Madara vs. Minato (OFFICIAL THREAD)

[Uchiha_Dynasty]

Location: Grassy field with clusters of trees.
Distance: 50 meters.
Abilities: As last seen in manga. Madara is in his prime, however and has EMS.
Restrictions: Madara cannot summon the Kyuubi.
Mind-set: In character. Fighting to kill.

[Summer.]

I think minato would win.
I think it was said he's the strongest from among all hokages. and 1. beat madara so...

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Minato didn't for 1, beat Madara.
For 2, He's the second strongest, the first is the strongest, who did beat Madara barely but they were equals...I say Madara.

[Summer.]

Minato didn't for 1, beat Madara.
For 2, He's the second strongest, the first is the strongest, who did beat Madara barely but they were equals...I say Madara.

if you're talking to me: My reply was meant to be like: and the 1. (HOKAGE) beat madara so...

but I think it was said minato was the strongest, not the 1. ...
now I'm not so sure bout it... ><

[hyugamaster]

i think minato would win because he is the strongest of the hokages so if the fist beat madara then minato shouldnt have a problem

[Knight_of_Night]

Even if we dont know much about those guys by listening (more reading :oh: ) to the stories I am sure there is plenty to disscus! The Death God jutsu and Shadow clone would be enough for Minato to defet any other ninja but we are talking about the God of Illusion, God of Sharingan too, the only Uchiha that developed Enternal Mange-Sharingan.

IF and only IF Madara summoned the Nine-Tailed Bijuu that night I sopose he would be able to summon any of the Tailed beasts in the fight with Minato.And dont forget it would be hard to use Death God Jutsu (DGJ short version) more than twice! But if that was natural desaster with no Madaras help than the fight would comed to a Sharingan vs. Rasengan and DGJ level where Namikaze would win!

What do you think?

[MinatoNamikaze]

Minato. He is said to be the strongest shinobi ever. And also He is not as strong as he used to be. Also Madara can only summon Kyubi, which Minato already countered with Gambunta.

[vane]

For one Madara can not even summon the Kyuubi since it is in Naruto. For 2 Madara cant summon or control any other tailed beast becauseit was never said or hinted in the manga that he can control any more Bijuu other than the Kyuubi. And for 3 Madara at this point in time doesnt have the EMS.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/18/
These 3 chapters Madara says he is collecting all the Bijuu to make things the way they should be. His Sharingans true powers. Meaining his Sharingan's true powers are not what they should be. So with all that said I think Minato would win (dont take this as a biased answer anyone). Because both have an incredible time/space jutsu. So its hardly an edge for Madara even though he doesnt need jutsu shiki to perform. And for Minato with his Shiki Fuujin he should definetly take this battle.

[Smiley]

Well, to seal him with shiki fujin he first has to catch him, to pull out his soul.
And Madara can just teleport away once he uses it.

I'm giving it to Madara.
Better time/space jutsu and the Sharingan to see through all Minato's ninjutsu/genjutsu/taijutsu would bring him victory.

[Hashirama]

Well, if Kyuubi is still Madara's pet and isn't sealed inside Naruto. I think Madara will win.

Madara had been defeated by Shodai even though he had Kyuubi with him, but that was because Shodai can controll bijuus like pets. So it will be pretty hard for Minato to deal with Madara and Kyuubi without a Kekkei Genkai like Shodai.

Also, we don't know much about Madara. But we know that his Time/Space no Jutsu is more advanced than Minato's as Kakashi said.

So, What I think is, if Madara has Kyuubi, he wins this. If he don't, Minato takes it.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Madara cant control Kyubi. The reason is remeber how Minato spilt its chakra in two and sealed the good half in naruto, well I htink Mdara will only be able to control the dark half so that he cant gain conrtol of Naruto, but thats just a theory.

[Smiley]

Madara cant control Kyubi. The reason is remeber how Minato spilt its chakra in two and sealed the good half in naruto, well I htink Mdara will only be able to control the dark half so that he cant gain conrtol of Naruto, but thats just a theory.

No. Yin was sealed with shiki fujin, Yang was sealed in Naruto.
Regardless, Madara takes it imo.

[MinatoNamikaze]

agreed. But which one is ying and yang again ?

[Smiley]

Agreed? Weren't you like.. for Minato? ^
Yin is dark, Yang light.. I think.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Agreed? Weren't you like.. for Minato? ^
Yin is dark, Yang light.. I think.

Oh sorry i misread it. I thought you said Mianto would take it sorry:D :lol: :lmao:

Ok thanks, I wasnt sure which was which.

And this ones hard to debate cause we dont know much about either. I would say Minato becasue he can summon gambunta and madara (as far as we know) doesnt have a summon himself. Gambunta and Minato > Madara

[Smiley]

Oh sorry i misread it. I thought you said Mianto would take it sorry:D :lol: :lmao:

Ok thanks, I wasnt sure which was which.

And this ones hard to debate cause we dont know much about either. I would say Minato becasue he can summon gambunta and madara (as far as we know) doesnt have a summon himself. Gambunta and Minato > Madara

Not.. really. :p
Madara can teleport up there so they'd be fighting on Gamabunta's head.
Summoning him against Madara would be a waste of chakra..

[Hashirama]

Madara cant control Kyubi. The reason is remeber how Minato spilt its chakra in two and sealed the good half in naruto, well I htink Mdara will only be able to control the dark half so that he cant gain conrtol of Naruto, but thats just a theory.

Yeah I know. As long as Kyuubi is sealed inside Naruto, Madara can't control it. But if Minato is alive doesn't that mean that Kyuubi isn't sealed inside Naruto yet? XD

I dunno. OP should make things more clear.

[vane]

Yeah that would clarify a bit. Because you do have a good point there.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Yeah I know. As long as Kyuubi is sealed inside Naruto, Madara can't control it. But if Minato is alive doesn't that mean that Kyuubi isn't sealed inside Naruto yet? XD

I dunno. OP should make things more clear.

Ok understandable. I didnt think Id have to list the specifics.

Kyubis in Naruto, and is unusable at this point. As for which madara we are talking about, you choose, but tell us which one.

BTW GAmbunta would be in the fight becasue Mianto wouldnt be standing on his head for a fight against another human. He only did that when fighting the Kyubi.

[rush rush]

First of all we don't know much about Madara!And i don't think it even matters i still say Minato!

[Peinsagod]

seriously minato because madara is fast but we haven't seen him do any real ninjutsu(besides time/space) genjutsu and only a little taijutsu plus his eyes are weaker than usual and minato is stronger than the first who beat madara even with the kyuubi and he had ems then that make minato own 8P

[rush rush]

^ yep hes right

[KyubiiRage]

kyubii is in naruto so mdara cant take it ouut.Mdara is as said in the manga a shell of his former self.so he isnt as pwerful as before.we know that minato was the strongest hokage and so if the first hokge already beat madara minato shouldnt have any problems

[Raikiri™]

I know very little is known about these two characters other than the fact that they were both insanely strong, if not the two strongest we have ever heard about- Yondaime with his instant teleportation and Madara with the first ever Mangekyu Sharingan.

Maybe you know more about them than me but I personally think Konoha's Yellow Flash would win this, but it would be close, what are your thoughts?

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj157/scott_237/PPPPPPPP.gif

[Muffin]

Well if we're talking the same Madara who got stomped by Hashirama i would say the 4th.

If it's Tobi - Madara i would say Madara based on his time/space being more advanced than the 4th's.

[vane]

^^ But supposedly the one that got stomped by Hashirama was stronger than Tobi. Madara at that time had EMS. At this point in time he is Tobi and there is some evidence pointing towards the fact that he doesnt have EMS anymore or it is damaged and cant be really used. Also to add we dont know of any other techniques Tobi can do besides that time/space jutsu. So I have to side more with Yondaime more on both accounts. I say Minato wins both.

[Smiley]

I believe Madara wins both.
Yondaime already died against Kyuubi alone, with EMS Madara on Kyuubi's side there's no way he can win.
The reason why Shodaime beat them both is that he could suppress Kyuubi with Mokuton, which Yondaime can't.

As for Tobi/Madara. Well, hence Yondaime can't hit him, if I based this on fighting styles I would have to say a tie, but too little is known about them to do so.

So I'm going with Madara simply because I see him as the most probable final villain, and final villains are usually > benchmarks.

[vane]

^^ But Madara with EMS doesnt have the Kyuubi. The Kyuubi at this point in time is sealed in Naruto and cant be summoned/retreived unless specified by OP. So no Kyuubi for Madara.

As far as he not being able to hit Tobi the same can be said about Minato in this case. Just because Tobi's is greater because he doesnt need seals doesnt mean that it can actually beat out another that does require them. If Minato has maybe 10 seals or even 7 that gives him plenty of destinations to go to. And from what I have seen Minato's is instant, Madara's seemed to have to suck him up which it could have been that was what he wanted to do or it takes that time for him to actually be able to teleport. But then from there Tobi as we know hasnt revealed any techniques besides his time/space technique which isnt going to be enough to kill Minato as he has his own.

And yes he is basically in the seat for final villian but it doesnt make him stronger by default. Thats assuming and not a good way to decide a battles outcome.

[Smiley]

Well, old Madara which had the EMS and was beaten by Shodaime is the same Madara that had the Kyuubi.
Without it, discussing anything is pointless, since we literally have no clue about his techniques.

As for Tobi/Madara I know he can't hit Yondaime either, which is why I said that it would be a tie if I based my post on their fighting styles, that is pointless hence not much is known about either of them.

[vane]

But it wasnt specified. So he cant use it and it. Little things like that have to be specified or the whole battle has to go without it.

Which is a some what valid point. But with what we do know, we know more about Minato and since we do he is the victor until we learn more about Tobi and what he can do.

[Smiley]

But it wasnt specified. So he cant use it and it. Little things like that have to be specified or the whole battle has to go without it.

Which is a some what valid point. But with what we do know, we know more about Minato and since we do he is the victor until we learn more about Tobi and what he can do.

How is he the victor if he can't hit his opponent? D:

[vane]

Because we know more about the character. Since we dont know anymore about the other the winner by default would be the opponent that actually attacks. If the other just retreats the whole time (which we know Tobi can do that :xd:) he for sure cant be declared the winner. After that I would say it would be a tie but the person who attacks seems to be the winner in my case.

[Smiley]

Because we know more about the character. Since we dont know anymore about the other the winner by default would be the opponent that actually attacks. If the other just retreats the whole time (which we know Tobi can do that :xd:) he for sure cant be declared the winner. After that I would say it would be a tie but the person who attacks seems to be the winner in my case.

Well.. If we're going by that Hinata is > Hanzou, hence we know more about her character and powers D:
I'm still for the "let's wait 'till we learn more about them".

I mean what offensive attacks does Yondaime have? Rasengan? We already saw that won't work on him..

[vane]

No I didnt mean about knowing more about a character so much as I meant about abilities. Like we know Tobi can retreat. But if he keeps retreating then its not his fight, it means he ahs to keep on the defensive and that wont win a fight. And I agree also but Im saying I still think from what I have gathered that Minato could take this IMO.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Smiley quit being difficult, you know what he means.
We know nothing about Madara.
We know Minato lost to Kyuubi, but we also know that he was stronger than Shodaime, a man who beat both Madara and the Kyuubi.
Madara cannot keep up with Minato, we know that.
However, we do not know much Madara(and Minato for that matter) therefore no decision can be made that can even be considered to be true.
Thus this thread should be closed.
Thoughts Ryan?

[X-Drake]

Wait who deleted my post.

[Smiley]

Smiley quit being difficult, you know what he means.
We know nothing about Madara.
We know Minato lost to Kyuubi, but we also know that he was stronger than Shodaime, a man who beat both Madara and the Kyuubi.
Madara cannot keep up with Minato, we know that.
However, we do not know much Madara(and Minato for that matter) therefore no decision can be made that can even be considered to be true.
Thus this thread should be closed.
Thoughts Ryan?

I agree that it should be closed until more is learned about characters.

But to your post.
Even if Minato was stronger than Shodaime, still Shodaime had Mokuton which gave him advantage over Kyuubi and Minato doesn't have it.

And how can Madara not keep up with Minato when he has the same technique like him just more advanced? =/

[vane]

That is my point exactly. Like I think it would be a tie as far as the actual fight goes but I just go more with the aggressor in this case and think that the person who retreats the whole battle because we dont know what he can do cant be considered the winner.

But agreed, it will continue just the way it is going now since there isnt much we officially know about either character. So if your saying you want to be the closer then I agree and say you should.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Wait who deleted my post.

I didn't delete it although I merged about 4 threads, it was probably pushed back.

And how can Madara not keep up with Minato when he has the same technique like him just more advanced? =/

Come on, you know my answer to that.

[X-Drake]

I didn't delete it although I merged about 4 threads, it was probably pushed back.
No! It was deleted. How do I know? Becuase its not under my posts any more, when it was my latest post. A valid post.

Whats the reason for deletion?

[Smiley]

Come on, you know my answer to that.

Not?
He has to throw kunai to teleport, and the smoke appears wherever he decides to go next.

Madara does the same, except no smoke and no tags.

[vane]

@Smiley: But he also teleports slower. He has to be sucked up then teleport from what we seen from when he was on that tree and started getting sucked up. Where as Minato was an instant while another ninja was looking at him then he was just gone and appeared right behind him with a kunai to his neck. So both techinically arent instant.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

No! It was deleted. How do I know? Becuase its not under my posts any more, when it was my latest post. A valid post.

Whats the reason for deletion?

I deleted no posts.
So there is no reason for deletion.
It was not deleted by me, I'll double check to make sure Muffin deleted it or if somehow it was deleted when the threads merged(in which I'll restore it)

Not?

No...he can't.

He has to throw kunai to teleport, and the smoke appears wherever he decides to go next.

Madara does the same, except no smoke and no tags.

That's proof that the village of Konoha mastered and improved his jutsu. We've seen countless ninja use a technique of that description(minus the kunai).

No, Tobi does the same.

[Smiley]

That's proof that the village of Konoha mastered and improved his jutsu. We've seen countless ninja use a technique of that description(minus the kunai).


Lol what?
Are you talking about Shunshin?

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Drake, your post wasn't deleted.
No post has even been deleted today.

Lol what?
Are you talking about Shunshin?

I'm talking about the jutsu you described.
Teleportation, and smoke coming out where you appear.

[Smiley]

I'm talking about the jutsu you described.
Teleportation, and smoke coming out where you appear.

Which is how Hirashin works.
:/
What do you mean by "countless shinobi have done the same"?
Shunshin? Kuchiyose?

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Which is how Hirashin works.
:/
What do you mean by "countless shinobi have done the same"?
Shunshin? Kuchiyose?

There is no Iruka summon or Kotetsu summon or Extra #263 summon.

[Suicide]

Who do you think would win against Minato and Uchiha Madara....

Madara is rumored to have summoned the 9 tails, and Minato

did defeat it (kind of).

(Obviously if Minato and Madara were alive)

madara is alive he is tobi and yondaime will win because he is too fast,can teleport,and can teleport while using therasengan

[MinatoNamikaze]

Well you know that "technique" everyone uses that makes it appear as though they teleport, if you look closly at some of the episodes in anime and sometimes in manga youll notice that they just jump off camera. if I can find clips and pages of this Ill post them. Minato's jutsu actually moves him through time and space.

[Smiley]

There is no Iruka summon or Kotetsu summon or Extra #263 summon

Not sure what your point is, though.

"Most" shinobi don't have the T/S jutsu so I assumed you meant Kuchiyose, because it's also considered as one, hence summons travel through space and time and create smoke when they appear.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

madara is alive he is tobi

Physical Proof of this?

Well you know that "technique" everyone uses that makes it appear as though they teleport, if you look closly at some of the episodes in anime and sometimes in manga youll notice that they just jump off camera. if I can find clips and pages of this Ill post them. Minato's jutsu actually moves him through time and space.

You can't jump off camera when your inside with all doors and windows closed.



"Most" shinobi don't have the T/S jutsu so I assumed you meant Kuchiyose, because it's also considered as one, hence summons travel through space and time and create smoke when they appear.

Are you suggesting there are summoning seals that everyone can use in every village and other locations throughout the Naruto world?
Because that sounds even more preposterous than what I'm saying.

[MinatoNamikaze]

You can't jump off camera when your inside with all doors and windows closed.

True, but they certainly arent teleporting. I beleive this jumping and disappearing act is simply to make a way for characters to enter and exit in "cool" way. How boring would it be to have people always walk out of the hokages office right? but I see your point and it is 100% valid.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

True, but they certainly arent teleporting. I beleive this jumping and disappearing act is simply to make a way for characters to enter and exit in "cool" way. How boring would it be to have people always walk out of the hokages office right? but I see your point and it is 100% valid.

Jumping and disappearing.
HM....
I believe that's called teleporting.
You'll need a much more valid explanation than that to explain how they do that.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Jumping and disappearing.
HM....
I believe that's called teleporting.
You'll need a much more valid explanation than that to explain how they do that.

Well you know what I mean. I have only one explantaion as to how they jump while in rooms (and Im not even sure its entirly valid so bare with me). The one place this happens the most is in the Hokages office, however, if you've noticed, there areno windows in the manga, so its possible they jump through these windows. I know, lame explanation but Im kinda fighting and uphill battle cause I think its just something the writers didnt think about too much.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

The one place this happens the most is in the Hokages office, however, if you've noticed, there areno windows in the manga, so its possible they jump through these windows. I know, lame explanation but Im kinda fighting and uphill battle cause I think its just something the writers didnt think about too much.

There's no way of knowing weather or not the windows we open.
And also, Kakashi has done it in a field.

[MinatoNamikaze]

There's no way of knowing weather or not the windows we open.

I know but we have to assume.

And also, Kakashi has done it in a field.

Dont know what your trying to say here. If he does it in a field, then that means he could just be jumping and moving quickly.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I know but we have to assume.

No, we don't.



Dont know what your trying to say here. If he does it in a field, then that means he could just be jumping and moving quickly.

He's APPEARED and there was smoke.

[vane]

So I guess what we're saying here is that Minato's Hiraishin is nothing more than a body flicker again are we? If not thats the way it sounds to me. But it isnt or it would be called so. It is a totally different technique all together. Hiraishin is time/space and body flicker is just quick movement thats all.

[Smiley]

Are you suggesting there are summoning seals that everyone can use in every village and other locations throughout the Naruto world?
Because that sounds even more preposterous than what I'm saying.

Argh, no.
It's considered a time/space jutsu because summons teleport through space, to the spot where they're summoned.

Never mind, from your discussion with MinatoNamikaze, I'm assuming you were talking about Shunshin.
Like vane said, it's just moving fast. You channel chakra in your feet and run.
Not more than that.

Hirashin and Madara's technique are used to teleport through space.

[MinatoNamikaze]

yes it a very confusing matter that the writers either havent thought of or havent shared with us yet. Majin is right in his thinking. Remeber how sasuke, oro, and kabuto, disappeared when naruto and sasuke first met after the time skip? well they kinda evaporated with fire so to speak. We cant consider this to be teleportation like madara's or Minato's but they are still disappearing and reappearing in another location. But like smiley and vane (and myself) have pointed out, what we have seen countless times, isint teleporting.

[Muffin]

It's already been stated there's no such thing as "teleporting" in the Narutoverse it's just moving really fast.

[vane]

^^ Link please:^^:

[Muffin]

Linky Clinky. (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/09/)

[vane]

Well then Kishi has a pretty weird definition of teleport. Because in my eyes teleporting is isnt fast moving. To me teleporting is like beam mu up scotty. So 2 different views on teleportation. But yes Hiraishin is not the same as body flicker and needs to be dropped as they are 2 different techniques v.v

[0ba]

It's already been stated there's no such thing as "teleporting" in the Narutoverse it's just moving really fast.What does Shino know?
Kakashi said in the same page that he must have used time/space jutsu. And since he didn't move very fast, but still got away wthout Shino's bugs detecting him going in any direction, that means that he teleported, then. How then do weapons pass through him? How did he escape Sasuke's Amaterasu? Why then could Minato only move that fast with only his sealed kunai? In the Kakashi Gaiden, they split up, and when Kakashi threw the kunai, he appeared there. Shunshin is the one that's fast movement, I don't think Hiraishin is.

*edit*
And on the next page, Sakura reasons that he could make his body parts vanish as well, and Kakashi says his time/space ninjutsu might be better than Minato's, it wouldn't be called time/space if it was simply speed. And it wouldn't require seals or summoning tattoos as Kakashi said. I could be wrong though.

[vane]

^^ No your right. Time/space isnt just fast movement. You cant move when your surrounded with no way out. Call it what you want (which we prefer teleport) but it is the same thing. To be able to be somewhere where theres no way to just get out and just disappear from Byakugan then that is teleporting (other wise called time/space). But Im saying you can call it what you want but to just disapear from existnce then just reappear where ever is a damn teleport to me.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Well then Kishi has a pretty weird definition of teleport. Because in my eyes teleporting is isnt fast moving. To me teleporting is like beam mu up scotty. So 2 different views on teleportation. But yes Hiraishin is not the same as body flicker and needs to be dropped as they are 2 different techniques v.v

I agree. Time/space ninjutsu and teleporting are the same thing. Teleporting literally is the movement through time and space, not quick movements

[Muffin]

I never exactly said all time/space is just fast movement :confused:

All i said is that according to the manga there is no such thing as teleporting. It just seems like they're teleporting because they're moving so fast. Tobi's ability to make himself vanish from existence isn't teleporting although it is a time/space jutsu. Hiraishin isn't teleporting either i don't know what the hell Minato does with the seals to kill armies in a split second.

Like when Tobi "vanished" and called Zetsu slow, Zetsu apologized that he couldn't move at the speed of light. Teleporting just doesn't exist in the narutoverse unless proven otherwise.

[vane]

^^ Yeah when Zetsu said that if you look below the panel you see it said it was a hyperbole to. That Madara doesnt just move at the speed of light. He disapears from our time of existance and reappears where ever a split second later. But the downside I seen to it is that Madara's isnt an instant. He has to be sucked up then warp or whatever you want to call it. I call it whatever as long as people get the intentions of my meaning (only because its easier to say).

[MinatoNamikaze]

well if theres not teleporting how do summons apear, they certainly arent moving at the speed of light