Minato vs. Pein (OFFICIAL THREAD)

[Muffin]

True he didn't.
My mistake, thanks for clearing that up :)
Actually here's Sasuke using Body Flicker
http://img7.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000357/08.jpg
http://img7.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000357/09.jpg
http://img7.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/00000357/10.jpg

Very different to Minato's version he used.

[vane]

We both agreed he used body flicker. But he didnt use it and move 10 miles. We're talking about when he used genjutsu on Manda and was summoned really far from where they fought.

[Muffin]

We both agreed he used body flicker. But he didnt use it and move 10 miles. We're talking about when he used genjutsu on Manda and was summoned really far from where they fought.

Well we know he used manda to swallow him, and Suigetsu summoned Manda to a different place afterwards, but Sasuke still couldn't use his jutsu to move fast enough and was still hit by the blast.

And i also showed when Sasuke used Shunshin no jutsu in the fight in another instance.

[Tatsu]

*sigh*

You both have been completely confused. A Shunshin, otherwise known as a body flicker is only a rapid movement of the body. Now, Sasuke has never used the kuchiyose technique, or the "Time-space travel" technique because he is unable to learn it. Sasuke is not even the rank of even learning this technique, let alone understand it. Sasuke has been using body flickers the entire time, yet he is very good at the body flicker because he has trained it so much to where they could not sense the dirt trails following behind after that split second reaction.

The only people capable of teaching the kuchiyose would be the 4th hokage, Kakashi, and the 3rd. Now, Naruto is able to learn it because truly his father was the 4th and he has the will to surpass it. The kuchiyose is not passed down to just random people, it is hand selected for a few for a reason. The only reason Tobi has it is because he was one of the first to ever learn the technique, becuase he is Madara, the founder of the leaf village. Muffin, he has been using body flickers the entire time, he just uses them differently at some points. When in battle they are faster because he is actually having a head start before using the shunshin.

When he is just standing still, it is not as fast, but yet it still leaves the user invisible to the un-trained eye once used. Do not argue over it. The kuchiyose would have never been passed down to sasuke because Orochimaru did not know it.

[Masterofdeath]

*sigh*

You both have been completely confused. A Shunshin, otherwise known as a body flicker is only a rapid movement of the body. Now, Sasuke has never used the kuchiyose technique, or the "Time-space travel" technique because he is unable to learn it. Sasuke is not even the rank of even learning this technique, let alone understand it. Sasuke has been using body flickers the entire time, yet he is very good at the body flicker because he has trained it so much to where they could not sense the dirt trails following behind after that split second reaction.

The only people capable of teaching the kuchiyose would be the 4th hokage, Kakashi, and the 3rd. Now, Naruto is able to learn it because truly his father was the 4th and he has the will to surpass it. The kuchiyose is not passed down to just random people, it is hand selected for a few for a reason. The only reason Tobi has it is because he was one of the first to ever learn the technique, becuase he is Madara, the founder of the leaf village. Muffin, he has been using body flickers the entire time, he just uses them differently at some points. When in battle they are faster because he is actually having a head start before using the shunshin.

When he is just standing still, it is not as fast, but yet it still leaves the user invisible to the un-trained eye once used. Do not argue over it. The kuchiyose would have never been passed down to sasuke because Orochimaru did not know it.

You are completly right!!!!!! Body flicker is not a times space jutsu, however Fly Thundergod is. Unfortunetly as powerful as Naruto and Kakashi are I don't believe Naruto will master the flying thundergod even though it is a good possibilty. I believe naruto will become a master shinobi because he learn to use the Rasengan in several ways. Such as turning the rasengan into several Kunai shaped attacks, learning to move the rasenshurikan with his chakra alone line a connection line, using it in its basic form, making it into the great ball form, making his shadow clone use the rasengan as well, make that rasengan cannon jutsu as the Kyuubi did in his fight against Orochimaru. He will also make his shadow clones very powerful by making them be able to explode etc. He will most likely be a master wind and earth jutsu user. However, I don't think he will ever learn the Flying Thundergod. No one can teach him. Jiraiya is dead, Kakashi can't use it and if he could we would surely have known by now, and the 3rd can't teach him because he is dead.

[vane]

*sigh*

You both have been completely confused. A Shunshin, otherwise known as a body flicker is only a rapid movement of the body. Now, Sasuke has never used the kuchiyose technique, or the "Time-space travel" technique because he is unable to learn it. Sasuke is not even the rank of even learning this technique, let alone understand it. Sasuke has been using body flickers the entire time, yet he is very good at the body flicker because he has trained it so much to where they could not sense the dirt trails following behind after that split second reaction.

The only people capable of teaching the kuchiyose would be the 4th hokage, Kakashi, and the 3rd. Now, Naruto is able to learn it because truly his father was the 4th and he has the will to surpass it. The kuchiyose is not passed down to just random people, it is hand selected for a few for a reason. The only reason Tobi has it is because he was one of the first to ever learn the technique, becuase he is Madara, the founder of the leaf village. Muffin, he has been using body flickers the entire time, he just uses them differently at some points. When in battle they are faster because he is actually having a head start before using the shunshin.

When he is just standing still, it is not as fast, but yet it still leaves the user invisible to the un-trained eye once used. Do not argue over it. The kuchiyose would have never been passed down to sasuke because Orochimaru did not know it.

Which is exactly what I was saying. He doesnt know anything like that. That has basically been the arguement the whole time.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

[QUOTE]You both have been completely confused. A Shunshin, otherwise known as a body flicker is only a rapid movement of the body. Now, Sasuke has never used the kuchiyose technique, or the "Time-space travel" technique because he is unable to learn it. Sasuke is not even the rank of even learning this technique, let alone understand it.

This is correct until Chapter 395 comes out, if Marissa's Script was right, it proves the Sharingan is capable of Time-Space Jutsu, and proves you wrong.

The only people capable of teaching the kuchiyose would be the 4th hokage, Kakashi, and the 3rd. Now, Naruto is able to learn it because truly his father was the 4th and he has the will to surpass it. The kuchiyose is not passed down to just random people, it is hand selected for a few for a reason.

Dude wtf are you talking about.

Minato.
Kakashi.
Naruto.
Jiriaya.
Pein.
Tsunade.
Sarutobi.
Sasuke.
Sakura(possibly)
Temari.
Gaara(Pre-Skip)
Kisame
Deidara
Madara

All these people and more can use that technique.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Kuchiyose is Summoning Jutsu.

The only reason Tobi has it is because he was one of the first to ever learn the technique, becuase he is Madara, the founder of the leaf village.

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Tobi has never been shown using the Summoning Jutsu.
Tobi is ____dara not Madara.
Shodamine and Nidamine formed the Leaf Village.

Do not argue over it. The kuchiyose would have never been passed down to sasuke because Orochimaru did not know it.

Before you tell me not to argue you should get your facts straight because you are talking nonsense.
Vane JUST posted Sasuke using the Summoning Jutsu.

You are completly right!!!!!! Body flicker is not a times space jutsu, however Fly Thundergod is.

No it's not, it's a targeted Body Flicker.

[hyugamaster]

pein because his power is closest to the creator....

[Masterofdeath]

No. Yodaime period.

[Gära]

4th hokage

[rushballen1]

Who will win Minato vs. Pein.

[PriscillaXOXOXOX]

I just think Pain i super strong. I mean, he killed the dude who named Jiraiya, Orohimaru, and Tsunade.

[Super Luigi]

pein

[Haver]

I bet on pein, 'cause he has rinnengan, wich is kinda strong!

[rushballen1]

I think Pein to because he is just so strong and he has the rinnenegan and its the strongest of the three eye techniques.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

Minato would win this hands down IMO as his flying thundergod would be way too much for Pein to handle.

[Haver]

even so, it's 6 corpses, plus summoninig techniques vs. yondaime, it wouldn't be easy at all

[gunner]

i thik minato would probably win!! Haver suck´s(just kiding):p

[Uzumaki Naruto 13]

i thank minato would win his strong

[rushballen1]

Strength Is Not The Only Matter!

[Uzuki]

even so, it's 6 corpses, plus summoninig techniques vs. yondaime, it wouldn't be easy at all

6 isn't exactly all that impressive. Don't forget, we've seen Minato kill an entire army before by himself. Minato does move faster than even the Sharingan can track.

[Masterofdeath]

It was just proven in the manga that Tobi is Madara!!!!!! Majinsharingan how about you do your research.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Actually it was proven in chapter 364 that he is ____dara.
And made it almost certain that he is ____dara in 397.

It's standard writing techniques, fairly easy to recognize.

[Masterofdeath]

No, you are making an assumption based off of other anime

[gunner]

its a good question but we dont know much things about yondaime but WE know that is stronger!! Pein is defenitly strongand he have the rin'negan and his 6 "bodys"!! But my votte goes to yondaime :D

[Doctor Octogonapus]

No, you are making an assumption based off of other anime

No actually I'm not.
Tobi is Obidara, that's an assumption.
Tobi is ___dara, that is actually fact.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

lol majin everytime i see you someone's arguing about the ___dara (Obito) thing with you... i feel bad for u man If i were u i would be getting rele frustrated

[Masterofdeath]

lol majin everytime i see you someone's arguing about the ___dara (Obito) thing with you... i feel bad for u man If i were u i would be getting rele frustrated

He doesn't get it, but he is wrong.

[Sandrock]

Hey All new to this site/forum... wicked job so far on this debate.

Just read most of that ... holy crap... I'm going with Minato/Yondaime/4th Hokage.

Here's what I think..
.. If the characters fast.. he's fast.. just because the opponent can see him.. doesn't make him teleporting/bodyflicker.. although it seems to be "labelled" as that when they can't see him.... ei - sasuke (pic of manga fightin deidra/tobi) - and all the others like that -
.. if the charcter dodges and attack.. he's got some speed... doesn't mean he teleported/bodyflicker... the one dude seems really anal about the issue...

Pain's secret - who gives a flyin fawk (i personally believe its just negato somehow gave the rinnegan to all and is "controling" them - who all happend to be someone Jiryia has met) ..but he's basically 6 bodies+ all connected through there eyes... controls all elemental chakras... . yada yada... Rinnegan prolly has more secrets and crap based on the sharrigan alone.. which has like what 4 abilities or something? ... About Jiriya the only one to beat him.. come the Fawk on.... he went ALL out... took out 3, they were brought back, "magically" took 1 out with his barrier..then got killed... the only reason the dead "pain" wasnt brought back cause the toad took him away.. Pain seemed to do this with Lil effort.. didnt see to much sweat on his head in the manga...

Why my guy would win.. in my opinion... his "teleportation" - if he's going into a fight he's gunna have some Kunai on him.. prolly with some seals on em... chucks em.. trasports.. throws out some rasengans.. plants more seals as he goes... he could prolly shadowclone to.. using them... gotta remember this guys a "genius" something that comes along once in a generation..as i think its stated.. (made the rasengan- tried to add the manipulation element but was unable.) - one would also think he came up with the death seal? (last resort like against the kyubi - makes 6 clones.. all grab onto a Pain ... end of story.. yet he would die - still the victor - in a sence ) - cause once its used.. your dead.. so unless he seen someone else do it.. but who.. cause the 3rd was still alive and Jariya alive.. - so if he know it.. anyways...

Please don't bash me to hard.. Very little is said of the Character (4th) to really grasp what he was capable of but common.. a hokage.. at his age.. fear like he was by the enemy, respected by most everyone else I imagine.. - thats saying something . That could be said about Pain to...

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Minato can use 7 jutsu, that has been confirmed.
Minato also is completely overrated.
He's said to be the strongest ever when if you dig deeper, it's clearly not true.
He was feared for nothing more than a simple D-Level Justu, and then made it even more illusionary by adding the seals to the picture, making it seem that he can be anywhere at anytime, using unrivaled speed, when in fact it was no faster than the body flicker.

lol majin everytime i see you someone's arguing about the ___dara (Obito) thing with you... i feel bad for u man If i were u i would be getting rele frustrated

Nah, used to because there were like 12 guys against me and a few other people, now it's proven and there's only three guys to deal with, it's no trouble at all.

[Sandrock]

Well the 4th had to have been something a lil more special that what you think of him... are you right up to snuff on the magna's? right up the end of 397? When ol Kakashi states that Tobi possess a "space time Ninjutsu even more advanced then the forths" (uses no "seals" or "body Tattoos").. so.. even more advanced then the forths.... you dont really hear about other characters being nicknamed "yellow flash" and all that ... or other characters doing this manover... and being regarded as highly as he was...


My votes still on the 4th.... i love the debating though.

[Muffin]

Minato can use 7 jutsu, that has been confirmed.
Minato also is completely overrated.
He's said to be the strongest ever when if you dig deeper, it's clearly not true.
He was feared for nothing more than a simple D-Level Justu, and then made it even more illusionary by adding the seals to the picture, making it seem that he can be anywhere at anytime, using unrivaled speed, when in fact it was no faster than the body flicker.

Opinion cannot be used as fact. It was never said how many jutsu the 4th can use. The 4th was said to be the strongest the leaf village has ever produced.

If it was so simple then why has noone else ever done it? he wiped out entire armies if thats only using a basic technique then everyone should use it and it wouldn't be such a big deal.

And his speed was real, like Kakashi said teleportation is nothing more than moving really fast so he wasn't using smoke and mirrors using an illusion of moving fast.

[Cross Marian]

Hard to choose. I'm waiting until the debate reaches to the end.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Well the 4th had to have been something a lil more special that what you think of him... are you right up to snuff on the magna's? right up the end of 397? When ol Kakashi states that Tobi possess a "space time Ninjutsu even more advanced then the forths" (uses no "seals" or "body Tattoos").. so.. even more advanced then the forths.... you dont really hear about other characters being nicknamed "yellow flash" and all that ... or other characters doing this manover... and being regarded as highly as he was...

Yet flying thudnergod was no faster than Body Flicker, not to mention, the 4 basics, rasengan, summoning, and death seal.
Only jutsu we know he knew, so we can't give him anymore.

[QUOTE]Opinion cannot be used as fact. It was never said how many jutsu the 4th can use. The 4th was said to be the strongest the leaf village has ever produced.

Yet the manga showed he was completely overrated, and they never said he could use more. So we can't say he knew more.

If it was so simple then why has noone else ever done it? he wiped out entire armies if thats only using a basic technique then everyone should use it and it wouldn't be such a big deal.

Body Flicker is something every genin level+ Ninja knows.
And again, Kishimoto fucked up.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Yondaime would win, Pein big big advantage with 6 path is that he can see his opponent and fight according to it, and that doesnt help vs Yondaime since he moves faster then light and therefore cant be seen even by the Sharingan (only betting there) also Yondaime is said to be the greatest ninja ever produced by Konoha which says something ^^

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

And btw Body flicker and Thunder god is nothing alike, also Yondaime got overlight speed by himself, he was able to catch Kakashi while using Chidori like nothing ^^

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Yet but the manga says more, Kishimoto said Minato was tied for strongest ninja ever, while he is the writer, he is not the story. The story says otherwise.
Minato is not faster than the speed of light, and can be traced since Kakashi managed to compare Tobi to Minato.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

He didnt compare them, he only compared one jutsu, and also Tobi's aka Madara jutsu got alot of downsides, its a Mange jutsu which puts strain on his body ^^

And how do you catch someone using Chidori without insane speed?
And also there is a reason soldiers where told to run on sight if they saw him ^^

[Doctor Octogonapus]

He didnt compare them, he only compared one jutsu, and also Tobi's aka Madara jutsu got alot of downsides, its a Mange jutsu which puts strain on his body ^^

And how do you catch someone using Chidori without insane speed?

Mange isn't anything.
There is no Mange.
No Mange.

Wtf are you talking about?

Tobi is ____dara, not Madara.

Yes he did.
He compared dara's body flicker to Minato's body flicker, to be able to do that, you have to be able to track, sense, and measure. Otherwise it's basically a guessing game, which is not like him.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Mange is Mangekyuo and Tobi is Uchiha Madara, read the latest manga, you know where we see Sasuke use Amaterasu on Tobi aka Madara and that Madara/Tobi tell Sasuke Itatchi might be the biggest hero from Konoha protecting them all ^^

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Mange is Mangekyuo and Tobi is Uchiha Madara, read the latest manga, you know where we see Sasuke use Amaterasu on Tobi aka Madara and that Madara/Tobi tell Sasuke Itatchi might be the biggest hero from Konoha protecting them all ^^

Mangekyo is Mangekyo, Mange is....Mange....

And no he's not, he is ____dara.
8 Months of Debates and Research, he is ____dara, I'm not gonna explain it to you you are just gonna have to dig deeper and read between the lines because trust me, it's never been anymore obvious than it is right now.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

____dara is nobady, and how can you research 8 month when manga comes out last week?

And in last managa they said almost straight forward it was him, and if it isnt him then who is it?

[Doctor Octogonapus]

____dara is nobady, and how can you research 8 month when manga comes out last week?

And in last managa they said almost straight forward it was him, and if it isnt him then who is it?

he is ____Dara.

Part Madara, part someone else.
I've been doing this since the Deidara and Sasuke fight, 8 Months Ago.
It became clear in chapter 397, when the exact side of Tobi's face I said was someone else, was never shown and was hidden the entire time while Madara's while not.
Now no one understands why this is a big deal.

It's simple writing methods, textbook really.
They showed half of Tobi's face, showing Madara, everyone knows it's Madara now, but in a few chapters, the mask will come off again, and there will be two faces on that head, half Madara, half someone else.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

You mean since we saw Oro and Kabuto right?

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Yes like Kabumaru.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Come on please post your evidence or tell us why ^^

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I've told people why, I'm not repeating myself again though, You'll have to look it up.

[Gära]

Mange isn't anything.
There is no Mange.
No Mange.

Wtf are you talking about?

Tobi is ____dara, not Madara.

Yes he did.
He compared dara's body flicker to Minato's body flicker, to be able to do that, you have to be able to track, sense, and measure. Otherwise it's basically a guessing game, which is not like him.

no
u are just retarted

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Gaara what kind of reply is that, if you want to join our debat please use valid arguments ^^

[Muffin]

Yet flying thudnergod was no faster than Body Flicker, not to mention, the 4 basics, rasengan, summoning, and death seal.
Only jutsu we know he knew, so we can't give him anymore.

Yet the manga showed he was completely overrated, and they never said he could use more. So we can't say he knew more.

Going by that Same logic Hiashi is only able to use Kaiten. And Kakashi's father doesn't know any yet was still able to be compared with the sannin.

How has the manga shown him being overrated? it showed only a few glimpses of him and each time they he never even came close to breaking a sweat in fighting any enemies he has fought.

Body Flicker is something every genin level+ Ninja knows.
And again, Kishimoto fucked up.

So because you're wrong you call bad writing?

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Yeah, Yondaime can beat Pein easy ^^

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Going by that Same logic Hiashi is only able to use Kaiten. And Kakashi's father doesn't know any yet was still able to be compared with the sannin.

Sakumo was in the story once and just showed the back of his head.
Hiashi is the head of the Hyuga Bloodline, we know he can use more because he teaches Neji, Hinata, and Hanabi.

Minato on the other hand, no bloodline, no appearances, we know he knows 7 jutsu, so that's how much we are using for this debate.
Because if we just assume he knows those jutsus, I can just assume Pein knows how to be immortal and can summon bombs and guns and can't be hurt.

How has the manga shown him being overrated? it showed only a few glimpses of him and each time they he never even came close to breaking a sweat in fighting any enemies he has fought.


They called him the Greatest Ninja ever to come out of Konoha, when his trump jutsu was nothing more than a Genin level technique.
And I meant the people not the manga.
Just how the people are making Sasuke overrated/underrated.


So because you're wrong you call bad writing?

No, but because Kishimoto made the world's most feared jutsu a genin level technique, I call it bad writing.
Just how Madara formed the Uchiha clan and was born into it.
Just how Madara created the sharingan and activated it just like his brother and family...
Kishimoto says one thing, then says something else that totally contradicts the other, making the argument impossible to win, however in this case, it is not Action and Action, but Action and Information.

So Two Actions, mess everything up, but Action and Information, simply causes people to reconsider the action.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

Sakumo was in the story once and just showed the back of his head.
Hiashi is the head of the Hyuga Bloodline, we know he can use more because he teaches Neji, Hinata, and Hanabi.
But that doesn't prove he can use then (He could just teach them off a scroll like how naruto learned shadow clones correct??)

They called him the Greatest Ninja ever to come out of Konoha, when his trump jutsu was nothing more than a Genin level technique.
Flying thundergod is not Body Flicker (I'll post what I posted before)
the evidence is
-If it was body Flicker they would have called it body flicker
-Body flicker requires no seals at all
-Flying thundergod was compared with a similar technique type and that technique was Tobi/Madaras space time jutsu meaning Flying Thundergod is a space Time jutsu.
-This means it is way beyond even many Jounin and so a good reason to be The Best Hokage ever.

No, but because Kishimoto made the world's most feared jutsu a genin level technique, I call it bad writing.
See above

Just how Madara formed the Uchiha clan and was born into it.
It could be that the Uchihas existed at the time but that Madara was the one that set it up as part of the Leaf village. (Effectively founding the leaf village Uchihas)

Just how Madara created the sharingan and activated it just like his brother and family...
Yeah that one is a bit dodgy

[vane]

Flying thundergod is not Body Flicker (I'll post what I posted before)
the evidence is
-If it was body Flicker they would have called it body flicker
-Body flicker requires no seals at all
-Flying thundergod was compared with a similar technique type and that technique was Tobi/Madaras space time jutsu meaning Flying Thundergod is a space Time jutsu.
-This means it is way beyond even many Jounin and so a good reason to be The Best Hokage ever.

This is exactly the same point I was argueing with him about. You shortened it up better than I but exactly the same thing. Body flicker is not a targeted body flicker. It is a time/space tech. that not to many people can do.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

But that doesn't prove he can use then (He could just teach them off a scroll like how naruto learned shadow clones correct??)

I'm sorry but I've never seen that being done.
Maybe it's just here in the U.S but Teachers, teach from text books, while Trainers, well to say the least...don't.
Hiashi and Neji were training, he wasn't teaching Neji.
For Hiashi to of been teaching in the field with no scroll or anything, he would have to of known the techniques.

Flying thundergod is not Body Flicker (I'll post what I posted before)
the evidence is
-If it was body Flicker they would have called it body flicker
-Body flicker requires no seals at all
-Flying thundergod was compared with a similar technique type and that technique was Tobi/Madaras space time jutsu meaning Flying Thundergod is a space Time jutsu.
-This means it is way beyond even many Jounin and so a good reason to be The Best Hokage ever.

-1. It was Flying thunder God and Rin called it Body Flicker, so not necessarily.

-2. True, as I just stated.

-3. True, as I also stated.

-4. Not necessarily. It looks like no one has tried.

See above

My post is above....

It could be that the Uchihas existed at the time but that Madara was the one that set it up as part of the Leaf village. (Effectively founding the leaf village Uchihas)

lol...sounds like a sports team xDD

Well that could be true, but it said he formed the clan...meaning it couldn't of been a clan at that time because if it was he wouldn't of formed it tell me you got that cause I lost myself half way through....

Yeah that one is a bit dodgy[/QUOTE]

Yep.

This is exactly the same point I was argueing with him about. You shortened it up better than I but exactly the same thing. Body flicker is not a targeted body flicker. It is a time/space tech. that not to many people can do.

You mean Flying Thundergod....Body Flicker is actually body flicker and almost everyone can use it..

[vane]

Yes sorry thats what I meant Flying thundergod.

[Muffin]

Sakumo was in the story once and just showed the back of his head.
Hiashi is the head of the Hyuga Bloodline, we know he can use more because he teaches Neji, Hinata, and Hanabi.

Minato on the other hand, no bloodline, no appearances, we know he knows 7 jutsu, so that's how much we are using for this debate.
Because if we just assume he knows those jutsus, I can just assume Pein knows how to be immortal and can summon bombs and guns and can't be hurt.

Minato was called a master of sealing techniques and a master of time/space jutsu, saying he could only use gennin level techniques is just as ridiculous as saying Hiashi can only use Kaiten, because the only technique Hiashi has ever shown was the Kaiten.

They called him the Greatest Ninja ever to come out of Konoha, when his trump jutsu was nothing more than a Genin level technique.
And I meant the people not the manga.
Just how the people are making Sasuke overrated/underrated.
The difference between Sasuke and Minato is Minato was never shown to be even near the brink of death and was just naturally gifted.



No, but because Kishimoto made the world's most feared jutsu a genin level technique, I call it bad writing.
Just how Madara formed the Uchiha clan and was born into it.
Just how Madara created the sharingan and activated it just like his brother and family...
Kishimoto says one thing, then says something else that totally contradicts the other, making the argument impossible to win, however in this case, it is not Action and Action, but Action and Information.

So Two Actions, mess everything up, but Action and Information, simply causes people to reconsider the action.

How is the flying thundergod a genin technique if it was never shown. It cannot be the same as the one he did to the rock nin as it would take more than a second to kill 50 enemies, and he wiped out the entire 50 of them before a blink of the eye.

[Masterofdeath]

This discussion is dead, so lets just move on.

[gheorghecoser]

Right, but if Pein takes orders from Tobi (who is Madara), why would you think that Pein is the strongest Akatsuki member?

I dunno, I guess my logic is this:

Jiraiya/Kakashi both seem to believe that it's fate that future generations surpass older generations. That would seem to indicate Pein would beat Yondaime, since Pein is younger.

However, Pein is weaker than Madara. Madara has been beaten by the Konoha founder, who is weaker than Yondaime. Thus, Yondaime may be stronger than Madara.

If Pein is weaker than Madara, and Yondaime is stronger than Madara, then Yondaime should be stronger than Pein.
Agree. Yondayme is the strongest Hokage; and the winner of this round:Yondayme vs Pein is Yondayme, of course!!
524

525

[Masterofdeath]

Thank you. conversation closed.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

1, that's not for you to decide.
2, Minato wins, Kishimoto said so. And for further reference, any Sarutobi or Minato thread needs to be immediately closed because of that interview. Unless is Sarutobi vs. Minato.

Minato was called a master of sealing techniques and a master of time/space jutsu, saying he could only use gennin level techniques is just as ridiculous as saying Hiashi can only use Kaiten, because the only technique Hiashi has ever shown was the Kaiten.

No, actually they are two different situations.
Hiashi is for one, alive, and for two the master of the hyuga bloodline.
Minato, no bloodline, and dead.
Until we have been told he could use more than those techniques, we can't assume he could.

[Masterofdeath]

conversation closed, kishi said Minato won there is your answer

[vane]

^^Where is this interview. Is there a way to see it on the net.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^Where is this interview. Is there a way to see it on the net.

Search the Bookstore, it should be in there.

[WhiteFang]

It's very difficult to say coz we don't know the full extent of both Pein's and the Yondaime's powers.Although Pein seems to be really really powerful with his 6 bodies and Rinnegan (check spelling), I'd go for the great Yellow Flash of Konoha. His techniques are awsm... Yellow Flash, Rasengan etc. etc. plus he must have a lot of metal since he fought the Kyuubi one on one and sealed it.

[Masterofdeath]

Minato wins. Don't try to revive a dead conversation.

[Anthony Sky]

who I have no idea ..........................................

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Pein wins this.

Kishimoto didn't say Minato and Sarutobi were the strongest shinobi ever to live. He said Minato and Sarutobi were the strongest dead shinobi. And that there are a couple of living ninja that are stronger than them.
The second ninja is unconfirmed but is either Jiriaya, Itachi, Danzou, one of the two elders, or Kisame. The first ninja, is obviously Pein, as he is by far the strongest living ninja.
Therefore, Kishimoto has said himself(by way of the manga and the interview), Pein wins this.

[D.I.Y Death]

Give the 4th the information Jir learned before he died
and the 4th will have some fighting ground, without that information though theres absolutely no way.
p.s. Hope the 4th is as good as breaking genjutsu as Deidara, because Rinnegan is the birth of both the sharingan and the Byakugan.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Give the 4th the information Jir learned before he died
and the 4th will have some fighting ground, without that information though theres absolutely no way.
p.s. Hope the 4th is as good as breaking genjutsu as Deidara, because Rinnegan is the birth of both the sharingan and the Byakugan.

This is the manga section, spoilers are useless here.
The 4th of course will have some fighting ground without the information.
Minato was much stronger than Jiriaya, remember that.
Although I agree when you implied that the information is vital to defeating Pein.

[hyuga_fan]

minato's instantaneous teleportation jutsu is useless if pein has all of his bodies out
he can just see where he tele'd
pein is one of the greatest ninja ever born
and he is stronger than minato

[DracoPhoenix]

4th Hokage: Yondaime

[MinatoNamikaze]

I have to agree with Majin. Minato is alot stronger than Jiriya and lok at how close Jiriya came to winning. If Minato had the information, it would almost be a cake walk. Pein himself admitted that if Jiriya knew his secret he would have lost. So if Minato had that info, he should be able to cream Pein.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^Yet you and everyone else knows or should know the fact that only Jiriaya could've beaten Pein.
Him and only him.

[MinatoNamikaze]

^^Yet you and everyone else knows or should know the fact that only Jiriaya could've beaten Pein.
Him and only him.

What are you talking about. We said if Minato had the same info as jiriya he would win becasue Minato is a hell of alot stronger than Jiriya

[rush rush]

This thread was made already like three times it needes to be closed!

[Doctor Octogonapus]

What are you talking about. We said if Minato had the same info as jiriya he would win becasue Minato is a hell of alot stronger than Jiriya

Actually, in theory, it's impossible for him to get anything more than a tie.
Assuming he can even kill all 6 of them, he would then have to find the 7th, in which the 6 he killed would be brought back to life by the 7th, then he would be again, fighting the 6 people he just killed, basically repeating the process as long as you want to make yourself believe he can until he dies just as Jiriaya did.
I apologize for my previous statement, Jiriaya couldn't of beat Pein, even with the secret.

[MinatoNamikaze]

This thread was made already like three times it needes to be closed!

Agreed

[Anthony Sky]

rush rush i made this thread a mounth maybe two ago and i made it first
and i think that if Minato had the same info as jiriya he would win becasue Minato is a alot stronger than Jiriya (case closed)

[rush rush]

rush rush i made this thread a mounth maybe two ago and i made it first
and i think that if Minato had the same info as jiriya he would win becasue Minato is a alot stronger than Jiriya (case closedOh i thought it was new nevermind :lol: and i agree with what you say

[MinatoNamikaze]

Actually, in theory, it's impossible for him to get anything more than a tie.
Assuming he can even kill all 6 of them, he would then have to find the 7th, in which the 6 he killed would be brought back to life by the 7th, then he would be again, fighting the 6 people he just killed, basically repeating the process as long as you want to make yourself believe he can until he dies just as Jiriaya did.
I apologize for my previous statement, Jiriaya couldn't of beat Pein, even with the secret.

Ok I see. SOrry I thought you said Jiriya could win but Minato couldnt. My bad. I apologize. You might be right. The reason I think you may be right is becasuse kakashi said Naruto is the only one who can surpass Minato so if Naruto is better than Minato, then he can probably match or beat pein.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

rush rush i made this thread a mounth maybe two ago and i made it first
and i think that if Minato had the same info as jiriya he would win becasue Minato is a alot stronger than Jiriya (case closed)

No, it's not case closed.
You fail to comprehend the fact that the 7th Pein is not there.
There Minato could not possibly win without killing himself as well.
Not to mention, if he does some how manage to kill all 6 Pein's, they will only be brought back to life by the 7th Pein, so even if in some way Minato manages to kill all 6 Pein's once, which btw won't happen, he sure as hell won't be able to do it a second time.

[MinatoNamikaze]

No, it's not case closed.
You fail to comprehend the fact that the 7th Pein is not there.
There Minato could not possibly win without killing himself as well.
Not to mention, if he does some how manage to kill all 6 Pein's, they will only be brought back to life by the 7th Pein, so even if in some way Minato manages to kill all 6 Pein's once, which btw won't happen, he sure as hell won't be able to do it a second time.

Although with the secret Jiriya knew, Minato would find the 7th pein and kill him instead of going through everyone else. Thats the only way he might win. That being said we really dont know just how strong Minato really is.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Although with the secret Jiriya knew, Minato would find the 7th pein and kill him instead of going through everyone else. Thats the only way he might win. That being said we really dont know just how strong Minato really is.

No, he wouldn't.
We don't know how strong Minato is but we know he isn't this strong.
With the secret is the only way he has a 1% chance of winning.
Without it he's screwed.
With it, he's still screwed by he at least thinks he has a chance.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

You fail to comprehend the fact that the 7th Pein is not there.
There Minato could not possibly win without killing himself as well.
But he could win by himself and as was argued in anouther thread like this we have no idea how "Pein" would react to the reaper seal (As we don't quite know how the body sharing works etc.)

Not to mention, if he does some how manage to kill all 6 Pein's, they will only be brought back to life by the 7th Pein, so even if in some way Minato manages to kill all 6 Pein's once, which btw won't happen, he sure as hell won't be able to do it a second time.
But he won't have to. the most critical piece of evidence has been overlooked. To revive a body Pein needs physical contact which means if Minato defeats the first six then the Seventh would need to show himself in order to revive the bodies and therefore make himself a target.

Minato is actually in with a good chance of winning this if he plays his speed and teleportation to the max in order to avoid Peins attacks while taking out the bodies one at a time.

[Toshiro Bankai]

Hard to decided.

[rush rush]

This thread was made but nice thread anyway

[darkninjaIII]

minato

[Hashirama]

Minato.

[Smiley]

Pain takes it..
It's too much for Minato to handle all six of them.

[narutofan09]

pein cause there is 6 of them and minato couldent handle them all.mabey one on one minato would win.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2194/mybannerglittere5353675tg5.gif[/URL]

[MinatoNamikaze]

Minato. More bodies means nothing. Remeber he took out a whole army single handedly:D

[Smiley]

And Pein killed the whole village by himself.

[MinatoNamikaze]

And Pein killed the whole village by himself.

Village vs ARMY

I have to say

ARMY > Village

Besides Minato could take a village too.

[rush rush]

^agreed

[Smiley]

Village vs ARMY

I have to say

ARMY > Village

Besides Minato could take a village too.

Minato didn't kill the whole army by himself.
He had men.
Those men threw kunai for him.
He only teleported around and killed the enemies.
It's pretty impressive, I admit, but he didn't do it alone.
He couldn't carry around that many kunai, and the enemies wouldn't just stand watching him throw them around.
If he were alone, he wouldn't have done it.

Also, there was around 50 enemies.
Amagakure had at least that many people.

Let's analyse this thing if you want.
I'm sure Pain takes this.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Minato didn't kill the whole army by himself.
He had men.
Those men threw kunai for him.
He only teleported around and killed the enemies.
It's pretty impressive, I admit, but he didn't do it alone.
He couldn't carry around that many kunai, and the enemies wouldn't just stand watching him throw them around.
If he were alone, he wouldn't have done it.

Also, there was around 50 enemies.
Amagakure had at least that many people.

Let's analyse this thing if you want.
I'm sure Pain takes this.

He did carry that many kunai becasue he had to give them to the men to throw. Only he had that kind. Yes but not everyone in a village in a shinobi. just like the leaf village. Not everyone there is a shinobi.

Ive got time less anyalize it if you want. (That sounds really arrogant on my part but I dont mean it to be. I actually want to analyze it)

[ghostrider]

i say pein

[Smiley]

He did carry that many kunai becasue he had to give them to the men to throw. Only he had that kind. Yes but not everyone in a village in a shinobi. just like the leaf village. Not everyone there is a shinobi.

Ive got time less anyalize it if you want. (That sounds really arrogant on my part but I dont mean it to be. I actually want to analyze it)

Ok.
Let's see.
First. I will assume that the Deidara-body is alive, because we don't know anything about the powers of new female Pein.(So, we will exclude her because we lack information).
This way it's easier, and we can use Jiraiya's battle to compare stuff. Is that okay?


Pain will start off the fight with one body.
Then after a few thrown punches he'll summon the other two.
(Just like in fight with Jiraiya)

Let's assume that Minato threw five kunai and can teleport now.
One Pain will be fighting Minato.
The other two will be watching from different spots so Minato can't do any surprise attacks from behind or from aside.

Body #1 can absorb any Minato's ninjutsu.
Body #2 has multiple summons, one of them has the "chameleon" ability and it is impossible to track it once it goes "invisible".
Body #3 can track down Minato wherever he goes(if he tries to hide for some reason) and is good at hand to hand combat.

(those are the three bodies he first used in fight with Jiraiya, unless Minato manages to kill them, he won't summon the other three)

So let's see.
From what we know Minato has one summon - Gamabunta.
Two summons > One summon.
Gamabunta can easily be put out of the game.
Let's assume that one of Pein's summons dies in process.
He is still left with the other(s). (I forgot how many he actually used, I'll have to check that)


So here's the situation.
One Pain will be fighting Minato in close combat.
Pain #2 will be watching if Minato uses any ninjutsu and will absorb it.
Third one will attack with his summon from behind.
Minato's only solution is to teleport to avoid this.
The process would repeat again, hence Minato has no way of avoiding the attacks from all sides.
Eventually he'll run out of chakra and won't be able to teleport anymore.
And Peins will win.

If he, however, does shiki fujin, he'll seal the three bodies and die.
The other hidden three will survive, and thus, Peins still wins.

Let's hear your counters. :)

[rush rush]

^Preety good but Gambuta whatever his name is can kill like 2or 3 peins by just jumping on them!

[MinatoNamikaze]

Ok.
Let's see.
First. I will assume that the Deidara-body is alive, because we don't know anything about the powers of new female Pein.(So, we will exclude her because we lack information).
This way it's easier, and we can use Jiraiya's battle to compare stuff. Is that okay?

Ok sounds good. Itll be hard casue we dont have to much on minato but Ill use the gaiden for my counters.


Pain will start off the fight with one body.
Then after a few thrown punches he'll summon the other two.
(Just like in fight with Jiraiya)

One body would be destroyed VERY fast becasue the one couldnt see an attack from behind which is what Mianto would do. So thats one less Pain to worry about.

Let's assume that Minato threw five kunai and can teleport now.
One Pain will be fighting Minato.
The other two will be watching from different spots so Minato can't do any surprise attacks from behind or from aside.

One would already be taken out so it would be 2 v 1. While minato is fighting one, he can put a seal on him and then go after the other. Once he gets a seal on one, he can take out both of them in the blink of an eye. Even if one of them saw it comming they couldnt do anything becasue they would be dead before they coudl blink and eye.

Body #1 can absorb any Minato's ninjutsu.
Body #2 has multiple summons, one of them has the "chameleon" ability and it is impossible to track it once it goes "invisible".
Body #3 can track down Minato wherever he goes(if he tries to hide for some reason) and is good at hand to hand combat.

Mianto doesnt need any ninjutsu (although rasengan would be useful). But with the first three finished, he can use ninjutsu again.

So let's see.
From what we know Minato has one summon - Gamabunta.
Two summons > One summon.
Gamabunta can easily be put out of the game.
Let's assume that one of Pein's summons dies in process.
He is still left with the other(s). (I forgot how many he actually used, I'll have to check that)

I thought pein only used one summon but if you said he sued to then ill go with that. Well Ill say that the summoner wasnt with the first three that died so I can still counter him. Gambunta could easily take on 2 of the summons pein used. I mean Gambunta went head to head with KYUBI so I think 2 little summons are nothing to worry about. So thats 4 down 2 to go.

So here's the situation.
One Pain will be fighting Minato in close combat.
Pain #2 will be watching if Minato uses any ninjutsu and will absorb it.
Third one will attack with his summon from behind.
Minato's only solution is to teleport to avoid this.
The process would repeat again, hence Minato has no way of avoiding the attacks from all sides.
Eventually he'll run out of chakra and won't be able to teleport anymore.
And Peins will win.

Now its just 2 v1 and minato would use the same tactic he used last time in the 2 v1 situation. So minato would win.

If he, however, does shiki fujin, he'll seal the three bodies and die.
The other hidden three will survive, and thus, Peins still wins.

But Minato isint dumb enough to do that :)

Let's hear your counters. :)

I just realized that this is a kinda stupid debate becasue we are using just 1 or 2 possible battle scenarios. So either one of our scenarios could work or fail. So theres really no point in getting into it too much. I think Minatos flying thunder god jutsu is too much for anyone in the world to handle, except for a few jutsus, but thats just my opinion. I completely respect you r opinion too :D

[Smiley]

One body would be destroyed VERY fast becasue the one couldnt see an attack from behind which is what Mianto would do. So thats one less Pain to worry about.

Useless, Pain can revive his bodies so it's three against one even if kills his first body.

One would already be taken out so it would be 2 v 1. While minato is fighting one, he can put a seal on him and then go after the other. Once he gets a seal on one, he can take out both of them in the blink of an eye. Even if one of them saw it comming they couldnt do anything becasue they would be dead before they coudl blink and eye.

Seal? What is seal?
Shiki fujin? :/
Jutsu-shiki formula?

I'll assume you meant jutsu-shiki.
If he killed the first Pain with teleporting behind him, others won't fall for the same trick.
They'll either throw their own kunai to counter Minato's or simply MOVE so Minato's kunai won't hit the ground behind them.


I thought pein only used one summon but if you said he sued to then ill go with that. Well Ill say that the summoner wasnt with the first three that died so I can still counter him. Gambunta could easily take on 2 of the summons pein used. I mean Gambunta went head to head with KYUBI so I think 2 little summons are nothing to worry about. So thats 4 down 2 to go.

Gamabunta didn't do anything in the fight with Kyuubi.
From what we know Minato did all the job.
And yes, he has at least 2 BIG summons. I'm not sure how many though.
They're about Gamabunta's size, so.. No Gama can't take on them both.
Besides one has the "Chameleon" ability and can strike from behind.

And yes, the one with summons was the first Pain that fought Jiraiya.

just realized that this is a kinda stupid debate becasue we are using just 1 or 2 possible battle scenarios. So either one of our scenarios could work or fail. So theres really no point in getting into it too much. I think Minatos flying thunder god jutsu is too much for anyone in the world to handle, except for a few jutsus, but thats just my opinion. I completely respect you r opinion too

Well, that's what battledome is all about.
But it's not stupid.. Circumstances are the same like in the fight with Jiraiya so we don't have to guess much how the battle would go.

[caleb08]

Minato. More bodies means nothing. Remeber he took out a whole army single handedly:D

one of pein's body's could take out the army that minato destroyed and look at it this way, pein killed jiriyia pretty easily and if minato ever fought jiriyia, minato would die! so point blank Pein wins and Pein has never lost a fight!

[D.I.Y Death]

Useless, Pain can revive his bodies so it's three against one even if kills his first body.



Seal? What is seal?
Shiki fujin? :/
Jutsu-shiki formula?

I'll assume you meant jutsu-shiki.
If he killed the first Pain with teleporting behind him, others won't fall for the same trick.
They'll either throw their own kunai to counter Minato's or simply MOVE so Minato's kunai won't hit the ground behind them.




Gamabunta didn't do anything in the fight with Kyuubi.
From what we know Minato did all the job.
And yes, he has at least 2 BIG summons. I'm not sure how many though.
They're about Gamabunta's size, so.. No Gama can't take on them both.
Besides one has the "Chameleon" ability and can strike from behind.

And yes, the one with summons was the first Pain that fought Jiraiya.



Well, that's what battledome is all about.
But it's not stupid.. Circumstances are the same like in the fight with Jiraiya so we don't have to guess much how the battle would go.

Show me where Pein has two summons that are of Gama caliber. (size and power) thats a huge factor in this battle.

[Smiley]

Gamabunta wasn't in that fight, so I'll have to use this frog as a comparative:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/04/
I don't think there's much of a difference between it and Gama, if there was, Jiraiya would've summoned Gamabunta to overpower Pain's summons.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/10/
The bird is clearly bigger than Jiraiya's summon.

For others I can't say cause they've never appeared on the same pic as Jiraiya's summon.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/08/ -> Those also seem incredibly huge.
And I've checked, it seems that Pain has 6 summons.

[caleb08]

just so you all know pein has 6 body's right.
one of those body's is known as the animal realm body.
This body was the one that took on jiriyia.
it's abilities allow it to summon any animal of it's choosing and that includes
bijuu.

[MinatoNamikaze]

one of pein's body's could take out the army that minato destroyed and look at it this way, pein killed jiriyia pretty easily and if minato ever fought jiriyia, minato would die! so point blank Pein wins and Pein has never lost a fight!

What are you talking about. One pein body couldnt and didnt do that. One body = one element = no stregnth. Peins stregnth comes from having 12 eyes and 6 elements.

Also Mianto to WAY stronger than Jiriya. Proof is all over manga. Im sure almost eveyone except Jiriya enthusiastes agree.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Gamabunta wasn't in that fight, so I'll have to use this frog as a comparative:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/04/
I don't think there's much of a difference between it and Gama, if there was, Jiraiya would've summoned Gamabunta to overpower Pain's summons.

THere is a HUGE difference in power level. Gambunta is very strong. Definetly stronger than those two summons.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/10/
The bird is clearly bigger than Jiraiya's summon.

Gambunta is quite a bit bigger than him actaully.

[caleb08]

What are you talking about. One pein body couldnt and didnt do that. One body = one element = no stregnth. Peins stregnth comes from having 12 eyes and 6 elements.

Also Mianto to WAY stronger than Jiriya. Proof is all over manga. Im sure almost eveyone except Jiriya enthusiastes agree.

ok well one pein's body's are not from the 6 elemants they are from the six path's of pain. whitch are:

1) Deva realm (heaven)
2) Asura realm
3) Human realm
4) Animal realm
5) Hungry Ghost realm
6) Naraka realm (Hell)

whitch means that is where pein's power comes from, so ya someone who gets there power from heaven, hell, and all those other realms can definantly take out an army easy, just think being able to summon all 9 bijuu, you could destroy the planet if you wanted to, pein has power not known to many people but i know alote about him. so before you know anything get your facts straight. just becasue u know alote about minato doesn't mean you can misjudge the power of other people. And minato is not better than jiriyia. see you think that just because minato saved the village he has insane power, well we don't really know anything about minato's power.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Useless, Pain can revive his bodies so it's three against one even if kills his first body.

Ya thats what i meant by different battle scenarios. Maybe Mianto was alrady gone, or maybe he was confirming his kill when they came to revive him. theres no point in debating this.

Seal? What is seal?
Shiki fujin? :/
Jutsu-shiki formula?

The seal he uses to telort.

I'll assume you meant jutsu-shiki.
If he killed the first Pain with teleporting behind him, others won't fall for the same trick.
They'll either throw their own kunai to counter Minato's or simply MOVE so Minato's kunai won't hit the ground behind them.

I think you think Minato can only teleport with Kunai. he can manual place seals with his hands on opponents bodies to.

Gamabunta didn't do anything in the fight with Kyuubi.
From what we know Minato did all the job.
And yes, he has at least 2 BIG summons. I'm not sure how many though.
They're about Gamabunta's size, so.. No Gama can't take on them both.
Besides one has the "Chameleon" ability and can strike from behind.

How do you know he didnt do anything. He would have been a HUGE condribting factor. 9 tails is too big for Miant to fight alone. I think he could take both. but thats just IMO.

And yes, the one with summons was the first Pain that fought Jiraiya.

No but I said for arguments sake so I could show you how he would be defeated.:D

Well, that's what battledome is all about.
But it's not stupid.. Circumstances are the same like in the fight with Jiraiya so we don't have to guess much how the battle would go.

No battles dont always go one set way. Maybe if jiriya had not started to walk away he would have seen the three other peins and stopped them from reviving the three dead ones or something. Just little changes in battles. There is no way we can assume pein would do EXACTLY what he did against jiriya. Actually its impossible because it never would. Thats what i emant by pointless to debate.:D

[MinatoNamikaze]

ok well one pein's body's are not from the 6 elemants they are from the six path's of pain. whitch are:

1) Deva realm (heaven)
2) Asura realm
3) Human realm
4) Animal realm
5) Hungry Ghost realm
6) Naraka realm (Hell)

whitch means that is where pein's power comes from, so ya someone who gets there power from heaven, hell, and all those other realms can definantly take out an army easy, just think being able to summon all 9 bijuu, you could destroy the planet if you wanted to, pein has power not known to many people but i know alote about him. so before you know anything get your facts straight. just becasue u know alote about minato doesn't mean you can misjudge the power of other people. And minato is not better than jiriyia. see you think that just because minato saved the village he has insane power, well we don't really know anything about minato's power.

I was saying that each body only uses one of the elements.

The bijuus have nothing to do with ANYTHING.

Minato is stronger than the third, as is stated by the third. (i can get the pages if I really have to) and the third is stronger than Jiriya. Ill put up a battle in the battle dome. Lets see what they say.

BTW I know that you know more about pein than i do:D

[caleb08]

I was saying that each body only uses one of the elements.

The bijuus have nothing to do with ANYTHING.

Minato is stronger than the third, as is stated by the third. (i can get the pages if I really have to) and the third is stronger than Jiriya. Ill put up a battle in the battle dome. Lets see what they say.

BTW I know that you know more about pein than i do:D

ok well you have 1 flaw pein does not use elemantal chakra he gains his power from each of the six realms. there are no elemental chakra body's they just have the power of the realm they are from, that is what i am saying. For instance the hell realm body, he has all the powers that aquire in Hell. whitch means he pretty much has power over Hell. Now as i have said before he has the power of the six realms. NO elamental chakra! none of his bodies use elamental chakra at all.

[Smiley]

THere is a HUGE difference in power level. Gambunta is very strong. Definetly stronger than those two summons.

Maybe, but Pain has six summons.
One of them, the Chameleon, can attack from behind.


Gambunta is quite a bit bigger than him actaully.

The bird and the dog-like ones are also bigger than the frog summon.

Ya thats what i meant by different battle scenarios. Maybe Mianto was alrady gone, or maybe he was confirming his kill when they came to revive him. theres no point in debating this.

If you put it that way, battledome is uselss, we can never know how the fight would go :p
But let's see, if Minato kills Pein's body what's he gonna do? Stare at the dead body? No.
He'll walk away.
If necessary one Pain's body will hold off Minato while the other heals the dead one.


I think you think Minato can only teleport with Kunai. he can manual place seals with his hands on opponents bodies to.

Hmm.. seals? I didn't know that.
I know that he can teleport wherever he places a jutsu-shiki formula but.. seal?
You mean like the seal Kakashi placed on Naruto to suppress Kyuubi?
If so, Pain won't let him do it.



How do you know he didnt do anything. He would have been a HUGE condribting factor. 9 tails is too big for Miant to fight alone. I think he could take both. but thats just IMO.

Well, Minato didn't really fight Kyuubi.
He came there and did a technique.

[caleb08]

Maybe, but Pain has six summons.
One of them, the Chameleon, can attack from behind. pein has more than 6 summons.



The bird and the dog-like ones are also bigger than the frog summon. those are only 2 of many.



If you put it that way, battledome is uselss, we can never know how the fight would go :p
But let's see, if Minato kills Pein's body what's he gonna do? Stare at the dead body? No.
He'll walk away.
If necessary one Pain's body will hold off Minato while the other heals the dead one.pein does not have a body that can heal others.




Hmm.. seals? I didn't know that.
I know that he can teleport wherever he places a jutsu-shiki formula but.. seal?
You mean like the seal Kakashi placed on Naruto to suppress Kyuubi?
If so, Pain won't let him do it. if you have read the chapter when it talks about kakashi's childhood then you would know this.





Well, Minato didn't really fight Kyuubi.
He came there and did a technique. exactly

[Smiley]

pein has more than 6 summons.

He showed six.

those are only 2 of many.

Yes.



pein does not have a body that can heal others.

Either that, or the bodies heal themselves, which I doubt.


if you have read the chapter when it talks about kakashi's childhood then you would know this.

I did, and there was either no seal, or I missed that.

[caleb08]

He showed six. he only showed six but there are many many more.



Yes.





Either that, or the bodies heal themselves, which I doubt. no they dont heal themselves, and they don't have to, if pein get's hurt in anyway the only thing he can do is wait to recover, or have someone heal him, i have heard tho that konan has learned medical nin so that is probably pein's source of healing.




I did, and there was either no seal, or I missed that.
oh well if you read it careful minato will tell you himself in the story.

[Smiley]

he only showed six but there are many many more.

That's an assumption.
Six is, however enough to beat Gama.



no they dont heal themselves, and they don't have to, if pein get's hurt in anyway the only thing he can do is wait to recover, or have someone heal him, i have heard tho that konan has learned medical nin so that is probably pein's source of healing.

Yes, he can heal and revive his bodies.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/16/
;)


oh well if you read it careful minato will tell you himself in the story.

Can you provide a link of that?

[caleb08]

That's an assumption.
Six is, however enough to beat Gama. no there are many more than 6. as i have said before that body is from the animal realm, whitch allows him to summon any animal of his choosing.





Yes, he can heal and revive his bodies.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/379/16/
;) they can't heal themselves that is just a jutsu that can bring the dead back to life.




Can you provide a link of that? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/244/16/ I think i have made my point here.

[Smiley]

they can't heal themselves that is just a jutsu that can bring the dead back to life.

Yes, they can.. Notice, their wounds have disappeared.
They would've died again if that jutsu didn't as well healed them.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/244/16/ I think i have made my point here.

No seal is mentioned there, just kunai that alerts when it flies.
I know that Minato can use kunai to teleport, but I don't think seals have ever been mentioned. /:

[caleb08]

i know there wounds have dissapeared that is apart of the jutsu.

and i thought you were talking about his teleportation technique.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Mianto uses a seal. Trust me Im a Mianto expert. Heres a link to prove it.
http://http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/
This link shows him putting the seal on the enemy.

http://http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/

Bottom of slide shows the seal on the guys foot. If you then look at the next page, you see that Mianto teleports behind the guy.

Also mark=seal.

[Smiley]

Mianto uses a seal. Trust me Im a Mianto expert. Heres a link to prove it.
http://http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/08/
This link shows him putting the seal on the enemy.

http://http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/09/

Bottom of slide shows the seal on the guys foot. If you then look at the next page, you see that Mianto teleports behind the guy.

Also mark=seal.

Oh.
I thought you meant that Minato has this kind of thing:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/09/

That and, even if he he does to Pain once, the other time it will fail.
Pain isn't an idiot.
Not only I don't believe he would manage to mark him the second time, Pain can most likely rub it off, once he realizes how the thing works.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Oh.
I thought you meant that Minato has this kind of thing:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/277/09/

That and, even if he he does to Pain once, the other time it will fail.
Pain isn't an idiot.
Not only I don't believe he would manage to mark him the second time, Pain can most likely rub it off, once he realizes how the thing works.

Well pein may know about it but it doesnt mean he can do anything about it. As I have said before, one of his other bodies may be able to see it coming but he cant avoid the attack intime. Remebr Miantos stregnth is speed.

[Smiley]

Well pein may know about it but it doesnt mean he can do anything about it. As I have said before, one of his other bodies may be able to see it coming but he cant avoid the attack intime. Remebr Miantos stregnth is speed.

To see what? He can prevent him from putting a seal on him, if he does put it however, Pain can rub it off.
Why do you think he uses kunai instead? Because it's not always so easy to put a mark by himself.
Minato has no way of beating six+ summons.
Especially the Chameleon one. Jiraiya located it with Hermit mode, Minato has no way of doing so.

[Anthony Sky]

OK i made this Thread last year when vary little was known of Pain but now we know his ability's so i think we can finally come up with how will win in this fight

[MinatoNamikaze]

ya but I guess in the battle dome we have to assume we dont take into consideration the secret just sheer fighting ability

[Suicide]

well he ain't called the yellow flash for nothing but pein is super strong so i am going to say yondaime because pein is really strong but the 4th hokage is just a little sronger then pein because he is the greatest hokage of all time and invented te rasengan so i say yondaime would win

[Doctor Octogonapus]

And how do you all suppose he goes about killing Nagato?
His speed means nothing when you have eyes everywhere.
His speed means nothing when he's beaten in every other department.
His speed means nothing, period.

[caleb08]

And how do you all suppose he goes about killing Nagato?
His speed means nothing when you have eyes everywhere.
His speed means nothing when he's beaten in every other department.
His speed means nothing, period.

eyes everywhere,
he only has six bodies and if minato manages to take one out his speed alone would prevent Pein from summoning the dead bodies back.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

he only has six bodies

Minato only has one.

and if minato manages to take one out his speed alone would prevent Pein from summoning the dead bodies back.

In theory.
However that's writing the fight yourself.

[MinatoNamikaze]

i dont think Minato would be stupid about it. He woudl probably wait to use his FTG tech until all the bodies had a seal on them, assuming he was using planted seals and not the Kunai. Minato can also put seals all over the battle field so that he can teleport whereever he wants to making it possible if all peins go near a seal he can just do a "super" blitz and take out all 6 bodies

[caleb08]

Minato only has one.
I was referring to Pain.



In theory.
However that's writing the fight yourself.

And just think about it how would Pain be able to catch someone so fast with his Techniques?

[Masterofdeath]

Yes, we have been over this several times. Pein is extremely powerful, but kishi himself has said minato is the greatest shinobi of all time meaning he can beat pein.

[caleb08]

^^ If your trying to debate with me then its stupid cause we're going for the same person.


In the manga it says that the newer generation of ninja meaning Naruto, and Shikamaru and all them will surpass the previous generation.

[Masterofdeath]

No, I am not debating with you I am moving for this thread to be closed. Anyway, yes it is true the new generation will surpass the old, but they clearly haven't yet.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I was referring to Pain.

I know, I was referring to Minato.


And just think about it how would Pain be able to catch someone so fast with his Techniques?

Just think about it, when has Kishimoto ever wrote an epic fight as cheaply as you think he will this one?

Yes, we have been over this several times. Pein is extremely powerful, but kishi himself has said minato is the greatest shinobi of all time meaning he can beat pein.

You missed some stuff Mod, that interview was fake.

Also you can't make posts in this section that are less than two sentences.

^^ If your trying to debate with me then its stupid cause we're going for the same person.

Don't try and piss him off, seriously.
That'll piss not only him off, but me too.


No, I am not debating with you I am moving for this thread to be closed. Anyway, yes it is true the new generation will surpass the old, but they clearly haven't yet.

Even if I do not agree, I will gladly close this thread. However I do not see any reason to, this can be debated.

[caleb08]

I know, I was referring to Minato.
sometimes you honestly make no sence what so ever.





Don't try and piss him off, seriously.
That'll piss not only him off, but me too.
WoW i've actually never seen YOU stand up for anyone!




Even if I do not agree, I will gladly close this thread. However I do not see any reason to, this can be debated.

i do not see any reason either to close this thread.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

sometimes you honestly make no sence what so ever.

Coming from the person who believes Minato has an advantage with only ONE body.



WoW i've actually never seen YOU stand up for anyone!



Because I don't like most of the people on the forum and the people I do like are well liked by everyone...or DIY...

[caleb08]

Coming from the person who believes Minato has an advantage with only ONE body.
okay if Naruto wins with only ONE body then why wouldn't Minato be able to.
but i cant say that yet cause he hasnt won, but when or if he does then you cant say nothin.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

okay if Naruto wins with only ONE body then why wouldn't Minato be able to.

First of all, if he wins with one body we call that viciously overpowered.
Secondly, You said Pain has only six bodies. I was simply stating Minato had one so you're only six argument is pointless.

but i cant say that yet cause he hasnt won, but when or if he does then you cant say nothin.

Yes I can.
In fact if he wins, my argument will actually strengthen.
Naruto has incredibly speed apparently, he will not win using that speed.
Thus proving for the fifth time at least, that vicious speed is not used in epic fights.

[caleb08]

Yes I can.
In fact if he wins, my argument will actually strengthen.
Naruto has incredibly speed apparently, he will not win using that speed.
Thus proving for the fifth time at least, that vicious speed is not used in epic fights.

Well and we have no clue of any techniques that the 4th has so we have really no clue of the 4th's STRENGTH.
But we do know that he has super speed whitch is how he killed most of his enemies.