How do you think Kakashi learned the Rasengan?

[Xinobi]

I was surprised to see him do it. Do you think his sharingan copied it from Minato or do you think he spent time training to do it? We know the sharingan can copy/analyze any jutsu. But is it only hand sign jutsu or any jutsu?

Kakashi just popped it out there. If Sasuke seen it would he be able to do it as well? Well he has seen it but never done it.

I personally think Sasuke watched Kakashi do the Chidori and copied it but Kakashi spent the rest of the time teaching him how to use it efficiently. (My personal opinion, it is a jutsu)...

The real question here is 2 part. Do you think Kakashi copied the Rasengan and do you think Sasuke could do it too.

[Gaara-Kozokage]

Nope cus i think Kakashi spend some time trainig cus he hade alot of time to train altho why Sasuke didnt copy it? He knows Rasengan is stronger.. So my answer is kakashi saw naruto do that justsu and he trained..

[Xinobi]

Nope cus i think Kakashi spend some time trainig cus he hade alot of time to train altho why Sasuke didnt copy it? He knows Rasengan is stronger.. So my answer is kakashi saw naruto do that justsu and he trained..

That is your answer and I respect that but why train in it if he can copy it?

[Summer.]

no.
I think sharingan can't copy any jutsu. rasengan is not done with hand's signs, so I believe you need a lot of practice to learn it.
and do you remember when sasuke copied lee's kick in 2. part of chunnin exam? that time gai said that normal person couldn't do it by just copied it, but it needs lots and lots of practice even if you copy it with sharingan.
so I believe that the most complex jutsus (like rasengan (not to mention rasenshuriken)) needs practice, sharingan's ability is not enough...

[Nagashi]

my answer is, the sharingan can be seen to understand how the rasengan works, but training would still be required

[majinsharingan]

My answer is.
Minato.
Minato created it.
And taught it to Kakashi.

[Xinobi]

no.
I think sharingan can't copy any jutsu. rasengan is not done with hand's signs, so I believe you need a lot of practice to learn it.
and do you remember when sasuke copied lee's kick in 2. part of chunnin exam? that time gai said that normal person couldn't do it by just copied it, but it needs lots and lots of practice even if you copy it with sharingan.
so I believe that the most complex jutsus (like rasengan (not to mention rasenshuriken)) needs practice, sharingan's ability is not enough...

Read manga chapter 68 page 14-16. He did do it after seeing it once, (Lee's Kick). It isn't something he can just so over and over though.

Even if you do have to train I think the actual fundamentals of the actual jutsu would come easier to a sharingan user. Training how to use it would effectively but he the actual learning part. That is my opinion.

My answer is.
Minato.
Minato created it.
And taught it to Kakashi.

How long do you think it took for Kakashi to actually learn how to perform it? I mean it is a mystery. Was it instantaneous or a while?

[KaitouSai100]

I sense plot hole.

I don't recall the Tsunade arc, but I think Naruto was taught Rasengan to keep the Uchiha from copying it.

[Animeswordmaster]

I think Minato taught Kakashi the rasengan because it would make sense. Kakashi taught himself Chidori. Since he learned Chidori quickly, I don't think it'd be too hard for him to learn rasengan.

[Megaman123]

I agree, I'm pretty sure Kakashi learned himself how to do Chidori. He probably couldn't copy it with his Sharingan.

[Animeswordmaster]

Rasengan also has to be learned through strict chakra control. That's not something you can just copy either.

[majinsharingan]

Yeah he learned that himself, but he could copy it. It's a jutsu.

[Animeswordmaster]

tsk tsk tsk. Rasengan goes through these stages in the spoiler. Courtesy to leafninja.com. Basically, even though it's still a ninjutsu, one would have to master chakra usage before using it. Therefore, someone MUST have taught it to him.


Rasengan - Spiral Sphere
Character Use: Uzumaki Naruto, Jiraiya, Yondaime Hokage, Hatake Kakashi
Rank: A
Range: Close (0m ~ 5m)
Type: Attack


Rasengan was a ninjutsu technique developed over the span of three years by the Fourth Hokage. The technique was taught to his sensei Jiraiya, who then passed it on to the young ninja Naruto years later. Like Kage Bunshin, Naruto would adopt the technique as a signature move and make it all his own. The technique is unlike other jutsu in that it does not require any handseals, it just relied on the ninja's ability to mold chakra. The ninja concentrates a contained, fast, rotating sphere of chakra in the palm of their hand which can cause much destructive impact.

Thus the technique was pure shape manipulation of chakra, unlike most elemental techniques which are shape and nature manipulation. Hatake Kakashi stated the technique was unfinished for this reason, as the Fourth Hokage did not get a chance to add some form of nature manipulation to it and it was even unclear whether it is even possible for an elemental nature to be added. Naruto dedicated himself to this task though, in the hopes of fusing his Wind elemental nature with the Rasengan's shape manipulation. He eventually succeeded after long and hard training, which took advantage of Kage Bunshin's memory absorption capabilities. He was able to finish the jutsu in the span of a few weeks what would have taken a normal ninja numerous years. The new Wind Element version was thus named Fuuton: Rasengan.

Learning Rasengan:

To teach Naruto the Rasengan, Jiraiya broke the training down into three parts. With a foundation of water and tree walking, Jiraiya wanted Naruto to create a flow of chakra from his palm and rotate it. By holding a water balloon in his hand, the released chakra would cause the water inside to move. The first act is to gather and maintain chakra in ones hand; this uses skills gained in the tree climbing exercise. Next the ninja needs to release a constant amount of chakra as learned in the water walking exercise. Finally the ninja needs to push and rotate the water inside the water balloon.

Step One:

Jiraiya thus broke down the training into three steps. First Naruto had to rotate the water and break the water balloon; this step emphasizes rotation. The rotating chakra must spin in proper synch with the body. When the body and spirit energy mix to form chakra, it rotates clockwise or counter clockwise within the body of the ninja. The ninja will need to spin the chakra within the palm in the same direction it does in the body to attain maximum efficiency. Naruto had trouble popping the balloon with the first step, because he was unable to make his chakra rotate randomly with only one hand. To make up for this issue, he learned to utilize his right hand to release the chakra, and then use this hand to strike the left balloon hand multiple times to rotate the water inside. This caused the water to rotate multiple ways, creating enough instability to break the balloon.

Step Two:

The second step involves breaking a rubber ball, much like the water balloon but about 100 times more difficult to pop. This step emphasizes power. Because the ball lacks water, it is more difficult to imagine the spinning chakra inside. Naruto had the most difficulty with this step. No matter how much chakra he pumped into the ball it would not pop, causing more and more pain in his hands. He then grasped he would need to build and keep storing the chakra until he could bear the pain no more, and then begin the rotation process. Doing it in this fashion allowed him to pierce the skin and deflate the ball. This step is hard because there was little for Naruto to concentrate on. To rectify this, Jiraiya had Naruto concentrate on a mark made in the palm of the hand. Naruto had difficulty concentrating on the spot until he remembered back to the leaf forehead training his teacher Iruka taught years before. By placing a leaf to the forehead, a ninja would have to properly concentrate on it alone and mold the chakra to keep it affixed to the forehead. Naruto modified his palm mark to look like a leaf. He then focused and concentrated his chakra to this spot and the ball exploded!

Step Three:

The third step involves quickly rotating the chakra randomly in a balloon full of air. This causes the chakra to form a spherical shape akin to a small typhoon. Though even more power and rotation is used than in step two, the balloon itself will not move or pop due to the precise chakra control. Using 100% of the skills used in steps one and two, the ninja is to create an imaginary layer to contain the rotating chakra and compress the chakra within that layer. By retaining this power within the hand alone, the power will not disperse, it will become faster and more concentrated and reach its ultimate destructive power. Naruto had trouble controlling 100% of his power with just two hands and had to rely on a Kage Bunshin clone to help contain the rotating chakra within the spherical layer.

Final:
Mastering Normal Rasengan:
Naruto would later advance his skills, giving him greater control of his chakra during the Rasengan creation process. Naruto would also go on to further make the jutsu his own, by creating a new variation of the Rasengan called Oodama Rasengan, this "Big Ball" version relies on a Kage Bunshin, but packs an even more powerful impact than the normal Rasengan.

Creating an Elemental Rasengan:
Naruto's drive to stay on equal footing with Uchiha Sasuke would cause him to take the next step in developing the Rasengan. Upon speaking with Hatake Kakashi, Naruto realized that Kage Bunshin transfer their memeory back to the ninja upon dispersal. Because Naruto had access to vast quanities of chakra, he could use Tajuu Kage Bunshin fairly extensively. This would allow each Naruto to work on the jutsu, disperse and then give the rest the updated information. This allowed Naruto to use thousands of clones and greatly reduce the time needed to figure out how to successfully alter the nature of the chakra into his Wind element type. What would have taken Naruto alone possibly decades to do; he managed to do in the span of about a week. It is unclear whether any other elements could successfully be added to the Rasengan shaped chakra. With enough time and training, a ninja with enough control over an element type may be able to do so.

Wind Element Training Step One:

The Wind Element is known for its ability to cut and sever most anything, making it an excellent offensive oriented ability for close and mid-ranged battles. The first step in wind training is placing a leaf between ones palms and then cutting it in half with only ones chakra. To manipulate ones chakra it helps if the ninja imagines their chakra splitting into two and then grinding back across themselves. This allows the two chakra fields to essentially sharpen the other into a very thin and sharp cutting edge.

Wind Element Training Step Two:

The second step involves cutting running water with all the Wind chakra the ninja can manage. With this the ninja has to create and produce massive amounts of elemental chakra nearly instantaneously, just as they would in an actual jutsu. To successfully cut the water, the ninja must ensure their Wind chakra remains in the body long enough after molding it.

Wind Element Training Step Three:

The final step in Wind training is to spatially recompose your newly created elemental chakra. This allows the ninja to determine the strength and scope of their attack. The normal Rasengan itself is pure spatial recomposition of chakra. To combine the two is not easy, as the number of ninja who can do both simultaneously is limited. To do so requires a natural innate talent. It was this step which was too difficult even for the Fourth Hokage. The Fourth intended to add his own elemental chakra into the highly developed spatial recomposition of the Rasengan to create a Rank S or even higher rank of difficulty jutsu. This task proved very difficult for Naruto, extensively requiring Tenzou's Bijuu control powers. According to Naruto this task asked him to do two things which couldn't be done alone. To that end he decided to use two clones, one to help with Rasengan formation and the other to help in Wind element creation. This allowed him to finally master the technique, without the apparent need for other clones.

[Megaman123]

So then did Sasuke ever learn it? I don't know too much.

[Animeswordmaster]

No, Sasuke has never learned rasengan yet. He learned Chidori and learned how to apply it in several stages. Some examples are Chidori Senbon and Chidori Sword

[Ido]

Nope cus i think Kakashi spend some time trainig cus he hade alot of time to train altho why Sasuke didnt copy it? He knows Rasengan is stronger.. So my answer is kakashi saw naruto do that justsu and he trained..

Yeah also my answer is that he saw Naruto do it....probaly trying to learn the jutsu the same way Naruto did it..oO

[Xinobi]

I am glad we have many different opinions which all of them could be right.

[Summer.]

Read manga chapter 68 page 14-16. He did do it after seeing it once, (Lee's Kick). It isn't something he can just so over and over though.


I know he did, but I said that gai said normal person still couldn't do it by just copy it once (sasuke is extremely talented, he's not normal person). my point is that probably unusual, complex jutsus (or those which needs a lot of chakra) can't be done by just copying them. they require training and talent.

[Nagashi]

yeah i dont think the sharingan can copy abilities that the user doesnt currently have the body to do, so in his head he could know it well but his body just cant craft the jutsu

[Xinobi]

Yet Sasuke pulled it off (Lee's technique) and Gai said Sasuke reminds him of Kakashi when he was young. So...

[majinsharingan]

He learned it from Minato. To complete it, that's why he created Chidori.(He did, just read that chapter again).

[Megaman123]

Man, you've got references to manga.

[Xinobi]

You are saying Kakashi created Chidori because he couldn't combine his lightening chakra to the rasengan? But Manga chapter 321, page 10 he does say he copied it. However... Since he HAD to create the chidori because he couldn't combine his own chakra nature to the Rasengan would mean that would put it before he got his sharingan eye. So I guess he did learn it the hard way. I guess the mystery is solved. Good show Majin, as always it was a pleasure.

[Nekokami]

Rasengan is a move where you need precise mhakra control for hakra molding. When you add your own elemental chakra to it, it will become more powerful. Kakashi was taught the Rasengan by the 4th. He tried adding his own Elemental chakra to it and it failed. So he came up with his own jutsu- Chidori. After repeated use it formed into Raikiri because it had actually cut lightning. Before he got sharingan, the lightning blinded him so much that he couldnt see his ooponents counter attack. After he got sharingan, however he could use it with more precision!

^^ 1st post on this site w00t!:D :D :cool:

[Chidori]

I do not think it is possible to copy a move like the Rasengan...I think it requires training and there is no shortcuts....

Well the creater of the Rasengan was Kakashi's sensei, I Think he learned it from Minato

[Xinobi]

My post and the post under clarified Kakashi's Rasengan origin and the origin of the Chidori/Raikiri. But if you still have thoughts feel free to post them I guess.

[Soul]

Its Pretty simple all you do is gather chakra into your hand. Im pretty sure kakashi figured that out.

[jho]

i think Sasuke has the skills to use rasengan right away if he sees anyone forming it from the beginning once, but it would still be inferior to his elemental based chidori. Only an elemental based rasengan can become a more powerful jutsu (that was the whole reasoning Kakashi gave to Naruto on why he didn't personally use rasengan himself - adding an element to the jutsu makes it significantly more powerful)

[naruhina_sakusasuke]

my answer is, the sharingan can be seen to understand how the rasengan works, but training would still be required

i agree with you, but i think sasuke didnt realize just how powerful it was gonna be til he saw the results of it and didnt pay much attention to it...
kakashi, however, who is much more experienced with the sharingan, noticed just how powerful it is and learned it on his own...that or the 4th showed it to him when he was still a genin

[majinsharingan]

i agree with you, but i think sasuke didnt realize just how powerful it was gonna be til he saw the results of it and didnt pay much attention to it...
kakashi, however, who is much more experienced with the sharingan, noticed just how powerful it is and learned it on his own...that or the 4th showed it to him when he was still a genin

That's impossible.
You realize Kakashi was 5 when he was a genin.
He became a Chuunin at the age of 6.
Jounin at 13.
He created Lightning Edge(his name of Chidori) around 12 or 13 and I'm guessing after Obito was gone and Rin disappeared that Minato taught him Rasengan.

[naruhina_sakusasuke]

well said

[Xinobi]

That's impossible.
You realize Kakashi was 5 when he was a genin.
He became a Chuunin at the age of 6.
Jounin at 13.
He created Lightning Edge(his name of Chidori) around 12 or 13 and I'm guessing after Obito was gone and Rin disappeared that Minato taught him Rasengan.

No, I thought he created the Chidori because he could not add his nature to the Rasengan.

He said he wouldnt of needed the Chidori if he was able to do that.

[majinsharingan]

No, I thought he created the Chidori because he could not add his nature to the Rasengan.

He said he wouldnt of needed the Chidori if he was able to do that.

He did? So he actually knew the rasengan in the gaiden manga. ohhhh....

[TsuHanyou]

no ya see
when kakashi showed it it was a smaller form of rasengan and it wasnt the same element as narutos i think...
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/rvolume36.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=31352
that link shows the chapter picture where kakashi exsplains his rasengan

[Deadpool]

I see, thank you for explaining that it was all complicated...

[majinsharingan]

So his rasengan isn't of the Wind Element or any element. Therefore it's weaker, therefore Chidori becomes his strongest attack, that's why he uses Chidori. aahhhh

[Tsukiko]

Kakashi learned Rasengan??? dont you mean Chidori?

[majinsharingan]

no. Rasengan.
He knows both.
He created chidori

[Deadpool]

Kakashi learned Rasengan??? dont you mean Chidori?
No, read the spoilers, ProNarutoExpert posted...

[Summer.]

Kakashi learned Rasengan??? dont you mean Chidori?

rasengan is the right thing ;)

if you don't read manga you can't know. xD

[Tsukiko]

Oh..yeah..I dont read it. :p haa...>.>

[Summer.]

Oh..yeah..I dont read it. :p haa...>.>

you should start it, cuz it's awesome^^ =P

[Tsukiko]

I was...but..I sorta stopped...xD I dont really like reading stuff online. ><

[Summer.]

I don't like read it without music, that's why I watch it on youtube, always from the same person. his work is amazing, you feel like watching anime, cause he always picks the right music^^

[Tsukiko]

oh really?? reading with music..sounds better. xD

[Summer.]

oh really?? reading with music..sounds better. xD

yep, try it from andybell1653. he's the best :)

[Deadpool]

Summer, you wach from him two? Hehe... And yeah he is very good!

[iRob]

the 4th maybe??

[shizuka raikou]

i think he had a little training from the forth... copied how to do the jutsu with rasengan... and with the chakra training from the fourth he preformed the jutsu very quickly

[Deadpool]

Guys you dont read the thread dont you? In the 4th ProNarutoExpet showed how he did the "rasengan", that isnt really a rasengan...

[Summer.]

Summer, you wach from him two? Hehe... And yeah he is very good!

yeah, I do.
well, when I watch it first time I watch it on naruto island cuz they get it faster than youtube. but when I watch it second time...-andy rules^^

[wiper]

dd really kakshie learned hoe to use shasengan?? i ddnt know that, maybe bcoz his teacher s d 4rth

[Deadpool]

omg this thread would needs to be closed nobody reads the threads, ProNarutoExpert show you an cut from a manga nad explain, that is kakashi explained how he learnd the rasengan! omg... Anyway andy is great. First i didnt wach at all when i heard about from my freind that andy dose great music in manga... Id wanted to see, and now im really stick on him...

[Summer.]

dd really kakshie learned hoe to use shasengan?? i ddnt know that, maybe bcoz his teacher s d 4rth

kakashi never learned how to use shasengan.

[Soul]

um..... yes he did...

[Summer.]

um..... yes he did...

um... no he didn't...
cuz there is no jutsu with such name.

[Soul]

um.... he copied the jutsu, same way he copied rock lee taijutsu -_-

[majinsharingan]

um.... he copied the jutsu, same way he copied rock lee taijutsu -_-

he copied the sharingan?
Wow.
No okay, you go.
You go read volumes 1 through 42.
You are not aloud in bookstore or manga battledome.
Go read.
Go read.

Edit: My bad just realized you meant the rasengan. That doesn't change my answer though. The fourth [I]taught/I] him it. You can't copy something lke that

[Summer.]

um.... he copied the jutsu, same way he copied rock lee taijutsu -_-

you still didn't get my point. well i won't explain.

[Phoenix]

Minato probably taught it to Kakashi. Sasuke probably couldn't do Rasengan because it's not any normal jutsu but it's special type of jutsu.

[TsuHanyou]

no sasukes element isnt wind

[jawonb13]

I think Minato taught Kakashi the rasengan because it would make sense. Kakashi taught himself Chidori. Since he learned Chidori quickly

[majinsharingan]

^^He created Chidori.
"This is my one and only original technique" *forms Chidori*

[Uzumaki Naruto 13]

I think Minato taught Kakashi the rasengan because it would make sense. Kakashi taught himself Chidori. Since he learned Chidori quickly

[tkn104]

guys guys, kakashi learned how to do it himself since he knows the fundamentals of the chidori and how to change its chakra state. Ez CheeZe


and yes i belive sasuke can perform rasengan since he is a pretty smart kid hell probably get the move down in 1 day of training

[majinsharingan]

guys guys, kakashi learned how to do it himself since he knows the fundamentals of the chidori and how to change its chakra state. Ez CheeZe


No he didn't.
Minato taught him.


and yes i belive sasuke can perform rasengan since he is a pretty smart kid hell probably get the move down in 1 day of training

Sasuke 100% does not know Rasengan.
Sasuke's element is Fire and Lightning for one. For two, he doesn't know Rasengan.

[hmvv]

i think minato taught rasengan and i think kakashi used that chakra control to create chidori .

the sharingan can copy and technique fact. but i think its harder to learn a move like that as it is just chakra control. sasuke wud of seen it with his sharingan and probably knows how to do it if he tried but how effectivly sraight away? i dnt think very.

[**Marisa**]

minato taught him, and than kakashi wanted to mix his own lightening chakra into it, but did not manage, so he invented chidori instead...

[rjvcrisen]

I think i read somewhere the Kakashi was taught by Minato how to use rasengan but Kakashi tried to make his own variation of it, hence Chidori.

[OrochimaruKakashi]

then he invented a more powerful version of Chidori which we all have come to know as Lightning Blade!!!!

come to think of it Kashi has invented many jutsus....who could forget.....1000 YEARS OF PAIN!?!? hehe....I love that's jutsu...it's so funny!! LOL

[**Marisa**]

then he invented a more powerful version of Chidori which we all have come to know as Lightning Blade!!!!

come to think of it Kashi has invented many jutsus....who could forget.....1000 YEARS OF PAIN!?!? hehe....I love that's jutsu...it's so funny!! LOL

yeah, i loved the first time it was used on naruto... it was so funny and when naruto tried to use it on kakashi in shippuuden... rofl

[Shishi Uchiha]

i think kakashi learned rasengan right after obito died then minato tought kakashi rasengan and tells kakasho to use rasengan to protect wats close to him:)

[Incendiary]

This is a very interesting question because Sasuke cannot control wind element jutsus, like Naruto. He only does fire and lightning.

But nor does Kakashi, unless he is a multi-element user.. he can use lightning-based Chidori, wind Rasengan, water jutsus... which means he is proficient at several types of elements.
He is a genius, after all. xD

[hmvv]

But nor does Kakashi, unless he is a multi-element user.. he can use lightning-based Chidori, wind Rasengan, water jutsus... which means he is proficient at several types of elements.
He is a genius, after all. xD

normal rasengan isnt elemental based. its not wind and the one kakashi did wasnt wind it was normal.

[**Marisa**]

normal rasengan isnt elemental based. its not wind and the one kakashi did wasnt wind it was normal.

True, rasengan is simply normal chakra compressed in a ball...
And i have to repeat myself: Kakashi had learned rasengan before he invented chidori...it was said, that he tried to mix his lightening chakra into rasengan but could not so he invented raikiri...

[hibar90]

Haha if you read the comic Kakashi learn rasengan before chidori. When he teach naruto to learn rasen shuuriken he said he was going to add pightning chakra to rasengan but he fail. So he create chidori instead. This also show that kakashi thinks chidori is better than rasengan if you have sharingan and talent in lightning manipulation.

[**Marisa**]

Haha if you read the comic Kakashi learn rasengan before chidori. When he teach naruto to learn rasen shuuriken he said he was going to add pightning chakra to rasengan but he fail. So he create chidori instead.

And what else have i said? :confused:

[hibar90]

Sry m8 I just reply after reading like the 1st page.

[**Marisa**]

Sry m8 I just reply after reading like the 1st page.

nothing wrong, ;)
i just said i have said the exact same thing.
Well we both are right, anyway :)

[duckofdoom99]

Kakashi doesn't necessarily think chidori is better then rasengan. He just doesn't use rasengan because he can't mix his elemental jutsu with it.

[hibar90]

Kakashi doesn't necessarily think chidori is better then rasengan. He just doesn't use rasengan because he can't mix his elemental jutsu with it.

The fact that he master both when he was under the supervision of 4th hokage prove that chidori is superior. Rasengan is pure chakra spatial manipulation at its highest as chidori is elemental manipulation at his highest plus a little bit of spatial.

Kakashi doesn't necessarily think chidori is better then rasengan. He just doesn't use rasengan because he can't mix his elemental jutsu with it.

So why would he thinks otherwise?

[Xinobi]

Don't double post...

I think he learned it before he learned Chidori. He had to. Since he couldn't merge lightening with the rasengan he had to make another affective attack.

[duckofdoom99]

Rasengan and chidori are equal in the hands of capable users. But since kakahshi is lightning elemental he would prefer to use the lightning elemental jutsu rather then the rasengan. Pretty much chidori is rasengan with the spinning replaced by lightning. So rather the spin chakra he would naturally like to use his element because it would be much easier for him.

[Xinobi]

Rasengan and chidori are equal in the hands of capable users. But since kakahshi is lightning elemental he would prefer to use the lightning elemental jutsu rather then the rasengan. Pretty much chidori is rasengan with the spinning replaced by lightning. So rather the spin chakra he would naturally like to use his element because it would be much easier for him.

Yeah that is kinda true but the overall reason was listed in my post. It is directly from the manga. Not trying to 1 up you, just saying.

[duckofdoom99]

Yeah i agree with you i was just responding to hibar about why kakashi chooses to use 1 over the other. I probably should have quoted him, o well. Also i think he uses it as convenient plot line to teach sasuke a jutsu that would be equal to rasengan, at least b4 wind is added to it.

[hibar90]

Rasengan and chidori are equal in the hands of capable users. But since kakahshi is lightning elemental he would prefer to use the lightning elemental jutsu rather then the rasengan. Pretty much chidori is rasengan with the spinning replaced by lightning. So rather the spin chakra he would naturally like to use his element because it would be much easier for him.

Which actually shows if you have the talent master chidori instead. Chidori is not for sale. Rasengan is still better than most. So chidori is easier to use and as powerful. Which sounds more advantageous? Kakashi deliberately prefer to do 3 hand seal rather than creating rasengan. So he actually ignore rasengan only advantage.

[duckofdoom99]

No he uses chidori because it goes with his element. Rasengan and Chidori are equal in terms of power. Also to use rasengan kakashi would have to use sharingan and remember how the 4th taught him to do it and this would tire him out more. So he chooses to use the jutsu he made so he doesn't have to use sharingan. Also once rasengan is mastered it is easier to use. Takes less chakra, can be used a lot more and no hand signs required.

[hibar90]

No he uses chidori because it goes with his element. Rasengan and Chidori are equal in terms of power. Also to use rasengan kakashi would have to use sharingan and remember how the 4th taught him to do it and this would tire him out more. So he chooses to use the jutsu he made so he doesn't have to use sharingan. Also once rasengan is mastered it is easier to use. Takes less chakra, can be used a lot more and no hand signs required.

You are entitled to think rasengan is better or equal because you like rasengan more. It's fine to do this. I'm not forcing anything. This thread is how kakashi learned rasengan. Discuss this chidori vs rasengan in the right topic.

Sry off topic again but I feel I have to correct this. Sharingan give you a photographic like memory. Once it is stored in your brain you don't need sharingan to do it. It's like reading a book (read chapter 321 page 8). You need sharingan anyway to do chidori otherwise It will be too dangerous to use (chidori flaw). So if rasengan require less chakra and no sharingan why don't kakashi use this? My opinion rasengan doesn't take less chakra, naruto has infinite chakra that's why he can do like 20 of them. If it was sasuke he could probably do it twice. It never say require less chakra.It probably eat more chakra with chidori plus sharingan combine. The more chakra you invest the powerful the outcome, it's common sense using kagenbunshin as example. The masters of rasengan (4th, jiraiya who don't need kagebunshin to make it) doesn't even use rasengan as often as naruto even though they can do it more effectively. The 4th (yellow flash) invented rasengan and it's not even his signature move and the same goes for jiraiya (toad hermit). Both probably think what a crappy jutsu since it's incomplete (321 page 10). Kakashi learned it from the 4th.

[majinsharingan]

Just for the record Hibar, Rasengan is much stronger than Chidori.
The reason Kakashi uses Chidori over Rasengan is that his Rasengan is crap. It's smaller than Oodama but less dense than Naruto's. His Chidori is stronger than his Rasengan.
Chidori is loose and not dense at all. It's chakra that's so unstable it's leaking and shooting out.
Rasengan is incredibly dense and spinning which makes a bigger impact that Chidori which shoots straight through, Rasengan will go through but all destroy your organs and such, it has a much much stronger impact.
And before you say anything like you did to duck, I like Chidori better.

[hibar90]

Well, I have bring prove why chidori would pwn rasengan if it was sasuke vs sasuke or kakashi vs kakashi. You really think kakashi rasengan is below naruto? It's suppose to be small, you put the spinning chakra into a small shape so it's more dense you said it yourself. The bigger the worse logically it works that way. Increase spin (apply more chkara) to increase power not size. Kakashi rasengan is slightly weaker than a small rasenshuriken. This shows it is a perfect rasengan (chapter 339 page 12-13). Why would kakashi rasengan is weaker than his chidori? I still don't get it. He seems to master both perfectly. He has to master rasengan perfectly 1st and try to put lightning. Then he can fail all he wants and create small version from what he originally intended, he calls it chidori. He even master rasengan more than naruto since he doesn't need kage bunshin to do it.

It was naruto vs sasuke. Naruto can summon gamabunta which would sit on sasuke till he died. At the roof fight naruto is definitely the victor for having more chakra and work harder than sasuke (mastering such strong jutsu like rasengan) proving that naruto was stronger than him and he was pissed at himself. This doesn't mean if 1 sasuke with rasengan will pwn the other sasuke with chidori (same amount of chakra apply to both jutsu). Look you can say all you want but if you want to deny my hypotheses bring out your own with analysis. Otherwise leave mine be. 1st you said rasengan is stronger then you said kakashi rasengan is weaker than chidori. Make up your mind. Same person mastering same 2 jutsu and preferring it over the other mean it is better. Where do you get this rasengan>>>>>>>chidori from? If the writer says so please show me the article or his statement (personal not through character). Still, I think my analysis is solid but if kishi said otherwise, I will apologize and humbly take what I've said.

4th jiraiya can't master chidori because it's flawed (no sharingan) and don't master lightning element. If I have a gun and knife which can kill either way, I choose gun because it's stronger even though I have to invest more (bullet is a metaphor for sharingan and lightning talent). I'm sick reading "rasengan is better because the 4th made it and naruto can use all day" or "it made the bigger hole thus it wins" when sasuke trains on the cliff with kakashi he made a bigger hole than rasengan ever made (chapter 128 page 09).

[majinsharingan]

You really think kakashi rasengan is below naruto?

It is, Kakashi's is smaller, and it's not Oodama Rasengan, it's just a Mini-Regular Rasengan.

Kakashi rasengan is slightly weaker than a small rasenshuriken.

No it's not, not even close. Rasenshurikan is the second strongest attack alive, Kakashi's Rasengan is definitely not the same as that.

This shows it is a perfect rasengan (chapter 339 page 12-13).

So you have read that chapter.

Why would kakashi rasengan is weaker than his chidori? I still don't get it. He seems to master both perfectly. He has to master rasengan perfectly 1st and try to put lightning. Then he can fail all he wants and create small version from what he originally intended, he calls it chidori. He even master rasengan more than naruto since he doesn't need kage bunshin to do it.

He didn't master is more than Naruto...you can't master something MORE than someone. Mastering something means there's nothing left to learn.
I can master walking but you can't master walking MORE than me, once someone walks they walk, they don't upgrade to the moon walk after a while.


1st you said rasengan is stronger then you said kakashi rasengan is weaker than chidori.

Rasengan is stronger than Kakashi's Rasengan.
Kakashi's Chidori is referred to as Rakiri because it was denser and stronger than Chidori, which he also created. Go figure, right? Now Kakashi doesn't have as much chakra as Minato, Naruto or Jiriaya, so it makes sense that there's less chakra in his, seeing as he can use it twice and be fine, because Kakashi vs. Zabuza is wore out all his chakra fairly fast doing pretty much a summoning jutsu, Rakiri and one or two other jutsu.

I'm sick reading "rasengan is better because the 4th made it and naruto can use all day" or "it made the bigger hole thus it wins" when sasuke trains on the cliff with kakashi he made a bigger hole than rasengan ever made


I never once said the Rasengan is better because of that, personally I think the 4th is overrated.
Second of all, Rasen Shurikan made a hole deeper than the one the four tails did unless they changed it in the subbed version.
Also, I think that the bigger hole was Kakashi's.
Also that doesn't matter, cause when Sasuke hit Naruto with Chidori it went through him, and he did the same exact thing Kabuto did when he was BARELY hit with Rasengan, except the difference is that Kabuto was still pretty screwed up and Naruto was fine.

[Soul]

Chidori only owns rasengan, because rasengan has no elemental recompostion.

now that naruto can add wind element to his rasengan, he can probably own chidori.

[majinsharingan]

Chidori only owns rasengan, because rasengan has no elemental recompostion.

now that naruto can add wind element to his rasengan, he can probably own chidori.

Chidori never owned Rasengan.
Episode 107, showed what happened when those two attacks crashed into the exact same thing. That's more than enough proof to show Rasengan is stronger.

[hibar90]

It is, Kakashi's is smaller, and it's not Oodama Rasengan, it's just a Mini-Regular Rasengan.

No it's not, not even close. Rasenshurikan is the second strongest attack alive, Kakashi's Rasengan is definitely not the same as that.

So you have read that chapter.

He didn't master is more than Naruto...you can't master something MORE than someone. Mastering something means there's nothing left to learn.
I can master walking but you can't master walking MORE than me, once someone walks they walk, they don't upgrade to the moon walk after a while.

Rasengan is stronger than Kakashi's Rasengan.
Kakashi's Chidori is referred to as Rakiri because it was denser and stronger than Chidori, which he also created. Go figure, right? Now Kakashi doesn't have as much chakra as Minato, Naruto or Jiriaya, so it makes sense that there's less chakra in his, seeing as he can use it twice and be fine, because Kakashi vs. Zabuza is wore out all his chakra fairly fast doing pretty much a summoning jutsu, Rakiri and one or two other jutsu.

I never once said the Rasengan is better because of that, personally I think the 4th is overrated.
Second of all, Rasen Shurikan made a hole deeper than the one the four tails did unless they changed it in the subbed version.
Also, I think that the bigger hole was Kakashi's.
Also that doesn't matter, cause when Sasuke hit Naruto with Chidori it went through him, and he did the same exact thing Kabuto did when he was BARELY hit with Rasengan, except the difference is that Kabuto was still pretty screwed up and Naruto was fine.

By saying I have read the chapter you mean your previous sentence was incorrect and kakashi rasengan was perfect? They all master it except naruto since he needs kagebunshin. This take out rasengan 1 advantage. But apart from kakashi and possibly the 4th, jiraiya and naruto tune their rasengan to their own style. Rasenshuuriken pwn all. I refer to the chapter because you said "kakashi rasengan is crap", well it's not. It's as strong as normal rasengan. The one the 4th oroginally created (not oodama not ultimate). If kakashi is a pro at rasengan than naruto is slightly below him with his own rasengan at his sleeve (stronger than original). Lol, naruto get pierced in the lung and survive, what universe kishi has made. Kabuto get hit point blank with rasengan, he did something to repair tissue immediately. It was a full blow head on. BOOM. Look why don't you bring me an article saying rasengan is stronger than chidori by kishimoto. And all along I never refer to raikiri because that is an S-type and chidori and rasengan is A-type. But one gotta be stronger. It was a bigger hole because naruto invest more chakra.

[Raikage's left hand]

I'm not really convinced Kakashi can use it very well. It seems very similar to when Naruto tried to use it on Tsunade when he tried it and failed she said he couldn't use it, i think it may be the same way with Kakashi.

But it may be he just doesn't like using it and prefers his Chidori more so his Rasengan wouldn't be as good as Naruto's whom uses Rasengan almost exclusively.

[FireNinja]

Jariya or the 4th probuly just to it to him

[hibar90]

I'm not really convinced Kakashi can use it very well. It seems very similar to when Naruto tried to use it on Tsunade when he tried it and failed she said he couldn't use it, i think it may be the same way with Kakashi.

But it may be he just doesn't like using it and prefers his Chidori more so his Rasengan wouldn't be as good as Naruto's whom uses Rasengan almost exclusively.

Is my reference page not strong enough? I don't get you guys. Kakashi rasengan was perfect and he create chidori by decreasing the spatial composition and adding elemental. Bring refrence when you are proving something don't just "Oh the 4th use t so it's tronger".

[Raikage's left hand]

It wasn't perfect.

It looked exactly the same as when Naruto tried to use it on Tsunade. She said there's no use trying to teach him a jutsu like that because he couldn't use it. He later perfected it by performing it using a shadow clone.

[hmvv]

jirya stated that rasengan is stronger than chidori but that was because rasengan was an uncomplete jutsu. rasengan against chidori rasengan wins as it is wind element but if it was kakashis then it wud be equal. i think the reason kakashi uses chidori more is because ITS HIS DAMN MOVE!!! besides chidori will peirce nething and rasengan is an explosion like move both r useful in different situations chidori is definatly best 4 a qwik qwite kill wile rasengan is just power.

[Haku Uchiha-32]

what epsode did kaksish use the resangon?

[**Marisa**]

what epsode did kaksish use the resangon?

eps are not there yet!
It only was shown in manga chapter... don,t know the number of it, right now...

[Neji'sEyes]

To copy the Rasengan Is difficult because I believe that It requires a lot of training and discipline.
To try and master all of your chakra In a ball Is difficult I believe.
But to copy It with his advanced Sharingan would be possible but I am not sure.
I think he trained hard to do It or maybe asked Jiraya to help him.
Even though Jiraya can do It automatically I believe that Kakashi shouldnt do Rasengan,He should stick to Chidori.

[GoodBoy456]

1. well kakashi is more experianced with copying
2. in the shippuden sasuke should be able to copy it and hes waiting for naruto to use it so he can kill itachi with it

[hibar90]

Assuming naruto small rasenshuuriken is at least stronger than naruto normal rasengan (normal not oodama). Kakashi told him to collide it with Kakashi rasengan. Kakashi lost by a thin margin (assuming his hand is still there). So from this confrontation I assume that Kakashi rasengan is as strong as the original rasengan that the 4th created. In other word he master rasengan.

[majinsharingan]

A lot of chakra goes into Rasengan.
Kakashi gets exhausted very easily, so using two Rasengan should have him at his limit, but it didn't, which means less chakra is in his that Naruto's, which means it is weaker, and also Kakashi asked Naruto to collide his RASENGAN with Kakashi's Rasengan.
Not Rasen Shurikan.

[IownU]

learned from yondaime

[Rampaging_Demon]

Kakashi himself was a student of the 4th, so I think he probably had a bit of both the sharingan and training to help him do it. Just my thoughts.

[StareIntoMySharingan]

I think the fourth hokage taught him...

[TsuHanyou]

No, he copied it.

[StareIntoMySharingan]

No, he copied it.

And you know this how???

[Mangekyo_Sharingan_BB]

I think Kakashi
learned the Rasengan simply cause he is a freakin ninja G

[kakashiitachi07]

Kakashi copied the jutsu he already had the precise chakra control from using his chidori and raikiri So copying rasengan was not difficult because its not elemental chakra but if it was naruto's complete rasengan he would not be able to copy it

[Uchiha-Madara]

yeah its true, he says it in the manga and i think in the anime as well, i think he talks about it when he first shows naruto

[TsuHanyou]

Kakashi copied the jutsu he already had the precise chakra control from using his chidori and raikiri So copying rasengan was not difficult because its not elemental chakra but if it was naruto's complete rasengan he would not be able to copy it

Excactly.

[vane]

well Kakashi was Minato's student. Im pretty sure he's seen it many times. And it took Minato 3 years to develop the jutsu and it has been over 16 years that Kakashi has known about it and had that much time to be able to do it.

[Teh4th:)]

He just copied it.
I too was shocked seeing Kakashi using it.
Using his Sharingan he copied Rasengan.

[vane]

Well yes but like I said he also had a very long time to improve himself being able to use it.

[Teh4th:)]

Okay. :)

[TsuHanyou]

Dont spam please.
And yes thats probably right.

[jirayassecret]

kakashi learned it. sharingan might help a little as far as the ingredients, but you cant just do any technique as a sharingan user. Example. kakashi cannot combine two elements into one technique. naruto did with his rasenshuriken rasengan. "surpassing" kakashi.

[Seattleboy93]

I think kakashi watched a few shinobi, namely Minato, Jiraiya, and Naruto do the rasengan. In watching them he learned how to do it, but still had to practice to be able to do it. The sharingan can see the flow of chakra, as stated many times by different sharingan users. The rasengan simply flows chakra in every which way while keeping in a condensed ball in your hand. He probably watched the flow of the chakra while someone was using rasengan, and then understood what he had to do to be able to do it.

[jirayassecret]

yea, its a two year jutsu that ALL jounin SHOULD be able to learn given practice . Not many know of it except the original crew. Kakashi definitely learned it with practice. Not as easy as chakra molding (hand signs). Thinking about it, ninjas would probly do well not teaching everyone their personal tricks. not likely anyone else will use the rasengan, but would'nt it freak you out if Sasuke confronts naruto with a rasengan and laughs?

[uchiha316]

i think the fourth hokagae taught it to because he waz his sensei or ethier he analized it wit his sharingan

[Phoenix]

Minato probably taught Kakashi it.