Pein vs. Madara (OFFICIAL THREAD)

[Muffin]

same can be said of Madara. AMATERASU fired at point blank could not touch him. Rasengan sneaked up on him could not touch him. Even after being completely surrounded by thousands of bugs he escaped without a scratch and no exhaustion.

Except the difference between Pein and Madara is that Madara has had his ass handed to him by Hashirama. Pein on the other hand, has been untouchable by everyone.

[akatsuki_gal44]

madara wins =3 but pein will always be MY man.... he mine get ur own hottie =3

[vane]

but it won't matter because he can teleport his body in and out making him unhitable.
Which I will say again. It takes chakra. If he is constantly teleporting he will run out of chakra.
Also, one direct hit by a great fireball jutsu can defeat the majority of shinobi's (only when catching them off guard i.e. before Pein can respond.) Pein is not going to be sneaked up on. He has 6 points of view.
You can try to say that one of Peins level can't be killed by a kunai, but that simply isn't true. A battle of this caliber wont end by a slice of a kunai and I dont care how much you think it will. Kishi will not end a fight between the 2 main bad guys by a kunai. Not that he cant possibly die by kunai but it will not happen and you know as well as I know that, that is not the way it will end.
The great fireball jutsu would just be absorbed by fat Pein. And so far Pein has shown to be untouched by some of the most powerful techniques used thus far.Exactly
True, but I mean that just because Pein is strong doesn't mean he can't be killed by a blade.
But as I have said it will not happen in this big of a fight.
same can be said of Madara. AMATERASU fired at point blank could not touch him. Rasengan sneaked up on him could not touch him. Even after being completely surrounded by thousands of bugs he escaped without a scratch and no exhaustion.Which as I have said at least 3 times he will run out of chakra if he uses the teleportation to much. Which is the only thing he has and it will drain him.
Except the difference between Pein and Madara is that Madara has had his ass handed to him by Hashirama. Pein on the other hand, has been untouchable by everyone.Another really good fact
madara wins =3 but pein will always be MY man.... he mine get ur own hottie =3
Sorry to sound like an ass. But you have to eleborate. Explain why you think the person would win. Or else it is just spam.

[WhiteFang]

Which I will say again. It takes chakra. If he is constantly teleporting he will run out of chakra.
Which as I have said at least 3 times he will run out of chakra if he uses the teleportation to much. Which is the only thing he has and it will drain him.


Actually, currently we cannot comment on the chakra capacities of both nins. I mean that Madara has hardly shown any trace of exhaustion uptil now and Pein, well he atleast has 6 bodies worth of chakra... so while Madara teleports, even Pein will have to consume his chakra to dodge. We can't say who will last longer since, we do not know Madara's exact condition.

Another thing I'd like to add is that in this debate, currently we have robbed Madara of all his powers of EMS and sharingan in general. (which he most probably has but just has not shown yet) Me and majin came to a stalemate on this and hence decided to wait a while till the manga clarifies this ambigous fact.

[Masterofdeath]

I have a hunch that Madara's sharingan/ EMS when revealed will show exactly why he is better than Pein. Until then I am afraid we must go on what we know. Also, Madara is very aware of Pein's powers so he could easily know how to counter him (just as Madara knew everyone else in Akatsuki's powers.) The same cannot be said for Pein as Tobi for the most part has kept his powers under wraps.

[vane]

Actually, currently we cannot comment on the chakra capacities of both nins. I mean that Madara has hardly shown any trace of exhaustion uptil now and Pein, well he atleast has 6 bodies worth of chakra... so while Madara teleports, even Pein will have to consume his chakra to dodge. We can't say who will last longer since, we do not know Madara's exact condition.

Actually since Pein is not teleporting it is not taking chakra. Dodging and teleporting are 2 different things. Which I am not saying Madara can not dodge aswell but it is hard to dodge all out big jutsu. Usually it takes other jutsu to cancel out others. Which we cant give Madara jutsu we dont know he has.
Another thing I'd like to add is that in this debate, currently we have robbed Madara of all his powers of EMS and sharingan in general. (which he most probably has but just has not shown yet) Me and majin came to a stalemate on this and hence decided to wait a while till the manga clarifies this ambigous fact.Not saying you 2 didnt come to a stalemate. But it was I that intentionally took away the EMS as we dont know what it can do. You 2 may have come to an agreement. But like I said I took it away early on in this debate. Majin also said himself that we can not even assume that he has EMS anymore at 1 point. I am not sure if he concluded to that but he has said it.

But as I have said Madara can not win a battle until he sows us at least some hint of an attack that he can use. Because here is the debate so far.
"Well Im sure Madara hs an attack that automatically wins this fight". But thats just the thing we have not seen it. We have no clue as to what he can do at all. I was the one who actually came up with the thought that he can use Katon since he is an Uchiha. But like Fireball jutsu wont be able to win this fight. His teleporting is more of a defensive measure. And if he keeps using it he will run out as it takes chakra. And you said yourself. Pein has 6 bodies worth of chakra.

[Masterofdeath]

We will find out his attacks when Sasuke attacks konoha as Tobi is with them.

[vane]

We will find out his attacks when Sasuke attacks konoha as Tobi is with them.

Agreed(maybe, only if he actually helps)

[Masterofdeath]

I am pretty sure he will help, or Sasuke will get angry and turn on him. Also, Sasuke has absolutely no chance of bringing down konoha without help from Tobi which still may not be enough (the entire Akatsuki and team eagle can't defeat Konoha)

[vane]

I am pretty sure he will help, or Sasuke will get angry and turn on him. Also, Sasuke has absolutely no chance of bringing down konoha without help from Tobi which still may not be enough (the entire Akatsuki and team eagle can't defeat Konoha)

I dont think Tobi will lead into the fight itself. I think he will sneek in and pick a fight with a certain someone. Not just randomly fight people.

And I agree that it will take more than what Akatsuki has to take down Konoha. Oh but I forgot they are going to use the CS2 monsters from the lab. I forgot about that. It may turn out to be a pretty good war.

[Masterofdeath]

True. I believe that Tobi will pick a fight with Kakashi or possible Naruto, but I feel that is Sasuke's fight. I don't think he will fight Tsunade because something tells me she will die at the hands of Pein, but have a huge role in his eventual defeat by Naruto.

[vane]

True. I believe that Tobi will pick a fight with Kakashi or possible Naruto, but I feel that is Sasuke's fight. I don't think he will fight Tsunade because something tells me she will die at the hands of Pein, but have a huge role in his eventual defeat by Naruto.

I have been saying that for the longest that Tsunade will die. And more than likely before this battle happens. So it leaves Konoha vulnerable to attack and makes for a better conclusion. But I dont think Madara will really fight at all. I think he is going to try and make a move inside Konoha. Like maybe something he needs that is there and he could never get before until this big diversion happens but will run into someone (maybe Kakashi) and have to have a fight.

[Masterofdeath]

I don't know. To this point Madara's real ambitions are unknown to me.

[WhiteFang]

Madara might want to team up with Danzou. I have a strong feeling that Madara now has nothing to do with Akatsuki... he founded Akatsuki for his own ulterior motives which he seems to have fulfilled. So this battle maybe 3-way. Konoha Vs initially Sasuke-Madara (I don't know what are Madara's intentions, so I believe he is just using Sasuke as a distraction) Vs Pein-Rain village.

[Masterofdeath]

I could see what you are saying happening, but I don't believe the rain villiage will be a part of this as they are completely weak and stand no chance what so ever.

[vane]

I never mentioned the rain village. I said all the curse marked people. The ones when Sasuke went to get Juugo from that place. If I remember correctly Sasuke is going to use them as a frontal attack. Like pawns in a game of chess. And try and move in to attack the head people. I dont believe the rain village will take any part what so ever here. Besides maybe Pein who is from the rain village. But yes I believe the curse ma people will be used to eoual(my KYU button doesnt work) out the playing field.

[Muffin]

I honestly don't see Danzou actually turning on Konoha his entire time he's been shown to actually want to prevent war and fighting not create it.

I never mentioned the rain village. I said all the curse marked people. The ones when Sasuke went to get Juugo from that place. If I remember correctly Sasuke is going to use them as a frontal attack. Like pawns in a game of chess. And try and move in to attack the head people. I dont believe the rain village will take any part what so ever here. Besides maybe Pein who is from the rain village. But yes I believe the curse ma people will be used to eoual(my KYU button doesnt work) out the playing field.

The thing about that is that they actually revolted and turned on the guards where they were from and Sasuke, suigetsu and Karin just whooped the entire group of them i don't know how they could be much more than a distraction? Unless you're referring to the captives from when Sasuke and Suigetsu went to collect Karin.

[Masterofdeath]

I never mentioned the rain village. I said all the curse marked people. The ones when Sasuke went to get Juugo from that place. If I remember correctly Sasuke is going to use them as a frontal attack. Like pawns in a game of chess. And try and move in to attack the head people. I dont believe the rain village will take any part what so ever here. Besides maybe Pein who is from the rain village. But yes I believe the curse ma people will be used to eoual(my KYU button doesnt work) out the playing field.

I was responding to whitefang.

[vane]

I honestly don't see Danzou actually turning on Konoha his entire time he's been shown to actually want to prevent war and fighting not create it.



The thing about that is that they actually revolted and turned on the guards where they were from and Sasuke, suigetsu and Karin just whooped the entire group of them i don't know how they could be much more than a distraction? Unless you're referring to the captives from when Sasuke and Suigetsu went to collect Karin.

Yes those also. Basically all a big distraction so that Sasuke and friends can get into Konoha and hit where it hurts. All the higher ups. Basically like this. All the curse mark people who we know cant beat Sasuke and friends who will do what they say because if not they die. Lead a giant onslaught against Konoha. To make it look like war. While Sasuke and friends go into Konoha covertly and start taking out all the threats to themselves. Then when people relise(Spelling error) that Sasuke and company are in Konoha Naruto and everyone runs back just being played by the diversion from the front. Just to have a big final showdown between all the strongest.

I was responding to whitefang.
My fault. But that post was relevent to this one aswell.

[Masterofdeath]

That could happen, but all the threats you mentioned probaly wouldn't be high named characters because they will be a part of the final battle.

[WhiteFang]

I meant just a couple of shinobi's from Rain (I agree they are pathetic weaklings, but add to the no.s nonetheless) may come along with Pein and Konan. Then Pein may realise that Madara has actually betrayed Akatsuki... so then the Rain peoples turn on Sasuke and Madara's CS pawns.

[vane]

That could happen, but all the threats you mentioned probaly wouldn't be high named characters because they will be a part of the final battle.

Exactly which will already be in Konoha when the war starts. So that it is fought inside of Konoha. Itwould make for a good final battle between all remaining strong opponents.

All the high threat people will already be in Konoha when this happens. While Naruto and gang run to help fight the curse mark people Sasuke and gang will already be in Konoha killing off the elders and so on. Until someone finally realises that all the main enemies are back in konoha. So then they will go back to have the final battle inside of Konoha itself.

[Masterofdeath]

This would be a good way to end the show, but would require at least another 115 chapters.

[WhiteFang]

Yeah. 100+ chaps would be required. I was wondering though... the story of Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura is very similar to the 3 sannins. They have also been trained by them and have their traits too. I believe that the story may also go in a direction where... well, like Jiraiya failed to bring Oro back, but Naruto will succeed in bringing Sasuke back by the end of it all.

[Muffin]

Yeah. 100+ chaps would be required. I was wondering though... the story of Sasuke, Naruto and Sakura is very similar to the 3 sannins. They have also been trained by them and have their traits too. I believe that the story may also go in a direction where... well, like Jiraiya failed to bring Oro back, but Naruto will succeed in bringing Sasuke back by the end of it all.

Or kill him, which i'm really hoping happens.

[Masterofdeath]

Lol! how mean

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Yeah MOD was right, any theories on how the show is gonna go have to be fairly short because the series has at most 100 chapters left.
That's why I think the only way for someone to kill Pein is with a jutsu that takes both people's lives, therefore it doesn't spend too much time with that. I think Tsunade will kill Konan in a fight, then kill Pein quickly. Then the war will start, and seeing how Hiashi and Shikaku aren't ever going to have a main role. It'll most likely be something like Naruto vs. Sasuke, Sakura vs. Karin, Sai vs. Suigetsu, Yamato vs. Juugo, Lee vs. Kisame, and Kakashi vs. Tobi.
But who knows. I'm guessing it'll be somewhat like that.

[Masterofdeath]

I actually like your theory. It is very possible.

[WhiteFang]

Yeah MOD was right, any theories on how the show is gonna go have to be fairly short because the series has at most 100 chapters left.
That's why I think the only way for someone to kill Pein is with a jutsu that takes both people's lives, therefore it doesn't spend too much time with that. I think Tsunade will kill Konan in a fight, then kill Pein quickly. Then the war will start, and seeing how Hiashi and Shikaku aren't ever going to have a main role. It'll most likely be something like Naruto vs. Sasuke, Sakura vs. Karin, Sai vs. Suigetsu, Yamato vs. Juugo, Lee vs. Kisame, and Kakashi vs. Tobi.
But who knows. I'm guessing it'll be somewhat like that.

I also appreciate your theory Majin... but why oh why do you keep forgetting Gai??? Lee can fight Juugo and Gai fights the fish.

[Masterofdeath]

Yes, I don't think Yamato will fight juugo, but instead take a big role in Naruto controlling the kyuubi to defeat Sasuke.

[WhiteFang]

^^ yeah that might be the case. Or he can assist Hiashi, Shikaku etc. in battling the minions.

[Masterofdeath]

Yea, but I think he will help Naruto because Naruto will need to control the kyuubi or else the villiage will be in danger.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I also appreciate your theory Majin... but why oh why do you keep forgetting Gai??? Lee can fight Juugo and Gai fights the fish.

Kishimoto killed Jiriaya and Tsunade(not yet shown but will be soon) to make Naruto and Sakura, grow up. And Kishimoto did the same exact thing with Shikamaru, before his big fight with Hidan. Then Kishimoto followed with, "Lee doesn't need to grow up"(or something like that), which leads me to believe that Lee is probably going to die, either that or we'll never know what the 8th Gate is like, but Lee is most likely going to fight in the war, not Gai.

[WhiteFang]

But but Gai won't sit around while there is a war going on in Konoha. We know he is at par with Kakashi so I think he will fight against someone important. The fight between him and Kisame has continued right from Part 1 to Part 2 and both the times Gai got the better of Kisame. And considering Kisame's nature, I bet he'll wish to pay him back and pick a fight with him again.

And with Kishi's habit of killing mentors.. it seems to be more likely that Gai may die. Sadly. :( I don't want that happening though.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

But but Gai won't sit around while there is a war going on in Konoha. We know he is at par with Kakashi so I think he will fight against someone important. The fight between him and Kisame has continued right from Part 1 to Part 2 and both the times Gai got the better of Kisame. And considering Kisame's nature, I bet he'll wish to pay him back and pick a fight with him again.

[QUOTE]And with Kishi's habit of killing mentors.. it seems to be more likely that Gai may die. Sadly. :( I don't want that happening though.

Actually Gai won't die.
Like I've said many times, Kishimoto gave too much away in the interview. He said Lee didn't need to grow up, meaning Gai will not die, meaning Lee will probably die, because we've never seen the 8th gate and I doubt he'll leave that out in the open.

[WhiteFang]

Hmm... that's a valid point I must say. My money is still on a Gai Vs Kisame showdown though along with the other battles.

[Masterofdeath]

Yes, I have to go with Gai vs. Kisame because as Kisame stated in their last fight they have business to settle and have obviously fought before. I think that Lee will show his 8th gate, but it will be in defeating Juugo.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^I think Lee will show his 8th Gate too but I really don't think Juugo could push him to the 8th gate, unless since Juugo is the first person to have the curse seal, it could be possible he has a third level.

[Masterofdeath]

Yes, I do think Juugo has a third level or he wouldn't be as revered and dangerous as he is.

[OroYaku201]

As powerful as the Rinnengan is, Madara is almost unstoppable. Taking on Shodaime and Nidaime, and rumors of taking on Yondaime.
With the rumors and facts, we have on Madara, I have to say Tobi takes the cake.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

As powerful as the Rinnengan is, Madara is almost unstoppable. Taking on Shodaime and Nidaime, and rumors of taking on Yondaime.
With the rumors and facts, we have on Madara, I have to say Tobi takes the cake.

I say you're facts are wrong.
Madara got his ass torn apart by Shodamine, he never fought Minato, nor did he fight Nidamine. And from things shown in the manga(and the way the manga is gonna go[you can't deny that MOD, Madara can't be stronger than Pein because he's going to be killed by one of the Jounin in Konoha most likely Kakashi, therefore could not be stronger than him]) Madara is not stronger than Pein.

[xxTobixx]

Had a time to think about it...

Madara

[WhiteFang]

I say you're facts are wrong.
Madara got his ass torn apart by Shodamine, he never fought Minato, nor did he fight Nidamine. And from things shown in the manga(and the way the manga is gonna go[you can't deny that MOD, Madara can't be stronger than Pein because he's going to be killed by one of the Jounin in Konoha most likely Kakashi, therefore could not be stronger than him]) Madara is not stronger than Pein.

Kakashi almost equals a hokage in terms of power (as said by J-man and Tsunade) he's no usual Jonin of Konoha... he's pretty damn stronger than the
other Jonins. I do have a bad bad feeling though that Kakashi will have to sacrifice himself to kill Madara... just like Tsunade will against Pein. :( :(

[Masterofdeath]

I think Pein will get killed by either Tsunade (the weakest of the sannin; personal opinion) or Naruto (a mere genin.)

[WhiteFang]

^^ I agree with the Tsunade being the weakest sannin part.

But Naruto is still better off I guess (not a pathetic genin)... Kakashi thinks he and Naruto are equals. Although I do believe Kashi said that because Naruto's natural element i.e wind is superior to his own natural and strongest element: Lightning, and basically the FR is one kick-ass technique. Kakashi is still the better nin though... or so I think.

Either Tsunade or Naruto will kill Pein but only because of that secret.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

i used to think that naruto wuld kill pein and tsunade would die by pein.
but now that team hawk and all plan to attack konoha, i've switched it around to tsunade killing pein since naruto will be stuck with sasuke for the time but still tsunade could die and konoha could fall into choas idk lol

[Masterofdeath]

True, but I think if Tsunade defeats Pein she will die.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^Agreed.
The secret to me seems to involve the Death Seal Jutsu.
Seeing as Tsunade is going to die and Pein has nothing else left for his character I think it makes sense.
What I'm looking forward too though is how Konan goes, I'm kind of hoping Tsunade gets so angry she punches straight through Konan but I'm also kinda hoping for somewhat of a fight.

[Masterofdeath]

I think Konan will die at Sakura's hands even though she doesn't seem like much of a fighter. (talking about konan)

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I think Konan will die at Sakura's hands even though she doesn't seem like much of a fighter. (talking about konan)

I don't think so cause Pein and Konan are off on their own(which really makes you wonder what they are doing since they do pretty much nothing for the organization).
And it makes sense, cause Tsunade is going after Pein, and Konan is with Pein, and as we saw with Jiriaya, Konan appeared first.

[Masterofdeath]

Yes, but Konan wouldn't have fought Jiraiya as she would have been decimated. She is clearly not at the level of a sannin.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^I know, that's why Tsunade is going to fight her.
Sakura is miles and miles away, and Tsunade is going to the same place.
And I doubt Sakura is gonna leave Konoha with Sasuke approaching. which by the way, now has a Bitchin Desk.

[Masterofdeath]

In the new chapter the Akatsuki and team eagle have teamed up.

[WhiteFang]

Akatsuki was sooo damn depleted, this had to happen. So Pein is already coming to get Naruto.. Madara also plans to do the same. Sasuke is going after the remaining beast which I have sneaking suspicion is related to Konoha. Wow.

And for Konan... I wanted a Sai Vs Konan to happen. Pen Vs Paper. One heck of an artistic battle it would be... but sadly that is very unlikely to happen. Konan is basically pathetic.. all you need to do is use a water jutsu and her paper gets wet and folded and she's done for. One Tsunade punch can also destroy her. Fairly easy. I wonder why she is even there??? Probably to tell the emotional story of what exactly happened to Yahiko and friends after J-man left them.

[Masterofdeath]

Yea, I feel that Konan is quite weak, and could be beaten by Sakura.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^I think she could too but seeing as they are making their move like now and since Tsunade is going in that direction anyway, why not kill Konan too?

[Masterofdeath]

I don't think Tsunade will have the chance. Because it is clear that Sasuke wants to take out the leaders of konoha first so Akatsuki won't put one of there members in the fire to get decimated by Tsunade.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

No no, they are located in different positions.
Kisame, Zetsu and Tobi are with Hawk, Pein and Konan are the only ones in the Rain Village.

[Masterofdeath]

I don't know. However, Madara's power was shown even more as he stopped Suigetsu's attack with his mere arm.

[WhiteFang]

I think Pein and Konan have already departed to get Naruto.

Although there is no time... Naruto could have a small training stint with the frog that is J-man's sensei, to learn some powerful tech. maybe... the key Jiraiya was talking about... Possibly Naruto still needs to learn something.

[Masterofdeath]

He does need to learn stuff. Like how to control the kyuubi even at 4-tails, how to use the FR without damaging himself, the secret to defeat Pein, and how to use Itachi's power that was given to him.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I think Pein and Konan have already departed to get Naruto.

Although there is no time... Naruto could have a small training stint with the frog that is J-man's sensei, to learn some powerful tech. maybe... the key Jiraiya was talking about... Possibly Naruto still needs to learn something.

Nah, Naruto can't train, no time, he does need to learn something but he's not gonna, Hawk is on the move, they seem to be in the mist village, they'll arrive shortly....

He does need to learn stuff. Like how to control the kyuubi even at 4-tails, how to use the FR without damaging himself, the secret to defeat Pein, and how to use Itachi's power that was given to him.

He's not gonna defeat Pein, he's no where near strong enough, and Tsunade is going to defeat Pein, that's how she dies. You really think Sasuke or anyone from Hawk(seeing as Tobi and Kisame act under Akatsuki) could beat Tsunade?

[Masterofdeath]

No. I don't think anyone from hawk will defeat Tsunade. As I have said before Tsunade will either die defeating Pein or setting up his defeat for Naruto. Tsunade won't waste her time with Konan, and seeing as Sakura is a main character she will more than likely kill someone from the akatsuki as it will bring her into the role of one of the new three sannin (which I think will be a combination of one of the 5- Lee, Sasuke, Neji, Sakura, and Naruto), and then the show will end with Kakashi being the new hokage.

[WhiteFang]

No. Tsunade can pwn the hawk peoples. Kisame could beat her though. I just remembered one thing though that J-man has sent 2 things... one is the secret and other is some sort of... key.
And do you think the frog just broke the news of J-man's demise to everyone or Tsunade and Kakashi were already told by him??? Because they seemed to be very very calm.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

No. I don't think anyone from hawk will defeat Tsunade. As I have said before Tsunade will either die defeating Pein or setting up his defeat for Naruto.

Again, Naruto is staying in Konoha to fight Sasuke, he wouldn't leave when Sasuke is coming to attack Konoha.

Tsunade won't waste her time with Konan, and seeing as Sakura is a main character she will more than likely kill someone from the akatsuki as it will bring her into the role of one of the new three sannin (which I think will be a combination of one of the 5- Lee, Sasuke, Neji, Sakura, and Naruto), and then the show will end with Kakashi being the new hokage.

That's not going to happen.
First of all, The show isn't going to end this year, therefore the big event is NOT Kakashi becoming Hokage because War is coming and as you saw years ago, they did not appoint Jiriaya/Tsunade as Hokage until AFTER the war.
There is no combo.
Tsunade will fight Pein alone, and Tsunade will fight Konan as well.
Sasuke is coming to attack Konoha, why the hell would Naruto and Sakura leave? They would not.
Neji will not fight in the war, Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi, Lee, Sai and Yamato will.

[Masterofdeath]

Everyone knew about his death except for Naruto. And majin Tsunade will not fight Konan. Because even if I think she is weak she will still provide a challenge in battle or else she wouldn't be in akatsuki. And, Tsunade isn't strong enough to fight one strong opponent and then fight Pein.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

And majin Tsunade will not fight Konan. Because even if I think she is weak she will still provide a challenge in battle or else she wouldn't be in akatsuki. And, Tsunade isn't strong enough to fight one strong opponent and then fight Pein.

That all depends on what the secret is, and if the secret is what I think she'll have no problem fighting Konan then Pein.

[WhiteFang]

I don't think that Naruto and Sakura or anyone for that matter know yet that Sasuke has sided with Akatsuki and is about to attack Konoha. Itachi did forewarn Naruto... but apparently Naruto has'nt voiced his encounter with Itachi yet and he himself does not exactly trust Itachi.

[wang tang]

ok...i got a dum factnow,we know that madara can easily block zabuzas sword with just an arm,

[Masterofdeath]

Yea, i said that earlier. Madara is stronger than Pein, and it will soon be shown why.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I don't think that Naruto and Sakura or anyone for that matter know yet that Sasuke has sided with Akatsuki and is about to attack Konoha. Itachi did forewarn Naruto... but apparently Naruto has'nt voiced his encounter with Itachi yet and he himself does not exactly trust Itachi.

Itachi told him.
Naruto knows.

Yea, i said that earlier. Madara is stronger than Pein, and it will soon be shown why.

Madara isn't stronger than Pein.
That's obvious.
Read the manga.

[WhiteFang]

Itachi did'nt tell him in plain and simple terms. He was also speculating this himself... Itachi himself was uncertain and moreover Naruto does not trust Itachi... so in a way Naruto also does and does not know. He just suspects. And everyone else does not know at all.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Itachi did'nt tell him in plain and simple terms. He was also speculating this himself... Itachi himself was uncertain and moreover Naruto does not trust Itachi... so in a way Naruto also does and does not know. He just suspects. And everyone else does not know at all.

Okay, so he expects it, and we don't know if he hasn't told anyone, but he will hopefully tell someone soon.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

i wuld think naruto wuld tell saukra and nobody else about this not even kakashi! It is naruto and sakura who feel the need to save sasuke about all else and that 's why its only going to be them who save him and only them who knows about sasuke coming (naruto has a deed for being a hero and doing things himself)

[caleb08]

who would win madara or pein?

[darkninjaIII]

madara

[caleb08]

u think so i dont know pein killed jiriyia...now if u can kill the sanin u got some power.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

This thread has already been done
http://www.talknaruto.com/showthread.php?t=9567

and as we really don't fully know what Madara can do we can't really say for sure who would win

[D.I.Y Death]

Itachi has MS Mandara has EMS
EMS>MS
We don't know the full abilities of Mandara yet but its a safe bet that the more advanced form of ms is stronger therefore Mandara wins this.

[caleb08]

ems wats tht?

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Itachi has MS Mandara has EMS
EMS>MS
We don't know the full abilities of Mandara yet but its a safe bet that the more advanced form of ms is stronger therefore Mandara wins this.

Madara can't beat Pein.
Pein is stronger than Shodamine and Madara was beaten by Shodamine.

Minato and Sarutobi are called the Strongest Dead Shinobi, with just a few being stronger than them. Pein obviously being one, and since Madara isn't a living shinobi, that essentially proves that Madara cannot beat Pein.


ems wats tht?

Well it's essentially PMS.

[D.I.Y Death]

woops sorry mistook this thread for a diff one.

EMS=Eternal MS (lol @ pms which it technically right)
It gives Mandara "imortality" well not really but its the closest word to describe the fact that he can't be hit by anything.
On the Subject of Pein vs Mandara Pein has 6 bodies and that neat eye thing that I can't remember the name of. IF I remember correctly and thats a big if, the sharingan and all other eye techniques spawned from his eye technique which he and the founder of the first ninja village share.
I think Pein is more powerful, but Mandara is probably smarter hence why he has lived for so damn long while opposing so many high powered ninja.
If this battle were to happen I'd call it a draw, Mandara would outsmart Pein and make him pay heavily for every scratch he received, but Pein imo is definitely more than strong enough to kill Mandara.
please note that this totally depends on the circumstances of the battle, if Pein doesn't make any dumb moves that leave him vulnerable Mandara is royally f*cked.

[caleb08]

this would probably be the fight of naruto if it ever happened but who knows it might just happen but ya madara is smart so he might find some way in but pein is very strong!

[vane]

This thread already exist and needs to be locked or something. Because the whole debate is on the other thread.

Oh and it is in Peins favor. As Madara doesnt have any techs. Except teleporting and some phasing. And that wont beat Pein.

[D.I.Y Death]

This thread already exist and needs to be locked or something. Because the whole debate is on the other thread.

Oh and it is in Peins favor. As Madara doesnt have any techs. Except teleporting and some phasing. And that wont beat Pein.

Does it really matter if theres a new thread on this?
Its a battle dome so most of the battles have been done.
So just contribute or get out of the thread after your first statement?(not trying to be rude but my suggestion makes sense)

[vane]

Does it really matter if theres a new thread on this?
Its a battle dome so most of the battles have been done.
So just contribute or get out of the thread after your first statement?(not trying to be rude but my suggestion makes sense)

But not when this whole debate has almost been resolved in another thread. And yes it makes sense but it is pointless sense when it is against the rules. It is called spam. It is just an extra uneeded thread. Although it isnt up to me. I can still let others know the rules. And to tell people they should read them. Where you wouldnt be saying all of this if you had read them.

[D.I.Y Death]

But not when this whole debate has almost been resolved in another thread. And yes it makes sense but it is pointless sense when it is against the rules. It is called spam. It is just an extra uneeded thread. Although it isnt up to me. I can still let others know the rules. And to tell people they should read them. Where you wouldnt be saying all of this if you had read them.

Yep, it for the most part had been discussed in another thread, but this is a battle arena. Battle arenas thrive off the pointless bickering of who would kick whos ass over and over again especially when the series only has so many characters.
Seems a little more than pointless to me and while you certainly do have the right to tell people its against the rules you should keep in mind that once a thread has been buried and forgotten in a section where there are extremely limited topics of discussion/debate its most likely once again fair game especially since from what Ive seen mods have not closed threads that obviously have been done before.
I have read the rules and made logical deductions from what is enforced and what is not, my words are chosen based upon those logical deductions, where yours are based upon the rules of a forum, rather than the harmony created by the differentiating rules written and the rules upheld (which ultimately keep the battle dome open for posters, rather than have old threads no one wants to touch being maliciously forced from the grave to active service, which definitely would kill the battle dome section permanently trust me on this one I used to be a mod for a bigger site than this and we learned from experience)
Lets just leave it at that, I don't want to get into a pissing match.

[darkninjaIII]

even though pein killed a sennin, even though madara lost he did do some major damage to first and second hokage.

[vane]

Yep, it for the most part had been discussed in another thread, but this is a battle arena. Battle arenas thrive off the pointless bickering of who would kick whos ass over and over again especially when the series only has so many characters.
Seems a little more than pointless to me and while you certainly do have the right to tell people its against the rules you should keep in mind that once a thread has been buried and forgotten in a section where there are extremely limited topics of discussion/debate its most likely once again fair game especially since from what Ive seen mods have not closed threads that obviously have been done before.
I have read the rules and made logical deductions from what is enforced and what is not, my words are chosen based upon those logical deductions, where yours are based upon the rules of a forum, rather than the harmony created by the differentiating rules written and the rules upheld (which ultimately keep the battle dome open for posters, rather than have old threads no one wants to touch being maliciously forced from the grave to active service, which definitely would kill the battle dome section permanently trust me on this one I used to be a mod for a bigger site than this and we learned from experience)
Lets just leave it at that, I don't want to get into a pissing match.

Ok I wont say no more as I can see you get a little upset while typing on a topic that is based off rules.

even though pein killed a sennin, even though madara lost he did do some major damage to first and second hokageNo Madara didnt. Madara never had a bout with the 2nd only the 1st.

[darkninjaIII]

ah ok your right, but my point remains valid. pein could not compete with the first like madara did.

[vane]

ah ok your right, but my point remains valid. pein could not compete with the first like madara did.

Pein could easily defeat the first. I have so many reasons why but I wont go into detail as I feel if I should I should use it in a thread Hashirama vs Pein thread and not here. But yes Pein could easily defeat Hashirama.

[darkninjaIII]

will you make the thread then? because i am soooo positve pein could not beat him.

[vane]

Look Hashirama wasnt even the strongest Hokage (as said by the writer himself). Madara couldnt beat him at his fullest(when Madara was 100%). Madara now is weaker than Itachi (Madara said it himself). Itachi who in turn is weaker than than Jiraiya (Itachi said it himself). And Jiraiya who is weaker than Pein (as we have seen in all out combat). Which in turn makes Pein stronger than Hashirama and Madara.(I dont mean together)

[darkninjaIII]

itachi never said "I'm weaker the jiraiya". he said he would die because he was not willing to fight him. you seem to forget that while jiraiya is strong(no arguement there) he is an old man. naruto is his succesor if it werent for the events that took place he would be long retired spy on some naked woman

[vane]

Look Itachi indirectly said it. He said to Kisame that if they were to both attack Jiraiya they would all 3 lose. Which also says "If I fought Jiraiya alone I would definetly lose". Because with him and Kisame and they would both lose is a safe bet that Itachi alone couldnt do it.

[D.I.Y Death]

Ok I wont say no more as I can see you get a little upset while typing on a topic that is based off rules.

No Madara didnt. Madara never had a bout with the 2nd only the 1st.

I'm not upset I just had way too much sugar for my own good:D

[darkninjaIII]

Look Itachi indirectly said it. He said to Kisame that if they were to both attack Jiraiya they would all 3 lose. Which also says "If I fought Jiraiya alone I would definetly lose". Because with him and Kisame and they would both lose is a safe bet that Itachi alone couldnt do it.

kisame would just get in the way, itachi was not willing to fight him, and look at the location. it was not suited for itachi. and if he can burn a hole through a fire breathong toads belly with amaterasu he can certainly do the same to jiraiya

[vane]

Look I have did the run down on this battle far to many times. I will give you a breif list of reasons.

Jiraiya has the frog belly to which he starts off with and puts Itachi in. The Itachi has to use Amaterasu to get out as nothing else shown is capable of getting out of the frogs belly. While this is happening Jiraiya is inside trying to capture Itachi with the tentacles. When Itachi makes it out Jiraiya starts with his frog song. Itachi dares not to go back inside thus giving Jiraiya time to get the song going. Then Itachi is caught in a strong Genjutsu and Jiraiya wins. That is just a small run through.

Jiraiya has Frogs belly to avoid Amaterasu.
Jiraiya has summoning to avoid Susanoo
Jiriaya has many ways of avoiding Tsukiyomi.

But once Itachi uses one of these 3 techs it severly weakens him. Thus giving Jiraiya the edge.

[darkninjaIII]

first their battle would not be that brief and aren't itachi's only tecchniques. and like i said, the location. if jiraiya could turn a building into a frog's belly do you think he'd be dumb enough to fight him in a village. itachi might of said he and kisame would die because while he was familiar with jiraiya he did not know what he was capable of, while jiraiya knew what itachi was capable of.

[vane]

Look I know it was brief I said it was goint to be brief. But the fact still stands that Jiraiya has a tech to counter everything Itachi has. And when Itachi uses those techs (cause that will be the only chance he has is if he wants to win) he will be severly weakened. And Jiraiya will win. This will be the last time tonight I will post facts why Jiraiya is strong. I will add more tomorow.

[darkninjaIII]

Look I know it was brief I said it was goint to be brief. But the fact still stands that Jiraiya has a tech to counter everything Itachi has. And when Itachi uses those techs (cause that will be the only chance he has is if he wants to win) he will be severly weakened. And Jiraiya will win. This will be the last time tonight I will post facts why Jiraiya is strong. I will add more tomorow.

look itachi has a clear upper hand. sharigan, MS period. jiraiya is strong yes but it comes down to location(which i been stressing for the past hour). itachi was smart enough to not fight jiraiya in the village if the were not in the village jiraiya would nowhere to summon the toad belly.

[D.I.Y Death]

look itachi has a clear upper hand. sharigan, MS period. jiraiya is strong yes but it comes down to location(which i been stressing for the past hour). itachi was smart enough to not fight jiraiya in the village if the were not in the village jiraiya would nowhere to summon the toad belly.

Vane has the upper hand, what he is saying makes sense and is supported by the magna, what you are saying is not and sounds strangely similar to fanboyism. So either buck up and show some proof or give up.

[vane]

Read the chapter where Jiraiya has the 2 people hostage in the toad belly. It is out in the middle of nowhere. Jiraiya can summon the toad belly anywhere. Thats why your stressing that fact is pointless. The chapter before he fought Pein. He was in the town and he took the 2 people and took them somewhere else and the pics showed them in the middle of nowhere. So that means he can use it anywhere.

Vane has the upper hand, what he is saying makes sense and is supported by the magna, what you are saying is not and sounds strangely similar to fanboyism. So either buck up and show some proof or give up.
Thank you. It is a little difficult to try and convince a fanboy or fangirl.

[darkninjaIII]

im new to these kinds of site and stuff and dont what fanboyism but dont you think that since itachi was in the building it would be easier to capture him than in the middle or nowhere? but whatever Vane, you and i are arguing on enough threads right now as is.

[WhiteFang]

Here.. I'll also put in some assistance. I'm not even going by what Itachi or Kisame said or did not say... I'm simply stating facts.

Jiraiya has far too many diverse techs and hermit mode and summons for someone (including Itachi) to battle him one on one and beat him. With Itachi fighting him on his own.. Jiraiya would have plenty of time to start of the toad song and when that happens it's game over for Itachi. Itachi can basically match up evenly to Jiraiya with Susanoo.. however as we have seen Itachi can't hold it for too long. Jiraiya can last that out... and when he does... its over for Itachi.

[D.I.Y Death]

Fanboyism=Liking a character to the point of saying they will win in proven feats of power they have demonstrated they cannot beat.

[vane]

im new to these kinds of site and stuff and dont what fanboyism but dont you think that since itachi was in the building it would be easier to capture him than in the middle or nowhere? but whatever Vane, you and i are arguing on enough threads right now as is.
^^Agreed.....Finally

Fanboyism=Liking a character to the point of saying they will win in proven feats of power they have demonstrated they cannot beat.I like the definition. Its funny :lol:

@Whitefang: So true.

[darkninjaIII]

well then its not fanboyism on my part. i like naruto and neji. and if jiraiya can beat itachi so can orochimaru and

yes Vane, agreed.

[vane]

But Orochimaru already said he would lose to Itach. Also we know that Tsunade is a more physical fighter and would not do to well in this fight.

[D.I.Y Death]

How did Oro get dragged into this?

[vane]

I think he means that the Sannin are kinda eoual in power. But we know that they are not.

[WhiteFang]

well then its not fanboyism on my part. i like naruto and neji. and if jiraiya can beat itachi so can orochimaru and tsunade

there is no rationale in this statment at all... how can you put Oro and Tsunade in the same league as Jiraiya. We know for a fact that Tsunade is definitely weaker than Jiraiya. Oro would be defeated by Jiraiya's hermit mode. The sannins are not equals...each have their own unique skills.

[vane]

But I have already pointed out that Orochimaru said he would lose to Itachi. And that Itachi admitted to not being able to beat Jiraiya.

[D.I.Y Death]

This thread makes my head hurt. Can someone revoke Dark's typing privileges for an hour that way he can keep some of his dignity and reputation?

[nubboo]

listen ive read this whole thread and everything dark as been saying is correct. so why dont we revoke you writing privileges. the sannin are in fact equals if you look at what they are base on snake,slug, toad. this came from the 1640s version of rock, papper,scissors. in the variation the toad is afraid of the snake,the snake of the slug, and the slug of the toad. the creator put this in the series to signify that the sennin is in a deadlock and the is no greater among them. if you dont believe me go to this link.

http://narutofever.com/information/slug-snake-toad.php

dont worry dark, you are absoluetly right.

[caleb08]

wow people really go off topic in threads how did oro get involved in this

[ultima]

because they say jiraiya is stronger than itachi which make oro and tsunade stronger please go to link above its 100% correct. dark and nubboo are right

[darkninjaIII]

thank you nubboo and ultima finally some one sees it my way.

[caleb08]

i dont know what we are talkin about jiriyia, tsunade, and oro for in a thread that involves pein and madara

[darkninjaIII]

read the whole tread and entire discussion and you'll see.

[caleb08]

i read it im just sayin because there not talkin about the real topic

[darkninjaIII]

then you should see the relevance in everything being said.

[vane]

But it doesnt matter of real legend. We are talking about the show so no everyone who agrees with the Sannins are all 3 eoual you are wrong. If any of you actually read the manga you would also have read all the parts where Orochimaru said he cant beat Itachi. Then you would have read the parts where Itachi said that himself and Kisame would not be capable of surviving a battle with Jiraiya. So that in turn says that Jiraiya can beat Orochimaru. So please read the manga before going to some archaic legend about them. Because if you read the legend you would also realise that in the book Orochimaru killed both Jiraiya and Tsunade. Which didnt happen in the manga. So that there automatically proves you wrong. So like I said before reading some legend read the manga.

But now to get back on topic. Pein beats Madara.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

even though pein killed a sennin, even though madara lost he did do some major damage to first and second hokage.

Madara never fought the 2nd.
And Madara was utterly destroyed by the 1st.

ah ok your right, but my point remains valid. pein could not compete with the first like madara did.

No, your point does not remain valid.
Madara was completely destroyed by Shodamine.
And Pein is stronger than Minato and Sarutobi, who are stronger than the 1st, who is stronger than Madara.
Therefore Pein would easily win.

[vane]

because they say jiraiya is stronger than itachi which make oro and tsunade stronger please go to link above its 100% correct. dark and nubboo are right

No because that doesnt revolve around the manga. It is old legend about the characters. It completely has nothing to do with anything other than where Kishimoto got his characters from (and some of their abilities).

[Doctor Octogonapus]

because they say jiraiya is stronger than itachi which make oro and tsunade stronger please go to link above its 100% correct. dark and nubboo are right


If your link does not say One-manga, Saiyanisland, or lead to any part of the manga, it is not a source.
Tsunade and Orochimaru are weaker than Itachi.
Itachi demolished Orochimaru.
And Tsunade is weaker than the both of them.
Do not post links to forums, do not post links to legends, do not post links to stories other than this one.
The manga is the only thing that can be used as evidence in a debate. If Kishimoto says something in an interview, that is correct also, but other than those two things, nothing else is correct.

[D.I.Y Death]

listen ive read this whole thread and everything dark as been saying is correct. so why dont we revoke you writing privileges. the sannin are in fact equals if you look at what they are base on snake,slug, toad. this came from the 1640s version of rock, papper,scissors. in the variation the toad is afraid of the snake,the snake of the slug, and the slug of the toad. the creator put this in the series to signify that the sennin is in a deadlock and the is no greater among them. if you dont believe me go to this link.

http://narutofever.com/information/slug-snake-toad.php

dont worry dark, you are absoluetly right.

...You've got to be kidding me.
Read the magna before you post especially since thats the legend rather than the actual magna and has very little to do with anything but the summons each respective Sannin has.

Maybe you need typing privileges revoked for a while too since you think that site is law. (magna or interview or it doesn't count as fact. I'll even give it to you if it was in the anime as long as its subbed)

[caleb08]

well personaly i still say pein

[D.I.Y Death]

well personaly i still say pein

I agree with that too for the record.

[animegenius]

Pein wins because pein is not even humaN he says it himself he is GOD!!! Plus he has the rinnegan with he ressuracted.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^He's not God....

[WhiteFang]

No, your point does not remain valid.
Madara was completely destroyed by Shodamine.
And Pein is stronger than Minato and Sarutobi, who are stronger than the 1st, who is stronger than Madara.
Therefore Pein would easily win.

I agree with everything except the fact that Pein is stronger than Minato and Sarutobi. There is no proof. Well anyways... it is quite irrelevent to the thread.

[caleb08]

Pein wins because pein is not even humaN he says it himself he is GOD!!! Plus he has the rinnegan with he ressuracted.

pein is not a GOD! people keep on saying that but he's not the Rinnegan is not everything. the only thing that i have heard from the power of the Rinnegan is that he can duplicate himself like completly not a shadow clone a real clone whitch means it wouldn't fight and then go POOF if it got beat up it would fight untill it died and then it's body would decay as a regular human and the the clone has every power and trait as the regular pein whitch means not even his comrad's could tell him from the clone apart. that's all i have heard about the Rinnegan. no GOD like power.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I agree with everything except the fact that Pein is stronger than Minato and Sarutobi. There is no proof. Well anyways... it is quite irrelevent to the thread.

Actually there kind of is.
Kishimoto said that Minato and Sarutobi are the strongest DEAD shinobi, and only a few living Shinobi are stronger than them.
Pein is the strongest living Shinobi, so he must be one of them.

[WhiteFang]

I remember Kishi saying just 'strongest shinobi'. He did not specifically say dead. As of now I certainly don't think there are any living shinobi stronger than the 3rd/4th, though Pein may have a shot.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

I remember Kishi saying just 'strongest shinobi'. He did not specifically say dead. As of now I certainly don't think there are any living shinobi stronger than the 3rd/4th, though Pein may have a shot.

I just posted the article in the Shodamine thread.
He said there are a couple living shinobi stronger than Minato and Sarutobi, but they are the strongest dead ones.
I'm thinking, depending on the date of the interview, he was referring to Pein, Jiriaya and Itachi.

[WhiteFang]

^^ Yeah I got it. Thanks.

Jiraiya and Itachi I doubt. Pein could be stronger than Minato though. And in any case, it makes sense because Naruto eventually has to surpass the 4th and beat someone up.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

^^I doubt Jiriaya and Itachi as well but they were the two strongest Shinobi below Pein.

[caleb08]

I just posted the article in the Shodamine thread.
He said there are a couple living shinobi stronger than Minato and Sarutobi, but they are the strongest dead ones.
I'm thinking, depending on the date of the interview, he was referring to Pein, Jiriaya and Itachi.

no im not sure itachi would be able to kill the 4th or sarutobi but pein and jiriya probably have a shot.

[Masterofdeath]

No, Naruto would definitely tell Kakashi first because Kakashi is his mentor and like a father figure to him. Sakura, would just run her mouth and not believe it.

[hyuga_fan]

How In The World Did Majinsharingan(bless His Name) Ever Get Banned
He Was The Best Member On Talknaruto

[Masterofdeath]

How did I get banned from talknaruto. The debates I had with Majinsharingan were legendary.

[vane]

How In The World Did Majinsharingan(bless His Name) Ever Get Banned
He Was The Best Member On TalknarutoHim and another member got a little wordy wih each other and took it to far.

How did I get banned from talknaruto. The debates I had with Majinsharingan were legendary.
Speaking kinda highly of yourself. Are you not? :lol:

[Masterofdeath]

Sorry. I think of many people in a high aspect including you.

[vane]

I was just refering to the legendary part. I just thought it sounded funny.

[Masterofdeath]

lol! Hey me and majin always used to get under each others skin, but it was because we were so opposite

[hyuga_fan]

but majinsharingan was around WAY before u
hell I was around longer than you
we had a few debates
only 1 was worthy enough to be called legendary
Neji vs Shikamaru
he won but barely
i went to sleep lol

[vane]

Sorry but it isnt about who wins or loses. Its just passing facts back and forth. Proving people wrong is just a bonus.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

a pretty neat bonus i wouLd say !

[Raikage]

yep

[Doctor Octogonapus]

but majinsharingan was around WAY before u
hell I was around longer than you
we had a few debates
only 1 was worthy enough to be called legendary
Neji vs Shikamaru
he won but barely
i went to sleep lol

Who are you.
Lol I don't remember ever debating with you.

[hyuga_fan]

look at my name
HYUGAMASTER ALMOST 1000 POSTS WE USE TO DEBATE ALL THE TIME BUT I ONLY WON LIKE ONCE U WHERE JUST TO GOOD(U STUDY TO MUCH)

the only reason i have this profile is because i forgot the password to my old one and my email got canceled

[vane]

I was wonderin how you said youve been around longer than Masterofdeath.

[hyuga_fan]

so u remember me
i remember arguing with u too
they were mostly at night and i was too tired to continue(no stamina)

[Doctor Octogonapus]

look at my name
HYUGAMASTER ALMOST 1000 POSTS WE USE TO DEBATE ALL THE TIME BUT I ONLY WON LIKE ONCE U WHERE JUST TO GOOD(U STUDY TO MUCH)

the only reason i have this profile is because i forgot the password to my old one and my email got canceled

Oh right xD
Ask Ham, he'll give it to you.

[Masterofdeath]

but majinsharingan was around WAY before u
hell I was around longer than you
we had a few debates
only 1 was worthy enough to be called legendary
Neji vs Shikamaru
he won but barely
i went to sleep lol

Actually, you just joined in june. I am not sure how that makes you around here longer than me. Hey, but you might have had another account.

[vane]

^^ He did. It was Hyuuga Master. He had been on since Jan I think. I cant remember.

[Masterofdeath]

Yea, I figured that out.

[hyuga_fan]

lol i dont lie

im hurt that u doubted me:cry: :( :cry: :( :cry:

lol

i asked hisham but he hasnt been on in a while so ill just ride out this noobishness for a while...v.v

[Masterofdeath]

It isn't that I didn't believe you I just had to know had you had been on longer than I.

[hyuga_fan]

lol i was jusk kiddin but its cool

but anyway back to the thread

madara would win because his space/time jutsu is better than minato's so he is basically untouchable(its like Goku's without the exhaustion)

[vane]

^^ But can that actually kill someone. I couldnt of think of how. Having speed alone doesnt mean you can actually just win a battle.

[hyuga_fan]

think of it this way

pein constantly tries to attk madara

and.....misses

so he eventually runs out of chakra

and madara makes his move with tsukuyomi, amaterasu, susano'o or some of the jutsu that he didnt teach itachi

[Masterofdeath]

He can't use any of those jutsu because he hasn't been shown using that jutsu.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Hey Vane does this thread need to be closed?
Cause I was thinking about the interview...Kishimoto basically said Pein is stronger than Minato, and Madara obviously isn't.
So is there really a point to this thread anymore?

[vane]

I have been thinking the same thing. Even still, Madara isnt strong as of now because of the lack of jutsu.

But yes I have thought about that since I first seen the interview. But Im not good with saying close a thread but yea it is kinda pointless to keep debating this.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Ya I have to say, there are alot of instances that prove how one shinobi can beat another but cannot defeat a shinobi the the deafeted one could beat.

So its possible that Madara could beat pein, however, we dont know the full extent of eithers power.

I agree witho you guys that it shouldnt be debated over until we know more of the twos abilities.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Ya I have to say, there are alot of instances that prove how one shinobi can beat another but cannot defeat a shinobi the the deafeted one could beat.

So its possible that Madara could beat pein, however, we dont know the full extent of eithers power.

I agree witho you guys that it shouldnt be debated over until we know more of the twos abilities.

Actually no it's not.
It's been proven Madara can't beat Pein.

Madara can't beat Shodamine.
And it's been said that Pein is stronger than Minato.
Therefore, Madara can't beat Pein.

[vane]

^^Exactly. Also that was when Madara was 100% Madara aswell. Now he is less and Monato is still stronger than the 1st.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Well if that were true, then why does pain take orders from Madara. He probably has some hidden power that we are unaware of, otherwise he is a pointless character (other than the fact he told sasuke about Itachi ofcourse)

[vane]

Do I honestly have to answer this ??? again. I guess I do.

Madara is the leader because he founded it so many years ago.
If I start an orginatization today and recruit Chuck Norris tommorow I am still the leader as I founded it. That doesnt make me stronger or a better fighter than Chuck Norris. It just means that I founded that group for my own desire and had people follow me. And Chuck would be one of my followers. So just because Madara is the leader doesnt mean that he is the strongest.

I hope that clarifies this for you. At least a little because I hear it all the time.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Do I honestly have to answer this ??? again. I guess I do.

Madara is the leader because he founded it so many years ago.
If I start an orginatization today and recruit Chuck Norris tommorow I am still the leader as I founded it. That doesnt make me stronger or a better fighter than Chuck Norris. It just means that I founded that group for my own desire and had people follow me. And Chuck would be one of my followers. So just because Madara is the leader doesnt mean that he is the strongest.

I hope that clarifies this for you. At least a little because I hear it all the time.

Fair enough and I agree with you, but we cant rule out that possiblity. But why would pain want to take orders from someone weaker than him. he could kill him and noone would care because noone knew of Madara.

[vane]

Because as of right now Madara has a good idea. An idea that Pein believes he can benfit from in the end. One that if necissary Pein probably wouldnt hesitate to kill him to achieve it.

[itachi0110]

ok but we don't kno for sure who would win there isn't enough evidence as of right now pein wins

[Doctor Octogonapus]

But why would pain want to take orders from someone weaker than him. he could kill him and noone would care because noone knew of Madara.

Two things.

1, Pein also GIVES orders to TOBI.
2, Madara founded Akatsuki. That's why he's the leader. Because it's HIS organization.

ok but we don't kno for sure who would win there isn't enough evidence as of right now pein wins

Actually yes we do and yes there is.
Kishimoto has said this himself.

[itachi0110]

ok so explain matt, who would win

[vane]

I already have but he can more than happily do it to.

[itachi0110]

ok

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Pein.
Kishimoto said a few living shinobi are stronger than Minato.
Pein, being the strongest living shinobi. Secures the first spot.
The second, is not Madara because Shodamine was not stronger than Madara, therefore Madara isn't stronger than Minato, thus he is not stronger than Pein.

[itachi0110]

ok and i said pein would win i just didn't kno to much of madara, i kno alot of pein just not madara there just isn't alot to go on, i just don't kno alot about what Kishimoto talks about

[itachi0110]

oh wait i have a ? madara, and pein are stronger than minato

[Masterofdeath]

No, minato is the strongest shinobi ever.

[Smiley]

No. Minato is the strongest DEAD shinobi.

And oh wait i have a ? madara, and pein are stronger than minato

Madara is weaker than Minato.

[itachi0110]

ok because i read a previous post and wasn't sure thanks

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

so this thread is a done deaL ???

[vane]

Just about.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

what's Left ???

[itachi0110]

nothing really

[GangstaKage]

Ok.I think Madara is stronger then Pein.he has they disolving going thorugh thing technique mabob.Wich would allow him to dodge all of Pein's techniques.He also has eternal Mangekyou.Madara tells Pein what to do so there must be some strength respect thing or else Pein wouldnt listen.So I say Madara.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

^^ obviousLy hasn't read previous posts !

[itachi0110]

lol i kno

[GangstaKage]

I dont have time to read 34 pages of post

[itachi0110]

well u should it would save time instead of arguing with people like u over what we already went over

[Tsugaga]

Pein has six bodies so I don't think Madara would use Genjutsu on all of them and thats if he could. Pein know how Madara's Genjutsu works and would not let himself get caught. Plus Pein has the Rinnegan which makes him a lot more powerful than his normal state. Also Pein would probably be able to absorb or deflect any Ninjutsu that Madara does.

[vane]

I dont have time to read 34 pages of post

Well it helps to read at least half of them. As Itachi0110 just said it is extremely tireing to have to keep telling this to people where it has already been posted what? About 30 times. But I will do a breif rundown of it anyways to satisfy your need for information.

It doesnt matter that Madara is the leader. Leader doesnt stand for strongest. It just means they founded the group.

Pein has the Rin'Negan which is said to be the strongest of all the eye techs.

Madara can only teleport. He doesnt have any means to kill anyone a sof right now as we dont know any techs that he is capable of besides the teleporting at the speed of light. Which wont win in a fight against Pein.

So I hope that kinda clarifies this a little bit for you.

[Masterofdeath]

Yep, its true wat vane just said yet if they fought Pein would definitely lose. Lol! I don't see Pein beating the ultimate evil.

[itachi0110]

ok read what vane just said and u would kno why, actually i think u should also go back and read the 30 pages as well

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Yep, its true wat vane just said yet if they fought Pein would definitely lose. Lol! I don't see Pein beating the ultimate evil.

I don't see Pein beating the President of UPN either but this is Madara.
You seem to think Madara is some extremely powerful God of sorts.
Read the manga.
It's obvious he's not.
If you want more proof that you're overestimating Madara's power.
Read Kishimoto's interview.
He proves Pein will beat Madara quite easily.

[Summer.]

some members pmed me about this thread.

now, after kishi's words this thread is nothing more but pointless arguing.
even if someone's theory is good it's still nothing against author's words.

we'll close this for now, if anyone has any good reason why not closing it, please pm me.

[Zepzune]

Yes, the thread title does say Jiariya V.S Yondaime, but, i meant Shippudden Jiariya V.S Jonin Yondaime.

[rush rush]

This thread was already made and Jiriya would lose big time!

[Zepzune]

Oh, yes, i thought it said 5th hokage V.S Jiraiya. Sorry, i didn't read good enough

[rush rush]

Ah its alright happens to me all the time im series

[Zepzune]

Okay, i edited the first post, Now it's Shippudden Jiariya V.S Jonin Yondaime. I am actually not sure

[rush rush]

Ok

[Zepzune]

Okay, i still say Yondaime because at his Jonin level, he was probably still an excellent shinobi. And Jiariya is not that impressive except for his work in Fire jutsu and his Rasengan, but, Yondaime did make the Rasengan, but I'm not sure when he did, and, because he also knows fire jutsu and the Kuchiyose Technique [Summoning].

[MinatoNamikaze]

Oh ya no question. Yondaime deafeated a whole army when he was only a jonin so, I still think he is stronger than Jiriya then.

[D.I.Y Death]

And Jiariya is not that impressive except for his work in Fire jutsu and his Rasengan

So all those toad jutsu weren't impressive eh? Guess he obtained the rank of Sannin because everyone thought he was just a really nice guy.

[Muffin]

So all those toad jutsu weren't impressive eh? Guess he obtained the rank of Sannin because everyone thought he was just a really nice guy.

That's only half of it you forget to mention how he impressed hanzou by showing off his amazing card tricks.

[Zepzune]

So all those toad jutsu weren't impressive eh? Guess he obtained the rank of Sannin because everyone thought he was just a really nice guy.


Yeah, I forgot to put that down :p But i meant to, but yes you're right,the toad jutsu is what got him to be sannin [Well, kind of].

[MinatoNamikaze]

3rd and 4th hokage are considered the greatest of all time. Jiriya is not. That automatically means 4th would win.

[9TailedBijuu]

This fight would be a strange one because Gamabunta belongs to both Yondaime and Jiraya.. So if Gamabunta would be summoned who would he fight for?

[MinatoNamikaze]

This fight would be a strange one because Gamabunta belongs to both Yondaime and Jiraya.. So if Gamabunta would be summoned who would he fight for?

lol good point but I think I remeber someone (probably Jiriiya) saying that Yondaime had complete control over Gamabunta like Madara had over the Kyubi So I think Gamabunta would fight for Yondaime so he would automatically win.

[caleb08]

being that jiriyia tought yondaime i say jiriyia would win this one.

[D.I.Y Death]

3rd and 4th hokage are considered the greatest of all time. Jiriya is not. That automatically means 4th would win.

I'd like to see your source for that statement and if you say that interview its been proven to be a farce.

[darkninjaIII]

shippuden jiraiya vs jonin yondaime is actually a really good fight. i say yondaime.

[MinatoNamikaze]

I'd like to see your source for that statement and if you say that interview its been proven to be a farce.

Ok so the interview may have been false, but I still believe what was said in it. Minato would have gambuta which would mean the fight would be over in 2 seconds, plus minato has body flicker jutsu, jiriya couldnt defend that. And i think Minato would have learned hermit mode too but im not sure. he was still so young when he died he maybe didnt have time to learn it.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Sorry if this has been created.

Heres my thinking.

Minato would win for sure. he is better than sarutobi as is stated by sarutobihimself, who in turn is better than jiriya.

I say Minato wins.

[caleb08]

Sorry if this has been created.

Heres my thinking.

Minato would win for sure. he is better than sarutobi as is stated by sarutobihimself, who in turn is better than jiriya.

I say Minato wins.

ok well i can agree with you but as we all know pein is 100x stronger than jiriyia being that he killed him without breaking a sweat. so being that i know pein is far more stronger than sarutobi. so i still say pein. but you know that is my opinion. 6 vs. 1 ya minato can give it a shot but i can pretty much guarantee he will not succeed.

[MinatoNamikaze]

ok well i can agree with you but as we all know pein is 100x stronger than jiriyia being that he killed him without breaking a sweat. so being that i know pein is far more stronger than sarutobi. so i still say pein. but you know that is my opinion. 6 vs. 1 ya minato can give it a shot but i can pretty much guarantee he will not succeed.

Well I dont think Pein is 100x stronger. remeber pein said Jiriya could have killed him so he is not that much stronger. But thats just my opinion:D And I respect yours. we all think our fav character is the best (me pretty much leading the way :D :D :D )

[caleb08]

Well I dont think Pein is 100x stronger. remeber pein said Jiriya could have killed him so he is not that much stronger. But thats just my opinion:D And I respect yours. we all think our fav character is the best (me pretty much leading the way :D :D :D )

well i respect your opinion to and that's why im saying that pein may have said that jiriyia could have killed him but that was when he was a boy. he is a man now and is unbeatable at the moment, my opinon.:D :D :D :D

[MinatoNamikaze]

well i respect your opinion to and that's why im saying that pein may have said that jiriyia could have killed him but that was when he was a boy. he is a man now and is unbeatable at the moment, my opinon.:D :D :D :D

Oh I thought he was refering to him killing hi in that fight becasue he said that if he knew peins secret, he would have been killed. But i could have read that wrong:D

[millard87]

also in that battle manga 43,42,44 jiriya lose his arm becuse Minato
What manga are you reading
wait a min. i'nt Minato Namikaze is naruto father............................................ .......... i thought he was dead..............wow............................. ...........................................i forgot how came back from the dead any can help me out?.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............................
.

its a what if scenario he is still dead

that's ture

If your going to multipost you should stay on topic and whats true?

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Re-opened on account of the interview was fake.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Ya well they say the rinnegan is the strongest but just becasue someone says something doesnt make it 100% true. I already wrote a post on this and I had 5 incidents with manga Proof where someone said something that we were to take as fast, and then later was proven wrong. I know Im going to be yelled at for saying the author os wrong, but Im not, he is writing it to make things seem more dramatic at the time. It wouldnt be fun if Kishi aisd it was the second strongest og hte doujutsu. Its to add flair. Casue from what Ive seen Sharingan is stronger.

[vane]

Ya well they say the rinnegan is the strongest but just becasue someone says something doesnt make it 100% true. I already wrote a post on this and I had 5 incidents with manga Proof where someone said something that we were to take as fast, and then later was proven wrong. I know Im going to be yelled at for saying the author os wrong, but Im not, he is writing it to make things seem more dramatic at the time. It wouldnt be fun if Kishi aisd it was the second strongest og hte doujutsu. Its to add flair. Casue from what Ive seen Sharingan is stronger.

But regardless. We have to take it as proof. For now at least. Because all the stuff you found and then showed manga proof that it wasnt true was found later when the manga proved itself wrong. Basically what I am saying is that it wasnt proven wrong till later in the manga. Saying that you didnt know it wasnt a fact until the manga said otherwise. So until the manga proves us wrong (which in this case I doubt Jiraiya was wrong) we have to assume that it is fact because it was clearly stated in the manga.

[Hashirama]

It's a tie.

Pein is invincible without knowing his secret. He can revive his bodies.

Madara is also invincible without knowing his secret, according to what he said in this panel.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/10/

[vane]

For one of the first times I agree with Hashirama on account of neither actually dieing when being hit with any attakcks. But when we have a little more info on both I think this battle will be more in ones favor instead of being a tie.

[ghostrider]

i agree with hashirama

[amathews1998]

also in that battle manga 43,42,44 jiriya lose his arm becuse Minato also he also lost the battle because he can't do really anything with one hand so he was toast and it was just so sad that the great :jir: is dead...also by the way i got the information because my frenids uncule lives by manga store in japen and ever month he sends him naruto manga the thing that sucks it's all in japenies:mad: so we had to see with or what was happening it's like reading a picture book with words you can't understand:xd:and:lol:

[linksmolecules]

I seriously dont think Pain is or was a 100x stronger than Jiraya, Pain did have a hard time killing Jiraya, which is stated in the manga.

[Suicide]

okay the 2 strongest character's in naruto duke it out against each other Madara uchiha the founder of the akatsuki and the uchha clan with the eternal mangekyou sharingan against pein with the strongest eye technique(unlikely)the rinnegan and he has killed jiraiya and has 6 body's so who will win in this historicle battle

[MinatoNamikaze]

Hard to say becasue of lack of info on Madara. However that will likely change in the not to distant future

[Jackums]

Yea, we don't exactly have enough information on Madara. But just assuming that Madara is the leader of the Akatsuki for a reason, I'm gonna go with him.

[Jackums]

if you cant find info on madara go here http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Madara_Uchiha

madar would so win besides he's got ems

Yes, but this is according to the subbed, not the manga. So, we can't use the information from the manga to determine the outcome of the battle.

Yet again i say, we don't have enough information on Madara to determine this. We'll just have to wait until we get some more info on Madara in the subbed.

[Doctor Octogonapus]

Pein and Tobi are both unknown in subbed, therefore I moved the thread. I'll merge this with the others after responding.

if you cant find info on madara go here http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Madara_Uchiha

madar would so win besides he's got ems

That's valid in the subbed section but since we're here now use just the manga as proof.

1 EMS < 6 Rinnegan.

Yea, we don't exactly have enough information on Madara. But just assuming that Madara is the leader of the Akatsuki for a reason, I'm gonna go with him.

Madara is the leader of Akatsuki because he CREATED akatsuki.
We don't know who's stronger.
But I'm guessing from what we've heard and seen that Pein is stronger.

[Jackums]

Madara is the leader of Akatsuki because he CREATED akatsuki.
We don't know who's stronger.
But I'm guessing from what we've heard and seen that Pein is stronger.

I never said that Madara is stronger. I was assuming he is because he is the leader. I never said Pein couldn't be the strongest either.

[Smiley]

Pein is Madara's bitch.

[0ba]

But I'm guessing from what we've heard and seen that Pein is stronger.You sure? Madara has been shown to teleport/disappear, and he has also been shown to have attacks pass through him. How will Pein deal with that? And with his MS, he should have 3 MS techniques (Or one, since hes's shown only ONE eye, since there's one eye for genjutsu, one for ninjutsu, and the third technique, we're not sure of it yet, since Itachi's was a summon, I don't want to assume that Madara's is also a summon) and from what I remember, his sharingan eye is the right one, so that's for genjutsu, so he should have one or two really powerful genjutsu techniques, that should take care of the God Pein, or at least, hurt him bad, with his time-space jutsus and 100+ years experience, Pein shouldn't be too hard to defeat, imo. If he kills the 6 bodies, then IF there is a real one, he has to come out to heal them, right?

[D.I.Y Death]

Madara is probably a lot stronger but judging only on what we have seen Pein is stronger. Unfortunately for Pein Madara can teleport and phase out which makes it impossible for pein to actually land a hit.

For now its a tie but in the future we will see both of their true strengths and weaknesses and judge accordingly and properly instead of this crap shoot of a thread we have here lol.

[Jackums]

You sure? Madara has been shown to teleport/disappear, and he has also been shown to have attacks pass through him. How will Pein deal with that? And with his MS, he should have 3 MS techniques (Or one, since hes's shown only ONE eye, since there's one eye for genjutsu, one for ninjutsu, and the third technique, we're not sure of it yet, since Itachi's was a summon, I don't want to assume that Madara's is also a summon) and from what I remember, his sharingan eye is the right one, so that's for genjutsu, so he should have one or two really powerful genjutsu techniques, that should take care of the God Pein, or at least, hurt him bad, with his time-space jutsus and 100+ years experience, Pein shouldn't be too hard to defeat, imo. If he kills the 6 bodies, then IF there is a real one, he has to come out to heal them, right?

Good point. I'd most definately go with Madara. But who knows, we might later find that he has some massive weakness. Maybe a weakness to puppies :lol:

[0ba]

Madara is probably a lot stronger but judging only on what we have seen Pein is stronger. Unfortunately for Pein Madara can teleport and phase out which makes it impossible for pein to actually land a hit.The only reason I said so was because of his EMS. He can't be hit. And he has an EMS that should have at least on powerful genjutsu, and since he had his brother's, who developed his MS separately, transplanted into him, he should have at least one of his techniques too, like Sasuke got Itachi's Amaterasu, right? We are sure that he has powerful MS techs, that's why I said he would win, since he can't even be hit, and he can teleport.

For now its a tie but in the future we will see both of their true strengths and weaknesses and judge accordingly and properly instead of this crap shoot of a thread we have here lol.Yes, agreed, I guess we should wait.

[D.I.Y Death]

The only reason I said so was because of his EMS. He can't be hit. And he has an EMS that should have at least on powerful genjutsu, and since he had his brother's, who developed his MS separately, transplanted into him, he should have at least one of his techniques too, like Sasuke got Itachi's Amaterasu, right? We are sure that he has powerful MS techs, that's why I said he would win, since he can't even be hit, and he can teleport.

Yes, agreed, I guess we should wait.

Yeah for the record I'm 99.9% sure Madara would win but I can't argue it so I'm playing the objective card. Glad to see you can be objective too :)

[Muffin]

Yeah for the record I'm 99.9% sure Madara would win but I can't argue it so I'm playing the objective card. Glad to see you can be objective too :)

Pein could always use the god path to draw him near than human path to tear his soul out.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

couLdn't he just teLeport as he was being sucked in ?

[Jackums]

couLdn't he just teLeport as he was being sucked in ?

good question :confused: *waits for someone to come answer* ^__^

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

^^ thanks !

is it just me or are the names of the paths a bit exaggerated ! God Path etc



@Jackk15- DAMN you have aLot of rep for 566 posts !

[vane]

The only reason I said so was because of his EMS. He can't be hit. And he has an EMS that should have at least on powerful genjutsu, and since he had his brother's, who developed his MS separately, transplanted into him, he should have at least one of his techniques too, like Sasuke got Itachi's Amaterasu, right? We are sure that he has powerful MS techs, that's why I said he would win, since he can't even be hit, and he can teleport.

Yes, agreed, I guess we should wait.
Its actually more evident right now that Madara doesnt even have EMS at the moment or it is at least damaged to a point that it is useless to him.

Chapter 364 pages 16 through 18 kinda hints that Madara's Sharingan is either damaged or isnt there from him saying he wants things to be the way they should be then says his power (which is the EMS).

[Jackums]

@Jackk15- DAMN you have aLot of rep for 566 posts !

loll. :^^: They're mostly from my siggeh shop, keke. ^.^

[Suicide]

well Madara has the EMS that can bend space and time and is the strongest character in naruto while pein has the rinnegan and almost as strong as madara so i don't know