susano.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/02/
By admission of plant boy and by extension, the creator of Naruto. This technique carries a lot of risk.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/03/
See how Itachi looks extremely weak? Considering what has happened I can see why. But lets keep watching.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/04/
Uh oh Itachi is grabbing his chest, right where his heart is. Could this be a heart attack?
And he's coughing up more blood! what the hell, he went from dodging attacks and holding his eye to clutching his chest and coughing up blood and the only thing he did is keep Susano in place? Either God hates Itachi or that technique isn't used very often for a very, very good reason.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/16/
And look at that, Itachi went from dodging attacks to dead from a bunch of reflected attacks that never even came close to hitting him.

Lets go over this quickly.
Itachi used

2 Amateratsu, 1 Tsyuoumi and one great fire ball, 1 Susano, 1 kage bushin and dodged 3 attacks and he's dead? What the hell...he should be tired not dead...unless the blood coming from his mouth and the clenching of his heart had something to do with this.
Hey I have an idea lets ask Zetsu and by extension the writer!

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/393/02/
Well that RAPES your Susano'o point with canon material that's not subject to your hearsay.

No, I'm not underestimating him. It's just fact that Itachi > Kakashi. Yes, he's fast and stealthy. But Itachi is faster and stealthier.
No he is not. Itachi can beat Kakashi in a one on one situation right now. But no, there is no proof he is faster or stealthier. Itachi has actually been shown to be a defensive fighter who has minimalistic movement.
Yes, Kakashi can use four elements. So what? Itachi would be able to do the same. You're forgetting Itachi has the Sharingan as well, and even better at using it than Kakashi at that.
Again you start with the assumptions.
First of all, Itachi can't do what Kakashi can because to use a tech. not only should you know the hand seals which the sharingan helps to memorise but also be in accordance with that particular element. That's why he can't just copy the seals and use chidori or copy the seals and use a Suiryuudan. Go read the manga, Naruto's FR training and the fight against Kakuzu, that's why actually Kakuzu was such a big issue.
And again you give me a very fine assumption that Itachi is better at using his sharingan that Kakashi.

Proof? No. You just need common sense. Susanoo is under Itachi's control. That's all you need to know. And yes, Kakashi's technique IS an attack. The definition of "attack": to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy. And since Yata's Mirror is a supernatural item stated to turn back any "attack", it will work. Together with the Sword of Totsuka, Kakashi and the others will be sealed up in no time.

No. Its assumption, and your and my common sense differ. And Susanoo, didn't seem to be under his "control". It was just automatically protecting him.

No. An interdimensional wormhole is not an attack in the physical sense. Its not a hostility, nor does it use physical chakra. It just sucks stuff up into another dimension. If it can suck up a complete blast, I don't see that Yata shield being an issue.
No. They won't be sealed up in no time. Itachi becomes pathetic after using Susanoo, he'll either get sucked up or die himself because of the excessive strain.

Every damn attack from Sasori? :lmao: Sakura would've died from the moment the battle started if it wasn't for Chiyo. This is one of the times when you probably thought Sakura was a "dodging expert". (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/265/16/) [URL="http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/265/17/"]Whoops! Turns out Chiyo was controlling her like a puppet all along. Why would they do this? Because Sakura can't dodge Sasori's attacks.
I already knew you would say this. But care to go through the rest of the fight? She actually began to pick up Sasori's movements and dodge them on her own. And this is Sasori, there are hardly too many characters with the same number and diversity of attacks. She'll begin to pick up Kisame's movements just like she did Sasori's. And Kisame's attacks really aren't that big of a deal to dodge. You just have to get out of the way.

Kisame, like Naruto, also has a massive amount of chakra. Shadow Clones? Kisame has Water Clones to counter. Sakura won't be able to keep Kisame busy. She's close ranged, so Kisame will just wait until she tries to punch him, then block with his sword, and then one of his Water Clones would come behind and do a Water Prison. The real one would then go handle Naruto. Rasenshuriken? Yeah, like Naruto's going to get the chance to hit Kisame with that. 30% Kisame could make lakes out of his mouth. He'd be able to do the same here. The water will just wash over Naruto. Then once he's in, Kisame could use the 5 Sharks technique. Considering that the sharks can heal automatically after attacks, they will eventually get Naruto. As for Naruto making a whirlpool, how the hell is that going to help him? It's already been shown that Kisame can control the water. He could make it rise up to ride it, etc. A whirlpool isn't stopping him. And thesides, the Tea Country arc. is filler. Naruto's never shown the ability to make a whirlpool in the manga.
Naruto's chakra is far more than Kisame's and now he also has sage chakra.

Sakura isn't stupid and she's insanely strong, you have given a battle simulation situation, it can go another way.
Yeah right, Naruto got Kakuzu, who had those insane rope like things around him. Rasenshuriken is actually a mid-range attack, seeing that it also covers an area around Naruto, that's why Choji could not back him up.
Kisame controls the water, Naruto cut through a waterfall during his training. He's improved now, why would he have an issue with cutting down Kisame's wave.
Your right about the tea country thing, I forgot. But anyways, what's stopping him using a Rasengan under the water... and Naruto heals super fast too. He needs to use a Rasengan or Oodama Rasengan and the sharks will just get annihilated completely as was in Gai's case. And he can use shadow clones to distract the sharks, how'll they figure out whose the real Naruto?

Sasuke, for now, does NOT have Itachi's eye techniques.
Yep, keep arguing against the manga.
That's fact. Also, even IF Sasuke has Susanoo and Tsukuyomi, so what? Tsukuyomi can get cancelled out by another Mangekyou Sharingan and Sasuke's Susanoo is basically useless. You know why? Because Itachi's Susanoo is the one with the legendary items, Yata's Mirror and the Sword of Totsuba. This is fact.
Oh wow. I won't even make an effort to reply to this. But I'll just tell you, what you are saying is assumption. Fact is that Susanoo is the 3rd tech. which awoke in Itachi's eyes the day he gained MS, he said it himself. So Sasuke's Susanoo will be just the same. The shield of Yata atleast.

Extra points? :lmao: I don't care about that crap. In fact, the only reason I joined this place was because of dumb people on the forums. Yeah, the moderator is here. So what? That has nothing to do with a debate. Just because a moderator comes onto a thread, that means he/she is automatically right? They're not gods. They don't know everything.
I know that too. I've debated against her before actually.
But lets just drop it. I was only referring to the fact that you are pretty sure that everyone but you is dumb, stupid and idiotic... but oh well.