Itachi's Sharingan vs. Kakashi's Sharingan (OFFICIAL THREAD)

[Kakashi18]

My two very fav characters have the Mangekyou sharingan, but, which one is better..kinda tough to decide for me..they both do different things..Itachi's is more mental will Kakashi's is physical..I know for sure I like Kakashi's MS design better..hmm..what do you guys/gals think?

[Raikage's left hand]

Itachi's is more useful than Kakashi's although poth are very powerful.

Itachi's only requires eye contact to work, kakashi's requires him to lock on his target for a while.

[Shishi Uchiha]

true but if kakashi had more chakra and more control of his mangekyo sharingan then kakashis wold be more dangerous

[Senwyn]

Itachi because he had access to the secret Uchiha scrolls and so would understand the abilities given to the user. Kakashi would be stuck with trial and error.

[Deadlocked]

Itachi has more experience with it, and he's an Uchiha. Kakashi isn't a master, it's not his bloodline.

[Kakashi18]

true..but given the circumstances..just the fact that kakashi got the MS..who knows what else he can do

[majinsharingan]

Kakashi of course.
Kakashi's is Ninjutsu, Itachi's is Genjutsu, Mangekyo can withstand genjutsu, so Itachi's is useless, Kakashi's forms a black hole in the opponent.

[kstylegunz]

Itachi's more devastating. Kakashi still can't control it well so imma go with itachi

[majinsharingan]

You haven't seen Kakashi's obviously.
Kakashi's, if he has enough chakra...can destroy everything.

[Kakashi18]

You haven't seen Kakashi's obviously.
Kakashi's, if he has enough chakra...can destroy everything.

haha very true..if kakashi was closing his right eye, and had his Mangekyou sharingan in his left..itachi couldn't do anything to him..so basically all kakashi needs to do is..learn to control his MS better..and be at full capacity to beat Itachi..

[kstylegunz]

You haven't seen Kakashi's obviously.
Kakashi's, if he has enough chakra...can destroy everything.

im saying currently, besides itachi uses his more efficiently. Maybe kakashi will be stronger in the future

[majinsharingan]

No, I think a Black Hole beats something that isn't real any day.

[Kakashi18]

No, I think a Black Hole beats something that isn't real any day.

especially if that something real wont work on kakashi

[MisaMisa]

Itachi because it is his blood line and he uses it more

[KingTW]

Kakashi of course.
Kakashi's is Ninjutsu, Itachi's is Genjutsu, Mangekyo can withstand genjutsu, so Itachi's is useless, Kakashi's forms a black hole in the opponent.

while I agree Kakashi's is more powerful, the key factor in all of this is time. It takes Kakashi quite a while to set up his Mangekyo for use, while Itachi simply closes and opens his eyes, Kakashi would not have the time to get his Mangekyo set up, therefore I believe that Itachi would win. If they were to both b set up and rdy 2 go at the exact same time, then I would say Kakashi's, but Kakashi's is way 2 time consuming, so Itachi would win

Also please give me the source in which it says Mangekyo can withstand genjutsu, because I don't believe we've seen a Mangekyo vs Mangekyo sharingan showdown.

[Summer.]

I'll have to agree xD
+after using mangekyou kakashi is always completely worn out.

[Smiley]

If Kakashi had more chakra he'd be able to own Itachi.

But this,if I got it right,is ms vs. ms not Kakashi vs. Itachi
Itachi's is better if your opponent never saw it before, cause you would easily catch his sight and put him in genjutsu,while if it's not, then it's pretty useless.. Cause only untrained would fall for the same thing twice.

While with Kakashi's, it does not matter if it's first or second time you fight the opponent.

So, I say Kakashi's.

[Kakashi18]

I say..kakashi's is better overall..its more powerful, looks cooler, and like smiley said, no matter what your pretty much screwed..but..kingTW is also right..kakashi's takes a while to charge..so i say..as soon as kakashi can improve the amount of time it takes to use it..he would most likely be able to send itachi into oblivion..or anyone else unlucky enough to piss him off..one thing I'd like to note..I think the way kakashi got his MS is more respectful than Itachi..thus it is more powerful..some theory's are that He trained extremely hard..and another is that because he lost all his friends and family, he got it..either way..its better than killing your best friend..(I'm also aware of the whole "tobi got his MS who is in turn obito, so kakashi also got his MS, but that doesn't make sense to me..even if tobi is obito..kakashi learned over 1000 jutsu's on his own and I believe he got his MS on his own)

[PriscillaXOXOXOX]

Itachi, Kakashi got his ass kicked already.

[Kakashi18]

Itachi, Kakashi got his ass kicked already.

Not really, he didn't have the mangekyou sharingan back then.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Both are masters of ninjitsu, gengitsu and taijitsu ! ! ! But I beLieve Kakashi wouLd win ! ! ! He trains so much, so he shouLd be abLe to improVe his vortex jutsu ! ! !

[sT@r]

Itachi Mangekyou ... :)

[majinsharingan]

No.
Kakashi Mangekyo.
What good will an illusion do against someone who can't be fooled by Illusions?
And Kakashi's is a black hole....that's impossible to defeat.

[The8tailed1]

but still itachi is a true heir to the sharingan.

[kstylegunz]

I still like itachi's more than kakashi's

[majinsharingan]

but still itachi is a true heir to the sharingan.

Yes but Kakashi mastered it on his own.
And he created a Second Mangekyo.

[kstylegunz]

i prefer illusion than warp hole plus its not a black hole, Wind tunnel is more like a black hole

[majinsharingan]

i prefer illusion than warp hole plus its not a black hole, Wind tunnel is more like a black hole

Yes and No.
Wind Tunnel is more like a black hole in the form of more suction.
But overall they have the same effect, being sucked in, except one slowly destroys the user.

[Ido]

He ripped off Deidara's arm, he can tp from places, so i say Kakashi.

[iRob]

Kakashi It could send itachi to another place

[duckofdoom99]

i say itachi kakashis takes way to long to build up and use it. when he first activated ms it took him the same amount of time as it took for sakura and chiyo to beat sasori and gais team to beat their counter parts

[The8tailed1]

i say itachi kakashis takes way to long to build up and use it. when he first activated ms it took him the same amount of time as it took for sakura and chiyo to beat sasori and gais team to beat their counter parts

True, and once again like a broken record I must mention that kakashi is not an heir to the kekki genkai so of course his is weaker than itachi's.

[uchiha geek]

yea i like kakashi better but he is not an uchiha therefore i would have to say itachi's mangekyou sharingan is better

[Dr. Lecter]

itachis would win because kakashis takes forever

[FireNinja]

There are 3 types of MS. Kakashi can use 1 and itachi can use all three.

[Dr. Lecter]

there is only 1 type of mangekyou and its the one that itachi uses

kakashis is like some kind of interdimensional portal thing comin out of his eye

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

there is 2 kinds of mangekyou in the storyLine so far- the uchiha one and the one kakashi has. the difference can be seen in appearance.

then there is 2 abiLities that the uchiha mangekyou can perform Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

i beLiev kakashi's portaL eye technique is a variation of Itachi's Tsukuyomi

[Dr. Lecter]

you guys are rite kakashi needs to train the sharingan a little bit more and he might be able to defeat itachi but rite now itachi is the better 1

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Kakshis

and your reason is ?

[**Marisa**]

i say itachi kakashis takes way to long to build up and use it. when he first activated ms it took him the same amount of time as it took for sakura and chiyo to beat sasori and gais team to beat their counter parts

No, i don,t think that is true, you know... In manga it only lasted for a few moments, but i think we all agree that anime is making every fight lasts for ages... And it was the same in this case. Kakashi does not need that much time to activate his MS. And so, I have to point out how little time it took for Kakashi to activate and fully use his MS when he blew that explosion into another dimension... it all happened in a few seconds... and at that point of a fight he was already exhausted.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

No, i don,t think that is true, you know... In manga it only lasted for a few moments, but i think we all agree that anime is making every fight lasts for ages... And it was the same in this case. Kakashi does not need that much time to activate his MS. And so, I have to point out how little time it took for Kakashi to activate and fully use his MS when he blew that explosion into another dimension... it all happened in a few seconds... and at that point of a fight he was already exhausted.

this is a good point ! kakashi's ms probabLy didn't take as Long in the manga as it did in the anime ! and yes his inter-dimensionaL jutsu is fairLy compLicated so it's excusabLe that he was exhausted, especiaLLy considering the Large expLosion he sucked in !

[duckofdoom99]

this is a good point ! kakashi's ms probabLy didn't take as Long in the manga as it did in the anime ! and yes his inter-dimensionaL jutsu is fairLy compLicated so it's excusabLe that he was exhausted, especiaLLy considering the Large expLosion he sucked inNot taking as long is still no where near as good as itachis which takes no time at all. Ill give ou that it may have taken less time then it appeared to, but it still took time and from what we have seen of itachi's his takes no time to build up and he uses it right away.

[Kakashi18]

Not taking as long is still no where near as good as itachis which takes no time at all. Ill give ou that it may have taken less time then it appeared to, but it still took time and from what we have seen of itachi's his takes no time to build up and he uses it right away.

if kakashi has his eyes closed for 3 seconds(about as long as it took for his MS to charge for that explosion) then he opens only his mangekyou sharingan, itachi's will be useless and kakashi will be free to suck itachi into another dimension.

[Dr. Lecter]

wat r u talking about???

kakashi's MS takes about 5 mins

did u see him fight deidara

it took him FOREVER

kakashi would be charging his MS when itachi would blink his eye and kakashi would be dead

[Shishi Uchiha]

if it took 5 min to make kakashis mangekyo then why when deidaras clone blew himself up he used it in like 5 seconds

[duckofdoom99]

if kakashi has his eyes closed for 3 seconds(about as long as it took for his MS to charge for that explosion) then he opens only his mangekyou sharingan, itachi's will be useless and kakashi will be free to suck itachi into another dimension. Are you serious? You want him to completely close his eyes while fighting itachi? He would be dead before his MS was ready. Itachi isn't goign to sit idly by and let kakshi prepare his sharingan for 3 seconds, he is going to attack him whether or not kakshi is ready. So yeah kakashi might avoid and eye attack, but i don't think he avoids kunai knives or shuriken with his eyes closed.

[Kakashi18]

Are you serious? You want him to completely close his eyes while fighting itachi? He would be dead before his MS was ready. Itachi isn't goign to sit idly by and let kakshi prepare his sharingan for 3 seconds, he is going to attack him whether or not kakshi is ready. So yeah kakashi might avoid and eye attack, but i don't think he avoids kunai knives or shuriken with his eyes closed.

don't think so, Itachi isn't stupid, kakashi is a master of substitution jutsu's.. if Itachi charged kakashi he would never hit the real kakashi.. 3 seconds is not that long.

[MY04STI]

there is 2 kinds of mangekyou in the storyLine so far- the uchiha one and the one kakashi has. the difference can be seen in appearance.

then there is 2 abiLities that the uchiha mangekyou can perform Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

i beLiev kakashi's portaL eye technique is a variation of Itachi's Tsukuyomi

I agree here, and who is to say Itachi can't create the "black hole" as well? the black hole Kakashi created could be a inexperience use of Tsukuyomi which is pretty advance. Yeah It physically took Deidra's arm and took the explosion to a different dimension but I'm pretty sure if Itachi wanted to he can do it as well but whats the point when he can just own you with breaking your mind down to the point where you can't even stand? Reading the recent manga chapter 388, In my opinion Itachi would own Kakashi.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

I agree here, and who is to say Itachi can't create the "black hole" as well? the black hole Kakashi created could be a inexperience use of Tsukuyomi which is pretty advance. Yeah It physically took Deidra's arm and took the explosion to a different dimension but I'm pretty sure if Itachi wanted to he can do it as well but whats the point when he can just own you with breaking your mind down to the point where you can't even stand? Reading the recent manga chapter 388, In my opinion Itachi would own Kakashi.

yea thanks for agreeing.
but i wiLL have to disagRee with you on your next point ! i have aLready stated that itachi and kakashi have diFFerent mangekyou sharingans ! i beLieve that this means they aLso produce diFFerent jutsu's ! because kakashi has a maLfunctioning sharingan, he uses variants of uchiha jutsu's that onLy his maLfunctioning sharingan can produce !

weLL why wouLd you want to use kakashi's inter-dimension portaL? hRRRRRm Let's see... - torture your enemy so he is exhausted
- transfer his Legs into another dimension?

which one is cooLer? which one wouLd heLp you more in a battLe?
and they both get exhausted after using these jutsu so why not?

[majinsharingan]

I agree here, and who is to say Itachi can't create the "black hole" as well? the black hole Kakashi created could be a inexperience use of Tsukuyomi which is pretty advance. Yeah It physically took Deidra's arm and took the explosion to a different dimension but I'm pretty sure if Itachi wanted to he can do it as well but whats the point when he can just own you with breaking your mind down to the point where you can't even stand? Reading the recent manga chapter 388, In my opinion Itachi would own Kakashi.

1. Kakashi created this Mangekyo himself, look at his Mangekyo and Itachi's. They are different.
2. Itachi could do that but in Genjutsu, not out of genjutsu though.
3. Genjutsu does not affect the Mangekyo, therefore Itachi cannot do anything in this Sharingan battle. Kakashi uses his Mangekyo, black hole, Itachi is done.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

majinsharingan,

why do you say that genjutsu has no effect on MS?

we saw itachi catch kakashi with a genjutsu and kakashi's sharingan was showing !

furthermore this whoLe point about the vortex, i don't think it can kiLL itachi.
whiLe it is sucking in itachi, itachi can Look at kakashi's normaL eye and trap him in a genjutsu

[majinsharingan]

majinsharingan,

why do you say that genjutsu has no effect on MS?

we saw itachi catch kakashi with a genjutsu and kakashi's sharingan was showing !

furthermore this whoLe point about the vortex, i don't think it can kiLL itachi.
whiLe it is sucking in itachi, itachi can Look at kakashi's normaL eye and trap him in a genjutsu

1. Kakashi closes his other eye while using Mangekyo.
2. Even if he does not normally, he knows better, he's already been trapped once.
3. We never once saw Itachi catch Kakashi with genjutsu while Mangekyo was activated.
4. It's a BLACK HOLE! It can kill anyone, no matter how strong you are, you get hit with a black hole, you will die.
Deidara escaped cause of bad aim, the black hole got his arm instead of his body or head.

[duckofdoom99]

What about itachi's amartasu(not how you spell it). He could just pwn kakashi by burning him with black flames. He isnt stuck with genjutsu he also has the ninjutsu.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

1. Kakashi closes his other eye while using Mangekyo.
2. Even if he does not normally, he knows better, he's already been trapped once.
3. We never once saw Itachi catch Kakashi with genjutsu while Mangekyo was activated.
4. It's a BLACK HOLE! It can kill anyone, no matter how strong you are, you get hit with a black hole, you will die.
Deidara escaped cause of bad aim, the black hole got his arm instead of his body or head.

if kakashi cLoses his other eye then his vision is so bLurry its not even funny, pLus how sLow does the vortex move ? he was bareLy keeping track of deidara who was haLf caught in the vortex. it Leaves kakashi VERY VERY vunerabLe ! itachi onLy needs haLf a chance and his opponent is dead !

this means that say theoreticaLLy itachi used a substitution and ended up behind kakashi, weLL kakashi wouLd be screwed !

[majinsharingan]

What about itachi's amartasu(not how you spell it). He could just pwn kakashi by burning him with black flames. He isnt stuck with genjutsu he also has the ninjutsu.

Ameratsu isn't Mangekyo.


if kakashi cLoses his other eye then his vision is so bLurry its not even funny

Well he could still see well enough to jump from log to log without stumbling.

pLus how sLow does the vortex move ? he was bareLy keeping track of deidara who was haLf caught in the vortex. it Leaves kakashi VERY VERY vunerabLe ! itachi onLy needs haLf a chance and his opponent is dead !

What part of black hole did you not understand?
Black Holes' don't move towards what they want.
No what they want moves towards them!
Plus, the black hole forms ON the opponent.
There is no chance of evading it.


this means that say theoreticaLLy itachi used a substitution and ended up behind kakashi, weLL kakashi wouLd be screwed ![/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Ameratsu isn't Mangekyo.


it's a jutsu you can onLy perform when your mangekyou is activated !

Well he could still see well enough to jump from log to log without stumbling.

yea that's just bad naruto magic ! Like how they run faster with their hands behind their backs ! but how bLurry was the image of deidara? and it moved so sLow


Black Holes' don't move towards what they want.
No what they want moves towards them!
Plus, the black hole forms ON the opponent.
There is no chance of evading it.


dude it's not a bLack hoLe, why can't YOU understand that?
it's a inter-dimensionaL vortex !
and furthermore it's not aLL encompassing, he can't suck in the whoLe worLd, onLy what he can see and if itachi can get out of his sight then no other vortex wiLL come out of the back of his head is it?
and you can evade it, did deidaRa not do it?

[majinsharingan]

it's a jutsu you can onLy perform when your mangekyou is activated !

But it's not MANGEKYO.
You can only perform Gentle Fist with Byakugan active but that doesn't mean Gentle Fist IS Byakugam.


Like how they run faster with their hands behind their backs

There's er....actually true....

dude it's not a bLack hoLe, why can't YOU understand that?
it's a inter-dimensionaL vortex !

AKA....A BLACK HOLE!
Learn what a black hole is!
It's a VORTEX.
That sucks shit in and we don't know where it goes.
AKA Inter-Dimensional Vortex!


he can't suck in the whoLe worLd, onLy what he can see and if itachi can get out of his sight then no other vortex wiLL come out of the back of his head is it?

Yes but the thing is, this is sharingan vs. sharingan.
Not Itachi vs. Kakashi.
There's a field, no hiding, no running, a Sharingan fight.
Itachi can't use his, Genjutsu doesn't work on the Mangekyo.
Kakashi uses his, it's already active, he uses his on Itachi.
Itachi takes it head on.
This is comparing two techniques, not the people using the techniques.
Mangekyo doesn't work on Mangekyo, therefore Itachi can't use his.
A Black hole works on everything.
Therefore Kakashi wins.

[MY04STI]

3. Genjutsu does not affect the Mangekyo, therefore Itachi cannot do anything in this Sharingan battle. Kakashi uses his Mangekyo, black hole, Itachi is done.

When was it said that Mangekyo does not work against mangekyo? (I don't remember reading it anywhere)

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

But it's not MANGEKYO.
You can only perform Gentle Fist with Byakugan active but that doesn't mean Gentle Fist IS Byakugam.


yea i don't think 'duckofdoom99' was saying that ameratsu is mangekyou ! i think he (Like me) is saying that since it's MS vs MS then itachi shouLd be abLe to use ameratsu !


There's er....actually true....


WOW i didn't know that, hey how about you go advise aLL the oLympic athLetics coaches to heLp their athLetes because as it stands NO ONE RUNS WITH THEIR HANDS BEHIND THEIR BACK ! ! !


AKA....A BLACK HOLE!
Learn what a black hole is!
It's a VORTEX.
That sucks shit in and we don't know where it goes.
AKA Inter-Dimensional Vortex!

yea you got me, i worded that wrong *i tried re-wording it but it's overrLy compLicated and i confuse myseLf*. iL give you that point


Yes but the thing is, this is sharingan vs. sharingan.
Not Itachi vs. Kakashi.
There's a field, no hiding, no running, a Sharingan fight.
Itachi can't use his, Genjutsu doesn't work on the Mangekyo.
Kakashi uses his, it's already active, he uses his on Itachi.
Itachi takes it head on.
This is comparing two techniques, not the people using the techniques.
Mangekyo doesn't work on Mangekyo, therefore Itachi can't use his.
A Black hole works on everything.
Therefore Kakashi wins.

if itachi Let ameratsu go into the vortex, it might burn kakshi's eye on the way in reLeasing itachi from the puLL. i onLy just reaLised that it's sharingan vs sharingan !

[majinsharingan]

The same reason Mangekyo doesn't work on Byakugan, you can see out of it.
Plus, You throw a knife at a knife that's coming at you. The knives clash.
What happens after the knives clash?
Does the knife you threw keep going even after it's been knocked down?

[majinsharingan]

yea i don't think 'duckofdoom99' was saying that ameratsu is mangekyou ! i think he (Like me) is saying that since it's MS vs MS then itachi shouLd be abLe to use ameratsu !

No, he shouldn't.
Ameratsu isn't MS.
That's why MS is called MS and Ameratsu is called Ameratsu.
I don't see the title saying Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan + Ameratsu vs. Kakashi's Mangekyo.



if itachi Let ameratsu go into the vortex, it might burn kakshi's eye on the way in reLeasing itachi from the puLL. i onLy just reaLised that it's sharingan vs sharingan !

IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!
Did you see Deidara's arm fly into Kakashi's eye?
No the black hole crushing everything, it has no air, which means fire is useless....even a star couldn't survive in a black hole, you can't attack a Black hole, you get near it you will be severely injured if not, die.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

The same reason Mangekyo doesn't work on Byakugan, you can see out of it.
Plus, You throw a knife at a knife that's coming at you. The knives clash.
What happens after the knives clash?
Does the knife you threw keep going even after it's been knocked down?

weLL if one knife is sharper, heavier, moving faster (overaLL better Like itachi) then yes the knife wiLL keep moving !
and sharingan isn't Like byakugan ! it doesn't go as deep into the body ! hence the reason itachi caught kakashi in a genjutsu !

[majinsharingan]

weLL if one knife is sharper, heavier, moving faster (overaLL better Like itachi) then yes the knife wiLL keep moving !
and sharingan isn't Like byakugan ! it doesn't go as deep into the body ! hence the reason itachi caught kakashi in a genjutsu !

That was Mangekyo vs. Sharingan.
Not Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
You saw what happened in the lastest chapter.
Mangekyo vs. Sasuke's Sharingan.
They canceled out.

Also, your comparing an Illusion to Invincibility.
And your saying that the Illusion is better?
Wow.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

No, he shouldn't.
Ameratsu isn't MS.
That's why MS is called MS and Ameratsu is called Ameratsu.
I don't see the title saying Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan + Ameratsu vs. Kakashi's Mangekyo.


dude your Lost. ameratsu is a jutsu you can use when you have pure uchiha MS. if itachi can't use it then why wouLd he be aLLowed to use the other technique Tsukiyomi (or however it is speLt) ???


IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!
Did you see Deidara's arm fly into Kakashi's eye?
No the black hole crushing everything, it has no air, which means fire is useless....even a star couldn't survive in a black hole, you can't attack a Black hole, you get near it you will be severely injured if not, die.

aLright first of aLL reLax it was just a theory !
and secondLy my argument was that the heat couLd carry on to kakashi's eye, not ameratsu itseLf ! are you saying that bLack hoLes can aLso destroy enegry and defy Newtons Law of conservation ? *this is a bit much, we are taLking about anime*

[MY04STI]

Mangekyo is just a higher level stage of sharingan. yeah Itachi and Kakashi both have mangekyo but the move kakashi uses with his mangekyo vs Itachi's 2 moves he uses with mangekyo (tsukiyomi and amatersau) will own kakashi imo.

I don't understand what you are saying mangekyo is mangekyo, amaterasu is amaterasu, black hole is black hole, you need mangekyo to use those moves so its moot point to say "Ameratsu isn't MS.
That's why MS is called MS and Ameratsu is called Ameratsu.
I don't see the title saying Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan + Ameratsu vs. Kakashi's Mangekyo."

cause kakashi can't make a black hole without his mangekyo and itachi can't do amaterasu with his either. its the stuff you do with mangekyo and itachi comes out to the top vs kakashi.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

That was Mangekyo vs. Sharingan.
Not Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
You saw what happened in the lastest chapter.
Mangekyo vs. Sasuke's Sharingan.
They canceled out.

Also, your comparing an Illusion to Invincibility.
And your saying that the Illusion is better?
Wow.

dude this is subbed !
they onLy canceLLed out because sasuke is skiLLed at dispeLLing genjutsu. yes sasuke's sharingan heLped but it's not because he Looked at itachi with his own sharingan, it's because sauke can dispeLL genjutsu

invincibiLity ? who is invincibLe?
iLLusion takes Less energy ! and you can prepare for another attack say your first faiLed. with kakashi, he get's significantLy weaker the second time !

[majinsharingan]

dude your Lost. ameratsu is a jutsu you can use when you have pure uchiha MS. if itachi can't use it then why wouLd he be aLLowed to use the other technique Tsukiyomi (or however it is speLt) ???


He can use mangekyo.
That's all he can use.
Look at the title.




they onLy canceLLed out because sasuke is skiLLed at dispeLLing genjutsu. yes sasuke's sharingan heLped but it's not because he Looked at itachi with his own sharingan, it's because sauke can dispeLL genjutsu


Really? Weird, did Itachi take Sasuke's hands?
I didn't see him make a hand sign.
He used purely sharingan.

invincibiLity ? who is invincibLe?
iLLusion takes Less energy ! and you can prepare for another attack say your first faiLed. with kakashi, he get's significantLy weaker the second time

A Black Hole is invincible in a fight.
No one can defend, attack or defeat it.
And one attack would do it.
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo. They're not running around, they are standing using their sharingan's.

[majinsharingan]

Mangekyo is just a higher level stage of sharingan. yeah Itachi and Kakashi both have mangekyo but the move kakashi uses with his mangekyo vs Itachi's 2 moves he uses with mangekyo (tsukiyomi and amatersau) will own kakashi imo.

Mangekyo goes by the name Mangekyo.
Look at the title.
It doesn't say Mangekyo and Friends.
It says Mangekyo.

I don't understand what you are saying mangekyo is mangekyo, amaterasu is amaterasu, black hole is black hole, you need mangekyo to use those moves so its moot point to say "Ameratsu isn't MS.
That's why MS is called MS and Ameratsu is called Ameratsu.
I don't see the title saying Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan + Ameratsu vs. Kakashi's Mangekyo."


Exactly.
It wasn't said that Itachi had Ameratsu in the title.
If your giving Itachi Ameratsu then I'm giving Kakashi Gogeta Summons and the United States Army.


cause kakashi can't make a black hole without his mangekyo and itachi can't do amaterasu with his either. its the stuff you do with mangekyo and itachi comes out to the top vs kakashi.

No.
Kakashi's Mangekyo IS the black hole.
He looks.
It happens.
That's all Kakashi's Mangekyo does, it's not a side-technique, it's his Mangekyo.
Ameratsu is not part of Itachi's Mangekyo.
It is a technique used once activating Mangekyo and doing some other ***t.
Because if it wasn't, Ameratsu would of been used constantly.

[MY04STI]

He can use mangekyo.
That's all he can use.
Look at the title.






Really? Weird, did Itachi take Sasuke's hands?
I didn't see him make a hand sign.
He used purely sharingan.



A Black Hole is invincible in a fight.
No one can defend, attack or defeat it.
And one attack would do it.
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo. They're not running around, they are standing using their sharingan's.

I'm sure you are confused, mangekyo is higher level stage of sharingan. Simple as that. its what moves/ninjitsu you use with it. Kakashi and Itachi both have different moves they use with there mangekyo. In the end Itachi would win without a doubt. About the black hole Kakashi uses with his mangekyo just move 5 feet away from the black hole where Kakashi is aiming and you'll be fine so its not invinsible. Deidra easily moved out of the way. and Deidra even says it himself when he was blurring up that it feels like Itachi's Tsukiyomi.

[majinsharingan]

I'm sure you are confused

Nope.

mangekyo is higher level stage of sharingan. Simple as that. its what moves/ninjitsu you use with it.

No it's not. Look at the title of this thread.
Does it say Mangekyo and Company?
No it says MANGEKYO.
Simple as that.
Kakashi activates Mangekyo.
He looks.
Black Hole.
Simple as that.
Itachi activates Mangekyo.
He looks.
Genjutsu.
Simple as that.
There are no side techniques.
Because guess what.
The title still says JUST Mangekyo.

In the end Itachi would win without a doubt.

Okay, google Black Hole. Read whatever comes up. You must not know what happens when your sucked into a black hole. It's called DEATH.

About the black hole Kakashi uses with his mangekyojust move 5 feet away from the black hole where Kakashi is aiming and you'll be fine so its not invinsible.

1. Kakashi uses his Mangekyo, the black hole comes after activating.
THAT'S THE MANGEKYO!

2. A Black hole is invincible. How many people have fought that shit and lived? No one.


Deidra easily moved out of the way. and Deidra even says it himself when he was blurring up that it feels like Itachi's Tsukiyomi.

Deidara was flying.
He didn't move out of the way, the bird moved, he rode it.

There's no moving anyway.
This isn't a all out battle.
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
Simple as that.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

He can use mangekyo.
That's all he can use.
Look at the title.

Look i think your the one that doesn't understand the thread. Itachi's MS aLLows you to use 2 jutsu that you cannot use without MS, if itachi isn't aLLowed to use ameratsu or tsukuyomi then what can he use?

Really? Weird, did Itachi take Sasuke's hands?
I didn't see him make a hand sign.
He used purely sharingan.


what i'm saying is that just because you have sharingan doesn't mean you can't get caught in genjutsu !

sasuke reversed itachi's tsukuyomi right? to reverse it you wouLd have to been caught in it first !




A Black Hole is invincible in a fight.
No one can defend, attack or defeat it.
And one attack would do it.
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo. They're not running around, they are standing using their sharingan's.

why can't you run around?
no-one said you can't run around ! this is MS vs MS, not kakashi's best move vs itachi's best move !
it's a fight with both of their MS to show which one i better ! because anyone can have a strong jutsu

[majinsharingan]

Look i think your the one that doesn't understand the thread. Itachi's MS aLLows you to use 2 jutsu that you cannot use without MS, if itachi isn't aLLowed to use ameratsu or tsukuyomi then what can he use?

MANGEKYO!!!!
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou

Did I say it enough this time?
It says what?
MANGEKYO.
Not Ameratsu or Tsukuyomi.


what i'm saying is that just because you have sharingan doesn't mean you can't get caught in genjutsu !

I know that, Episode 83 or something like that.
But Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo is the same as Knife vs. Knife.
They cancel out.

sasuke reversed itachi's tsukuyomi right? to reverse it you wouLd have to been caught in it first !

YES.
But it he didn't have Mangekyo.




why can't you run around?
no-one said you can't run around ! this is MS vs MS, not kakashi's best move vs itachi's best move !
it's a fight with both of their MS to show which one i better ! because anyone can have a strong jutsu, but that doesn't make them the best, naruto for exampLe has rasenshuriken but that doesn't mean he can beat kakashi ![/QUOTE]

[MY04STI]

1. Kakashi uses his Mangekyo, the black hole comes after activating.
THAT'S THE MANGEKYO!

2. A Black hole is invincible. How many people have fought that shit and lived? No one.


1. Kakashi needed a ninjitsu seal to create his black hole.

2. Deidra

[majinsharingan]

1. Kakashi needed a ninjitsu seal to create his black hole.

No he didn't.
He needed a Ninjutsu Seal to Activate his Mangekyo.

2. Deidra


HEAD ON!
Deidara was far away and moving. Kakashi got his arm.
No one can survive that jutsu if it hits them in the stomach or head, or even legs.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

MANGEKYO!!!!
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou
Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou

Did I say it enough this time?
It says what?
MANGEKYO.
Not Ameratsu or Tsukuyomi.


dude itachi doesn't just Look at peopLe and BOOM your caught in a genjutsu, he has to conciousLy decide to use tsukuyomi then activate that jutsu then make the eye contact to trap the other person ! it's not automatic ! same goes for kakashi, he didn't activate his MS and BOOM, a vortex shot out, he had to perform the correct preparations for it !



Mangekyo vs. Sasuke's Sharingan.
They canceled out.


this is what you said, i'm saying that this is wrong ! and once again, no-one said that mangekyou users can't be put into genjutsu !

[MY04STI]

No he didn't.
He needed a Ninjutsu Seal to Activate his Mangekyo.



HEAD ON!
Deidara was far away and moving. Kakashi got his arm.
No one can survive that jutsu if it hits them in the stomach or head, or even legs.

No, Kakashi needed the hand seal throughout the whole entire time. even when he sucked the self destruction to another dimension. As does Itachi he needs hand seal to use Amaterasu.

[MY04STI]

dude itachi doesn't just Look at peopLe and BOOM your caught in a genjutsu, he has to conciousLy decide to use tsukuyomi then activate that jutsu then make the eye contact to trap the other person ! it's not automatic ! same goes for kakashi, he didn't activate his MS and BOOM, a vortex shot out, he had to perform the correct preparations for it !




this is what you said, i'm saying that this is wrong ! and once again, no-one said that mangekyou users can't be put into genjutsu !

Exactly if you don't give Itachi eye contact he can point his finger at you as long as you see his finger your caught in his jitsu.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

HEAD ON!
Deidara was far away and moving. Kakashi got his arm.
No one can survive that jutsu if it hits them in the stomach or head, or even legs.

hRRRRRm i didn't think it was Like itachi to just waLk into a vortex but you probabLy know best ! now your making it sound Like they are sitting across a smaLL tabLe using MS ! ! !

there a hundreds of jutsu no-one can handLe head on
-rasenshuriken
- that bLast the 4 taiLs done
- chidori
etc

[MY04STI]

hRRRRRm i didn't think it was Like itachi to just waLk into a vortex but you probabLy know best ! now your making it sound Like they are sitting across a smaLL tabLe using MS ! ! !


ROFL!!!!

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

thanks i thought it was funny too...

we have the Last five posts....

do you think majin is sdiL hea ?

[MY04STI]

It shows that he still on the boards.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

yea but his profiLe shows that he's offLine !

we shouLd do this again !

[Uchiha-Madara]

that was great
but realy i think sasuke would win, cus i mean he has anger on his side

[rjvcrisen]

that was great
but realy i think sasuke would win, cus i mean he has anger on his side

Yes, but what have we learned from most anime, anger never solves anything.
Sure it can cause a lot of carnage and blow up big stuff, but it doesn't solve anything.

[BK-nin]

itachi of course! once he uses amaterasu it's over.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

that was great
but realy i think sasuke would win, cus i mean he has anger on his side

how funny is majin ?
who do you think won the debate ?

and uHHHHHHHHH sasuke is not in this fight.

[MY04STI]

how funny is majin ?
who do you think won the debate ?

and uHHHHHHHHH sasuke is not in this fight.

You definitely won

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

You definitely won

we was a team maYne ! ! !

i meant majin or sHaoLin_MY04STI :D

[linksmolecules]

Does anyone know if they battle each other in the hurricane chronicles?

[majinsharingan]

No, Kakashi needed the hand seal throughout the whole entire time. even when he sucked the self destruction to another dimension. As does Itachi he needs hand seal to use Amaterasu.

To keep Mangekyo active.
His mangekyo was developed through jutsu so to keep the jutsu active he had to keep the hand seal formed otherwise the Mangekyo would turn off.


dude itachi doesn't just Look at peopLe and BOOM your caught in a genjutsu

Funny. I seem to remember very clearly that happening in the Sasuke vs. Itachi fight that is currently happening.

he didn't activate his MS and BOOM, a vortex shot out, he had to perform the correct preparations for it !

Actually no. He activates Mangekyo, looks at his opponent, and the Black hole forms.


this is what you said, i'm saying that this is wrong ! and once again, no-one said that mangekyou users can't be put into genjutsu !

It makes pretty damn good sense, let's see here....Sasuke has a sharingan that's as strong as Mangekyo.....he gets put in Mangekyo, he gets the **** out. What do you call that? I believe that's called GETTING OUT!


hRRRRRm i didn't think it was Like itachi to just waLk into a vortex but you probabLy know best ! now your making it sound Like they are sitting across a smaLL tabLe using MS ! ! !

It's Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
It isn't an all out battle to the death.
It is a fight with the sharingan.
No Movement, no nothing.
It is comparing affects in a battle between Itachi's Sharingan and Kakashi's Sharingan and nothing else.


-rasenshuriken

Kakuzu.

- that bLast the 4 taiLs done

Orochimaru.

- chidori

Naruto.

[Uchiha-Madara]

i couldnt of said it better my self

[narutoruler14]

Itachi because he had access to the secret Uchiha scrolls and so would understand the abilities given to the user. Kakashi would be stuck with trial and error.
it dose not mater itachi has the blood trait and kakashi dose not he got his sharingan from obito uchiha and he can only use his ms 3 times only and itachi can use it constantly he created his own ms

[**Marisa**]

it dose not mater itachi has the blood trait and kakashi dose not he got his sharingan from obito uchiha and he can only use his ms 3 times only and itachi can use it constantly he created his own ms

So not true!
Itachi can use his tsukuyomi only once, mybe twice... it causes so much damage to his eyes and also uses a lot of chakra... so no, he can not use it constantly.

[Xinobi]

If Kakashi perfects it then he would be the most powerful ninja alive.


Black Hole > Anything living today

[MY04STI]

To keep Mangekyo active.
His mangekyo was developed through jutsu so to keep the jutsu active he had to keep the hand seal formed otherwise the Mangekyo would turn off.

Actually that is incorrect, in manga and anime you see Kakashi having the hand seal only when getting black hole ninjitsu ready. After he has it ready all he's doing is staring at Deidra trying to get him. After the failed attempt by Kakashi, when Deidra gets ready to self destruct Kakashi does not make any hand seal and activates mangekyo and the black hole, it just happens. just like tsukiyomi i'm sure there is an initial seal to use it but after using it so many times you can make it work. example byakugan has hand seals to use it but after neji and hinata using it so many times they just activate it.

I'm telling you mangekyo is just a higher level stage of sharingan. Its what the user can do with it that matters. Yes If Kakashi can control that black hole jitsu he'll be unbeatable but something tells me it will always take him a long time to get that jitsu ready. Just like how Itachi's amaterasu.

Now to the subject of the title; I still believe Itachi's mangekyo is better since he can use tsukiyomi and amaterasu. amaterasu is probably one of the strongest elemental jitsu out there to be able to burn through something considered indestructible (esophagus of Jiraya's frog) so quickly too.

Kakashi's mangekyo is still new he hasn't used it enough but that black hole just takes to much out of him and not accurate at all.

While Itachi can use tsukiyomi and right after amaterasu back to back at a mastered level.

[Kakashi18]

majinsharingan has been correct this entire time..this is Itachi's MS VS. Kakashi's MS..not other jutsu that revolves around the MS..just to clear things up..no amaterasu..k?

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

majinsharingan has been correct this entire time..this is Itachi's MS VS. Kakashi's MS..not other jutsu that revolves around the MS..just to clear things up..no amaterasu..k?

aLright this is your thread so it's your choice but i think both of you are deLusionaL ! WHY CAN YOU NOT USE AMARETSU ???

if you think itachi just Looks at peopLe and 'BOOM' they are caught in tsukiyomi then there's obviousLy no point in arguing here because you don't even read/ watch naruto ! tsukiyomi is ONE of two jutsu that itachi can use with his MS ! he makes the conscious decision to use it then prepares his chakra and makes the eye/ eye to finger contact ! if he activated his MS and suddenLy caught peopLe in tsukiyomi without thinking about it then how couLd he use another jutsu ?


Funny. I seem to remember very clearly that happening in the Sasuke vs. Itachi fight that is currently happening.


what's even more funny is how itachi seems to use other jutsu with his MS ! tsukuyomi is a jutsu that itachi decides to use and then performs it, it doesn't just happen !


It makes pretty damn good sense, let's see here....Sasuke has a sharingan that's as strong as Mangekyo.....he gets put in Mangekyo, he gets the **** out. What do you call that? I believe that's called GETTING OUT!


i say that kakashi gets caught in a genjutsu and you say that doesn't count because it's onLy sharingan. then you use sasuke's sharingan as your exampLe using the excuse that it's 'as strong as mangekyou' ! sharingan is sharingan and mangekyou is mangekyou ! stop contradicting yourseLf !

furthermore, (it's useLess because you don't take anyone's points in but) i'LL make it cLear that my point was that just because you have mangekyou doesn't mean you can't get caught in a genjutsu ! because sasuke DID get caught in a genjutsu ! i didn't say you couLdn't get out of one because obviousLy he did ! the point is that you CAN get trapped !


It's Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
It isn't an all out battle to the death.
It is a fight with the sharingan.
No Movement, no nothing.
It is comparing affects in a battle between Itachi's Sharingan and Kakashi's Sharingan and nothing else.


weLL the owner of this thread has favoured your view so i can't argue can i ?
so basicaLLy this thread is Kakashi's 'bLack hoLe' vs itachi's eyes that aren't aLLowed to perform any jutsu


Kakuzu.



Orochimaru.



Naruto.
they don't count because you said-


HEAD ON!
Deidara was far away and moving. Kakashi got his arm.
No one can survive that jutsu if it hits them in the stomach or head, or even legs.

so i win because no has taken a chidori or four taiLs condensed chakra 'HEAD ON' and survived !

if you don't agree with me then you win ! you keep using the same points and i'm sick of re-wording things in a way you can understand.

and sorry for doubLe posting but it's reaLLy Long and i'm repLying to two peopLe

[MY04STI]

majinsharingan has been correct this entire time..this is Itachi's MS VS. Kakashi's MS..not other jutsu that revolves around the MS..just to clear things up..no amaterasu..k?

like shaolin said your thread, but explain to me what good does mangekyo do for Itachi when fighting Sasuke with taijitsu (plain ol' hand to hand)? SO without a doubt your telling me that mangekyo does nothing to benefit Itachi at all for that last taijitsu battle they had in chapter 387? and tsukiyomi was initiated on page 13 in chapter 387, after the taijitsu/ninjitsu fight.

[Uchiha-Madara]

wow...ok...kakashi's eye isnt as strong as Itachi's, 1. cus Kakashi isnt a member of the Uchiha clan, and i was thinking of a 2, but i cant

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

wow...ok...kakashi's eye isnt as strong as Itachi's, 1. cus Kakashi isnt a member of the Uchiha clan, and i was thinking of a 2, but i cant

who you with ?
i thought you were agreeing with majin

i couldnt of said it better my self

then you say itachi is stronger

[hibar90]

Hi, I'm new. Well, so far it seems there are 3 original forms of MS. Tsukuyomi(genjutsu), Amaterasu(ninjutsu), and if you follow the myth of the two gods you should come across one more god(susano). I dont know if it's true but MS suppose to have 3 jutsus. I think this is true because if you see the latest chapter Madara and his brother have a different shapes than Itachi and both are different from each other too. We have seen Itachi form 2 (amaterasu tsukuyomi). Kakashi somehow managed to develop his own and create the 4th MS jutsu (due to non-uchiha blood perhaps). This jutsu seems to be an exception since Kakashi probably didn't get it the same way as other Uchihas (killing best friend) as he clearly state everyone he cared about die.

Now back to the topic we know tsukuyomi can be counter by another MS (kakashi's) now what about amaterasu, the undying black flame (read Itachi vs Jiraiya). Well I assume that Kakashi's black hole might be able to absorb the fire. Thus Kakashi wins. He also executed it instantly in desperation (he absorb deidara expolsion). Kakashi can do it 2 consecutive time without rest so one for absorbing fire and the other one to warp Itachi head.

If you want to compare the two character, eventhough Itachi is much more skill and faster at performing seal. Kakashi has more experience and has strategy (he is quite bright). And he master Raikiri, which give incredible speed and destructive power to one thrust (I think its more advantageous than rasengan but that's off topis). He also adept to Doton, Suiton, Katon and Raiton.

However Itachi saying he can surpass Madara is not a joke either. Madara and his brother presumably only master one technique of MS, because if you see Madara Eternal MS it only combination of 2 shape and missing the shape of Itachi MS. Itachi master 2. Madara EMS that's why he's the badass now. But as know, I think Kakashi's MS is better than Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi (Itachi MS).

[Kakashi18]

Hi, I'm new. Well, so far it seems there are 3 original forms of MS. Tsukuyomi(genjutsu), Amaterasu(ninjutsu), and if you follow the myth of the two gods you should come across one more god(susano). I dont know if it's true but MS suppose to have 3 jutsus. I think this is true because if you see the latest chapter Madara and his brother have a different shapes than Itachi and both are different from each other too. We have seen Itachi form 2 (amaterasu tsukuyomi). Kakashi somehow managed to develop his own and create the 4th MS jutsu (due to non-uchiha blood perhaps). This jutsu seems to be an exception since Kakashi probably didn't get it the same way as other Uchihas (killing best friend) as he clearly state everyone he cared about die.

Now back to the topic we know tsukuyomi can be counter by another MS (kakashi's) now what about amaterasu, the undying black flame (read Itachi vs Jiraiya). Well I assume that Kakashi's black hole might be able to absorb the fire. Thus Kakashi wins. He also executed it instantly in desperation (he absorb deidara expolsion). Kakashi can do it 2 consecutive time without rest so one for absorbing fire and the other one to warp Itachi head.

If you want to compare the two character, eventhough Itachi is much more skill and faster at performing seal. Kakashi has more experience and has strategy (he is quite bright). And he master Raikiri, which give incredible speed and destructive power to one thrust (I think its more advantageous than rasengan but that's off topis). He also adept to Doton, Suiton, Katon and Raiton.

However Itachi saying he can surpass Madara is not a joke either. Madara and his brother presumably only master one technique of MS, because if you see Madara Eternal MS it only combination of 2 shape and missing the shape of Itachi MS. Itachi master 2. Madara EMS that's why he's the badass now. But as know, I think Kakashi's MS is better than Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi (Itachi MS).
Pretty good, I agree entirely

[Uchiha-Madara]

very good,

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Hi, I'm new. Well, so far it seems there are 3 original forms of MS. Tsukuyomi(genjutsu), Amaterasu(ninjutsu), and if you follow the myth of the two gods you should come across one more god(susano). I dont know if it's true but MS suppose to have 3 jutsus. I think this is true because if you see the latest chapter Madara and his brother have a different shapes than Itachi and both are different from each other too. We have seen Itachi form 2 (amaterasu tsukuyomi). Kakashi somehow managed to develop his own and create the 4th MS jutsu (due to non-uchiha blood perhaps). This jutsu seems to be an exception since Kakashi probably didn't get it the same way as other Uchihas (killing best friend) as he clearly state everyone he cared about die.

Now back to the topic we know tsukuyomi can be counter by another MS (kakashi's) now what about amaterasu, the undying black flame (read Itachi vs Jiraiya). Well I assume that Kakashi's black hole might be able to absorb the fire. Thus Kakashi wins. He also executed it instantly in desperation (he absorb deidara expolsion). Kakashi can do it 2 consecutive time without rest so one for absorbing fire and the other one to warp Itachi head.

If you want to compare the two character, eventhough Itachi is much more skill and faster at performing seal. Kakashi has more experience and has strategy (he is quite bright). And he master Raikiri, which give incredible speed and destructive power to one thrust (I think its more advantageous than rasengan but that's off topis). He also adept to Doton, Suiton, Katon and Raiton.


first of aLL iD Like to to weLcome you to taLk naruto ! you seem to know your stuff, you bring forth good points and i congratuLate you for that !
but i can't just Let you in, i must insist you have fLaws in your post.

first of aLL, this is the subbed section so couLd you pLease 'spoiLer tag' things that haven't come on anime, eg- madaRa's powers.

why do you say that tsukuyomi can be countered by kakashi's MS ? he was caught in it and didn't manage to escape !

you assume that kakashi can absorb amaretsu. i don't beLieve that to be sufficient evidence to concLude kakashi the winner. we know that itachi performed amaretsu reaLLy quick to escape from jiraiya, the question is whether kakashi can activate his bLack hoLe in time.
but that doesn't matter because 'kakashi18' says you can't use amaretsu, which begs me to question why he wouLd contradict himseLf and agRee with you !

furthermore your Last paragraph is irreLevant because as 'kakashi18' said its MS vs MS or as 'kakashi18' has it kakashi's bLack hoLe vs itachi standing there !

[majinsharingan]

furthermore your Last paragraph is irreLevant because as 'kakashi18' said its MS vs MS or as 'kakashi18' has it kakashi's bLack hoLe vs itachi standing there !

That's what you've still failed to comprehend.
This is a battle between the mangekyo's.
Itachi uses his, Genjutsu doesn't work on the Mangekyo, therefore Itachi's is useless.
The Kakashi uses his, Black Hole.
Itachi is dead, and even if Kakashi could get trapped in genjutsu he would still win because a black hole sucks up everything, real or not.

[Kakashi18]

first of aLL iD Like to to weLcome you to taLk naruto ! you seem to know your stuff, you bring forth good points and i congratuLate you for that !
but i can't just Let you in, i must insist you have fLaws in your post.

first of aLL, this is the subbed section so couLd you pLease 'spoiLer tag' things that haven't come on anime, eg- madaRa's powers.

why do you say that tsukuyomi can be countered by kakashi's MS ? he was caught in it and didn't manage to escape !

you assume that kakashi can absorb amaretsu. i don't beLieve that to be sufficient evidence to concLude kakashi the winner. we know that itachi performed amaretsu reaLLy quick to escape from jiraiya, the question is whether kakashi can activate his bLack hoLe in time.
but that doesn't matter because 'kakashi18' says you can't use amaretsu, which begs me to question why he wouLd contradict himseLf and agRee with you !

furthermore your Last paragraph is irreLevant because as 'kakashi18' said its MS vs MS or as 'kakashi18' has it kakashi's bLack hoLe vs itachi standing there !

...let me then point out the flaws in your post..kakashi got trapped in Tsukuyomi when he did not have the MS..therefore what you say is completely irrelevant to this thread as it is MS VS MS not Sharingan VS MS..Secondly I did not contradict myself. I simply agreed with his post..just because he mentions Amaretsu doesn't mean i cannot agree with what he is saying..and since you think that without Amaretsu Itachi's MS is useless, lets say he can use it in this VS..I still agree with hibar90 that kakashi would be able to suck it up rather quickly just like he did with that exploding clone..

That's what you've still failed to comprehend.
This is a battle between the mangekyo's.
Itachi uses his, Genjutsu doesn't work on the Mangekyo, therefore Itachi's is useless.
The Kakashi uses his, Black Hole.
Itachi is dead, and even if Kakashi could get trapped in genjutsu he would still win because a black hole sucks up everything, real or not.

i think that you have faiLed to comprehend what mangekyou is. two peopLe have aLready stated that mangekyou is a heightened form of sharingan ! itachi's mangekyou is not tsukuyomi ! that is a jutsu that itachi Likes to use, doesn't mean that it is mangekyou itseLf !

maybe a bLack hoLe can suck everything up, i'm not arguing that because it's obvious ! but can kakashi catch itachi in his bLack hoLe ? that is the question !

and i wouLd disagree with your Last point ! kakashi has not shown the skiLL to dispeLL tsukuyomi and you can't perform jutsu (Let aLone waLk) when you are trapped in tsukuyomi

...let me then point out the flaws in your post..kakashi got trapped in Tsukuyomi when he did not have the MS..therefore what you say is completely irrelevant to this thread as it is MS VS MS not Sharingan VS MS..Secondly I did not contradict myself. I simply agreed with his post..just because he mentions Amaretsu doesn't mean i cannot agree with what he is saying..and since you think that without Amaretsu Itachi's MS is useless, lets say he can use it in this VS..I still agree with hibar90 that kakashi would be able to suck it up rather quickly just like he did with that exploding clone..

i simpLy asked, with what evidence do you beLieve that kakshi can counter tsukuyomi because he didn't the first time and hasn't shown any progress in countering it, so i was wondering why 'hibar19' thought that. i didn't disagree with that point, i wouLd have agreed had he provided evidence

and secondLy how can you agree with his post and not what he is saying? that is basicaLLy agreeing that he has the same view as you ! which is basiaLLy a spam post. because no-one cares unLess you provide your view as to why you agree.

LastLy deidaRa's cLone is not exactLy at the same caLiber as amaretsu ! but iL give you this point and debate it Later with you when itachi shows how amaretsu is used !

[MY04STI]

Genjutsu doesn't work on the Mangekyo

Prove it. You tell me who said that which chapter, what page, or what episode and how many min. in that episode and I'll look into it cause not once that I recall was it ever stated that genjitsu does not work against users that have mangekyo active to my knowledge. Very soon you and everyone else who thinks that theory you guys have created will be proven wrong in the up coming chapters.

I still agree with hibar90 that kakashi would be able to suck it up rather quickly just like he did with that exploding clone..

You have no idea what and how amaterasu is used. for all you know he could look at his target and they catch on fire. no one said it was a fireball attack move. Also read or watch Jiraya vs Itachi fight again you'll see that there is no exploding noise whatsoever after the execution of amaterasu just that he melted a hole in the so called indestructible frog esophagus. So looking at a target and making it catch on fire and burning stuff considered indestructible seems pretty damn powerful to me. Again what I'm saying is an educated speculation but its educated not random statements like the above I quoted.

[IownU]

That's what you've still failed to comprehend.
This is a battle between the mangekyo's.
Itachi uses his, Genjutsu doesn't work on the Mangekyo, therefore Itachi's is useless.
The Kakashi uses his, Black Hole.
Itachi is dead, and even if Kakashi could get trapped in genjutsu he would still win because a black hole sucks up everything, real or not.

Yeah now even tsukoyomi can be countered...

[Xinobi]

You have no idea what and how amaterasu is used. for all you know he could look at his target and they catch on fire. no one said it was a fireball attack move. Also read or watch Jiraya vs Itachi fight again you'll see that there is no exploding noise whatsoever after the execution of amaterasu just that he melted a hole in the so called indestructible frog esophagus. So looking at a target and making it catch on fire and burning stuff considered indestructible seems pretty damn powerful to me. Again what I'm saying is an educated speculation but its educated not random statements like the above I quoted.

In the retrieve Gaara arc Itachi did notice Kakashi's Mangekyo I believe. I believe if he could have taken Kakashi out with a Tsukuyomi then he probably would have. Anyway Black Hole > Anything...

No matter how you slice it, that is absolute.

Anyway we can only speculate. We never seen any of the eye dojutsus go at it really, just sharingan vs sharingan, byakugan vs byakugan and MS vs sharingan. As we seen the regular sharingan can be formidable against the MS.


Still Black hole > anything living...

Its simple science


AND FOR GOODNESS SAKES STOP DOUBLE POSTING!!

It is against the rules.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

AND FOR GOODNESS SAKES STOP DOUBLE POSTING!!

It is against the rules.

you have put one of my posts under kakashi18

[hibar90]

Hi again. There seems to have a lot of argument about whether MS can reflect Tsukuyomi. 1st of all I didn't bring any spoiler to this thread. The 3 form of MS was simply come from my analysis from reading the latest chapter with picture of Madara's and his brother's MS. If you read the latest chapter Sasuke break the Tsukuyomi with just his sharingan. For now let us assume he succeed it was due to his bloodline limit.

MS is only condition that occur in Uchiha blood but somehow Kakashi manage to get it without killing his best friend (Obito is dead as far as we know). Itachi mentioned to Kakashi that only an "Uchiha Blood" (aka. sharingan and MS) can counter the Tsukuyomi. "An Uchiha blood" COULD be a metaphor for people who master the MS, because only an Uchiha can master it. Kakashi has probably surpass Uchiha standard thus earning his "Copy Ninja" title. But, since he earned his sharingan from eye transplant surgery, all this time he has not earn the "Uchiha Blood" yet. But since he master the MS he has surpass normal Uchiha's and earn the status of "Uchiha Blood". So, MAYBE he can put resistance to Tsukuyomi like Sasuke who has not master the MS so far.

My assumption on Kakashi's black hole absorbing Amaterasu just come from my common sense (black hole absorb light speed including the sun in which Amaterasu is being compare to). I doubt Kakashi able to execute it in time if it's face to face. That's why I include the last two paragraph. Kakashi just always been good at hiding and he is very smart. And I think an explosion is much faster than a frog digestive system. So in desperation or a little mastery, Kakashi might be able to keep up with Itachi.

He can take his time and suddenly raikiri... than Itachi was a bunshin and appear in front of Kakashi. Amaterasu!!! Oh Raikiri was just a cover up for his MS. He absorb Amaterasu and Itachi head at the same time. (My fictional scene). Well my point is Kakashi isn't dumb. He know what he's capable of and device strategy to put his MS to use.

Btw, Amaterasu should be included in this discussion since it's a MS jutsu. And I'm a fan of both character. Kakashi as the best good guy and Itachi is the best villain. (Screw Naruto and Sasuke)

PS. (read the latest chapter) Next chapter we MIGHT be able to see Amaterasu in action. Then maybe we could conclude this discussion.

[hibar90]

Oh I'm terribly sorry. I was just browsing the topic and this thread was too interesting to ignore. Well, the only manga point I brought was 3 forms of MS and their own unique jutsu. But since this is anime section I shouldn't bring anything from the manga. If that is so I apologize. I'll shut up for now. But how do you put spoiler tag?

But Itachi did say "Uchiha Blood" can counter Tsukuyomi in anime in the episode sharingan vs sharingan. Tsukuyomi require eye contact (eye to eye) so if you didn't see the eye(keet staring at his nose or something) it wouldn't work. Kakashi had difficulties against deidara because the he was far away so the target become smaller. So it is harder to adjust area and power of the move. If it was Itachi he couldn't even get eye contact and make him more useless than Kakashi in that particular situation.

But we all should read the manga too since it's much more advance than anime and help prove our analysis and hypotheses. The anime did come from the manga and Kishi write the manga. My previous post last paragraph is an encouragement to read the manga as well.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Oh I'm terribly sorry. I was just browsing the topic and this thread was too interesting to ignore. Well, the only manga point I brought was 3 forms of MS and their own unique jutsu. But since this is anime section I shouldn't bring anything from the manga. If that is so I apologize. I'll shut up for now. But how do you put spoiler tag?

But Itachi did say "Uchiha Blood" can counter Tsukuyomi in anime in the episode sharingan vs sharingan. Tsukuyomi require eye contact (eye to eye) so if you didn't see the eye(keet staring at his nose or something) it wouldn't work. Kakashi had difficulties against deidara because the he was far away so the target become smaller. So it is harder to adjust area and power of the move. If it was Itachi he couldn't even get eye contact and make him more useless than Kakashi in that particular situation.

But we all should read the manga too since it's much more advance than anime and help prove our analysis and hypotheses. The anime did come from the manga and Kishi write the manga. My previous post last paragraph is an encouragement to read the manga as well.

uchiha bLood can counter tsukuyomi, that is true ! but the focus is on two words ! 'can' and 'counter' !

uchiha bLood can counter tsukuyomi, meaning you can't be sure if kakashi can or can not. furthermore-
we don't know if kakashi can dispeLL genjtusu the way that sasuke can. sasuke trained to beat sasuke and sasuke knows itachi uses genjutsu so he probabLy trained to counter it. kakashi is smart but i don't think he knows about uchiha capabiLities as much as uchihas

secondLy the word 'counter'. to counter something you must be caught in it !
even if kakashi managed to escaped from tsukuyomi, who is to say that he won't be exhausted? kakashi does not have compLete controL over sharingan (the way an uchiha does) and it does drasticaLLy depLete his chakra. so if kakashi used his sharingan to dispeLL tsukuyomi, my guess wouLd be that he wouLd be fairLy exhausted, he wouLd stiLL fight but won't be as strong !

finaLLy itachi caught naruto in a genjutsu using his finger ! he doesn't onLy need eye contact ! who knows what eLse he can use ?

[hibar90]

uchiha bLood can counter tsukuyomi, that is true ! but the focus is on two words ! 'can' and 'counter' !

uchiha bLood can counter tsukuyomi, meaning you can't be sure if kakashi can or can not. furthermore-
we don't know if kakashi can dispeLL genjtusu the way that sasuke can. sasuke trained to beat sasuke and sasuke knows itachi uses genjutsu so he probabLy trained to counter it. kakashi is smart but i don't think he knows about uchiha capabiLities as much as uchihas

secondLy the word 'counter'. to counter something you must be caught in it !
even if kakashi managed to escaped from tsukuyomi, who is to say that he won't be exhausted? kakashi does not have compLete controL over sharingan (the way an uchiha does) and it does drasticaLLy depLete his chakra. so if kakashi used his sharingan to dispeLL tsukuyomi, my guess wouLd be that he wouLd be fairLy exhausted, he wouLd stiLL fight but won't be as strong !

finaLLy itachi caught naruto in a genjutsu using his finger ! he doesn't onLy need eye contact ! who knows what eLse he can use ?

Sigh, Kakashi and Itachi haven't fight each other since Kakashi earn an MS. So, this discussion is for us to come with hypotheses based on analyzing what has been given to the reader. Hypotheses are not fact there always uncertainty and exceptions.Theoretically a black hole should pwn even the sun. But this is naruto verse if Kishi really hates Kakashi, Itachi fart should be able to kill him. So, of course I am not 100% sure of what the out come will be. I have brought points and scenario so I won't be repeating myself. I am only basing it on the data Kishi gave me through the manga and anime so far.

Now as the word "counter". What I mean by counter is you put some resistance. It doesn't really matter if Kakashi has become immune or break free from tsukuyomi. If someone throw a punch you can either block or dodge. Blocking is you get hit but avoid vital area and absorb some damage. He might get trapped but then break easily even more compare to someone. The fact that Kakashi master MS while Sasuke don't shows Kakashi master sharingan more. Itachi is even confuse how Kakashi manage to get it. Not all Uchiha even able to activate the sharingan. According to Itachi if sasuke earn MS there will be only3 MS users (4 with kakashi). And this come from the secret scroll. The scroll doesn't have much faith in the rest of the Uchiha and Kakashi exceed Itachi and the scroll expectation.

I'm telling you Kakashi knows his stuff. He has surpassed normal average Uchiha and earn the title "copy ninja". Otherwise he wouldn't be able to earn it if every Uchiha can do the same. He has complete control of his sharingan (not sure of his MS yet though). The weakness is his non-uchiha blood(genetically not metaphorically) absorb more chakra. If both Kakashi and Itachi has 100chakra. Kakashi sharingan would spend 10chakra/hour as Itachi 5 chakra/hour (not to be take as reference). Itachi also almost as worn out as Kakashi after using his MS 2 consecutive time. So the fight is pretty close at the moment and at shorter range it easier to aim for Kakashi. Kakashi wouldn't use it at the start like Itachi but rather as finishing move after avoiding some eye contact.

We are not comparing the two character but the MS. And if you are an Uchiha who master Kakashi MS and can activate it as fast as you want since you have the uchiha blood genetically (I am following your point) you can beat some one who master Itachi MS (both tsukuyomi and amaterasu).

Naruto is an idiot (he's funny that's why I used to like him) he can easily trapped by genjutsu than anyone from even the 12 genins in part I. And Itachi cannot perform tsukuyomi from his finger only normal genjutsu. It is a jutsu that come from one the shape of the MS.

[KyubiiRage]

I say Kakashis

[tentenxneji24]

i say itachi because he has very great genjutsu and basicly all kakashi has is chidori

[SASUKE081894]

not really i heard that itahchi has shriingan that is silver and that can blow your body up with a glace at part of you so he itahchi would destroy kakashi

[hibar90]

not really i heard that itahchi has shriingan that is silver and that can blow your body up with a glace at part of you so he itahchi would destroy kakashi

Any reference from Kishi? Please bring it forward. Btw did you mean amaterasu?

Have you read chapter 390? Amaterasu (is that what you mean?) blows fire like a flamethrower. Logically a black hole should be able to absorb it. But we are not 100% sure yet. He's currently losing to sasuke if he messed up this jutsu.

[aarthans]

itachi's sharingan. you could see the difference between how they use their eyes and itachi has greater control over his sharingan than kakashi has over his.

[Xinobi]

I will say again...

Black Hole > Anything alive

[majinsharingan]

Black Hole > Anything alive

That's gonna be a real kick in the pants if you win like that, lol.

[Xinobi]

Think about it. If Kakashi masters that jutsu to where he could do it at will then no one could touch him and that would prime him to be the 6th Hokage should anything happen to Tsunade. He could protect the village from any all out assault from any nation just by opening his eye. It cancelled out Deidara's attack. It would certainly suck in Itachi and anything he has to dish out including the Amaterasu.

[majinsharingan]

Think about it. If Kakashi masters that jutsu to where he could do it at will then no one could touch him and that would prime him to be the 6th Hokage should anything happen to Tsunade. He could protect the village from any all out assault from any nation just by opening his eye. It cancelled out Deidara's attack. It would certainly suck in Itachi and anything he has to dish out including the Amaterasu.

Not what I meant.
I was debating with like 5 people and having really long responses and nothing got through to them. And I meant it'll be really ironic if what you said convinced them. Although what you said is true, Black Holes pwn all.

[Xinobi]

Yeah...

Again for anyone who needs to see it...

Black Hole > Everything living

It is simple science if you think about it.

If you come out of a black hole by your own power then you would be God or god-like. A person like that doesn't exist in the history of Naruto past and present.

[Kakashi18]

i say itachi because he has very great genjutsu and basicly all kakashi has is chidori

if your serious...you fail...EPIC fail...wow...

[iCesiKuL]

i'd say itachi still has the upper hand. .

u guys seem to overlook that itachi still has amaterasu . . he only needs to look at his target and it devours it completely

like what one akatsuki said.. "a master with a stone can defeat a novice with a shuriken . .

obviously kakashi is a novice compared to itachi . . no matter how strong your power is. . if u cant use it well, then its no good!!

[majinsharingan]

i'd say itachi still has the upper hand. .

u guys seem to overlook that itachi still has amaterasu . . he only needs to look at his target and it devours it completely

like what one akatsuki said.. "a master with a stone can defeat a novice with a shuriken . .

obviously kakashi is a novice compared to itachi . . no matter how strong your power is. . if u cant use it well, then its no good!!

You should've read before posting.
It is SHARINGAN vs. SHARINGAN.
MANGEKYO SHARINGAN vs. MANGEKYO SHARINGAN.
Itachi uses Ameratsu WITH Mangekyo.
Ameratsu isn't Mangekyo.
This is comparing the effects of Kakashi's Mangekyo and Itachi's Mangekyo.
With that being said anyone who still thinks Itachi needs a major physics lesson.
Black Hole > Everything.

[Raikage's left hand]

You should've read before posting.
It is SHARINGAN vs. SHARINGAN.
MANGEKYO SHARINGAN vs. MANGEKYO SHARINGAN.
Itachi uses Ameratsu WITH Mangekyo.
Ameratsu isn't Mangekyo.
This is comparing the effects of Kakashi's Mangekyo and Itachi's Mangekyo.
With that being said anyone who still thinks Itachi needs a major physics lesson.
Black Hole > Everything.

Ameratsu and Tsukyomi are both parts of Itachi's Mangekyo sharingan. He is more adept at his Mangekyo than Kakashi.

Itachi's is more effective than Kakashi's. It takes Itachi alot less time to use ameratsu than Kakashi to make his implosion technique. And Tsukyomi is alot more efficient than Kakashi's.

I still think Itachi's Mangekyo is better.

[IownU]

kakashi's mangekyou isn't compared to black hole, black hole instantly sucks you , any1 counter kakashi's mangekyou when they are fast. Itachi uses amaterasu which is like 10 times hotter than surface of the sun, it will kill a human faster than a slow warping hole that sends you to another dimension.

Itachi also has Susanoo which is definately stronger than amaterasu

[majinsharingan]

kakashi's mangekyou isn't compared to black hole, black hole instantly sucks you , any1 counter kakashi's mangekyou when they are fast. Itachi uses amaterasu which is like 10 times hotter than surface of the sun, it will kill a human faster than a slow warping hole that sends you to another dimension.

Itachi also has Susanoo which is definately stronger than amaterasu


Kakashi's Mangekyo Sharingan is a Black Hole. A Black Hole beats anything. Go ahead and try and tell me I'm wrong. By doing so you make yourself look like a 3 year old. Because even my Sister knows that a Black Hole>Everything.

Ameratsu and Tsukyomi are both parts of Itachi's Mangekyo sharingan. He is more adept at his Mangekyo than Kakashi.

Itachi's is more effective than Kakashi's. It takes Itachi alot less time to use ameratsu than Kakashi to make his implosion technique. And Tsukyomi is alot more efficient than Kakashi's.

I still think Itachi's Mangekyo is better.

Muffin have you been to School?
It doesn't seem so.
It's a Black Hole.
Anyone who's taken a hint of a science class knows that a Black Hole beats everything.
There's nothing to do with Efficiency or less time or whatever.
In a fight. a Black Hole vs. Genjutsu and the Sun.
A Black Hole vs. an Illusion and Fire.
A Black Hole vs. Genjutsu and the Sun.
A Black Hole vs. a Star and Genjutsu.
If you don't know who wins between a Black Hole, a Star and Genjutsu. You need to go to school because it stands as a fact that a Black Hole beats any and everything.

[IownU]

Your one idiot, black hole's suck speed is faster than speed of light, I dont find kakashi's mangekyou sharingan having the similar effect. Warp hole not a black hole. 2 different things.

[majinsharingan]

Your one idiot, black hole's suck speed is faster than speed of light, I dont find kakashi's mangekyou sharingan having the similar effect. Warp hole not a black hole. 2 different things.

Black Hole. It is a black hole. The reason it doesn't suck at the speed of light is because if it did the show would END. And ending it with Kakashi sucking up the planet is not a good idea.

[IownU]

If it was a black hole it would be something like miroku's wind tunnel, well is it like miroku's wind tunnel? I don't think so.

[majinsharingan]

If it was a black hole it would be something like miroku's wind tunnel, well is it like miroku's wind tunnel? I don't think so.

It's a black hole.
It's Black.
It's a hole.
It sucks things into another dimension.
By definition.
THAT'S A BLACK HOLE!

[Raikage's left hand]

It's a black hole.
It's Black.
It's a hole.
It sucks things into another dimension.
By definition.
THAT'S A BLACK HOLE!

False. A black hole is where gravity is so powerful that not even light escapes from it. There is no such thing as passing through a black hole into another dimension, it ceases to exist as it torn apart atom by atom.

And we're not talking about Black holes here were talking about Kakashi's Mangekyo vs Itachi's Mangeyko.

lets list the pro's and cons of each:

Itachi's pros:
Can be caught by eye sight
Is instant
If required can use Amaterasu which takes slightly longer by like Kakashi's WILL KILL what ever is caught in it.

Cons:
Gone blind.
Uses alot of Chakra

Kakashi's pros:
Can use an implosion technique.
Can be both offensive and defensive.
Not blind.

Cons:
Slower than Itachi's
Is not an instant kill (he used it twice on Deidara and Deidara is survived.)
Not as proficiant as Itachi's.
Only 1 technique.
Uses alot of Chakra

Itachi's pro's heavily outweight his cons. Whereas Kakashi's...not so much.

[majinsharingan]

1. He used it once on Deidara.2
2. It's a black friggin hole.
3. A black friggin hole beats everything and anything.

[IownU]

It's not a black hole it's a warp hole, i dont care if you say it sucks up everything and you call it black hole, you called it wrong and it's a fact.

[IownU]

1. He used it once on Deidara.2
2. It's a black friggin hole.
3. A black friggin hole beats everything and anything.

There is a possibility you can escape a black hole so no

[majinsharingan]

There is NO possibility of escaping a black hole.
Jump into that shit. Tell me how you feel. You can't you've been crushed into oblivion.

[Raikage's left hand]

1. He used it once on Deidara.2
2. It's a black friggin hole.
3. A black friggin hole beats everything and anything.

My bad he did use it once, but when he tried to use it a 2nd time Naruto got to dei dei first so your right about that.

In the time Kakashi takes to use his Mangekyo, he will be burnt to cinders by Amaterasu, Kakashi can only use his twice, and is not as fatal as Itachi's. Kakashi can't control his Mangekyo to Itachi's extent.

Itachi's mangekyo is far superior to Kakashi's.

There is NO possibility of escaping a black hole.
Jump into that shit. Tell me how you feel. You can't you've been crushed into oblivion.

There is no possibility of even getting into a black hole. Whatever comes near a black hole sir cums to a process of spaghettification tearing apart whatever falls near by even its atomic structure.

[ED123]

Black holes are only theory and are not real so it really doesnt matter if you could escape one!

Why dont you guys just call it a black warp hole(LightBulb!) although by definition its a black hole but not by theory

Also before I put my 2 cents in this debate i would like to know are we arguing about the techniques of each mangekyou or an actual battle between the 2 using there mangekyou

[Praetorian]

I think Itachi's is more advanced, but i like Kakashi's more

[~Nel Tu~]

Itachi's is more advanced and I like Itachi's better

[ED123]

That would be one hell of a staring contest if they did fight :)

[Praetorian]

I think Kakashi's a better ninja, but yes, Itachi has a much better eye

[IownU]

Still it's not a black hole, it's a warp hole

[majinsharingan]

In the time Kakashi takes to use his Mangekyo, he will be burnt to cinders by Amaterasu, Kakashi can only use his twice, and is not as fatal as Itachi's. Kakashi can't control his Mangekyo to Itachi's extent.

Again this isn't a fight!
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
The Sun and Genjutsu vs. A Black Hole.

Black Hole>Everything.

There is no possibility of even getting into a black hole. Whatever comes near a black hole sir cums to a process of spaghettification tearing apart whatever falls near by even its atomic structure.

Exactly, there is no possibility of getting into one unless it forms ON you.
Then you're already in it.

[IownU]

Again this isn't a fight!
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
The Sun and Genjutsu vs. A Black Hole.

Black Hole>Everything.



Exactly, there is no possibility of getting into one unless it forms ON you.
Then you're already in it.

WARP F*CKING HOLE

[majinsharingan]

same F*cking Thing!

[Kaden]

easy guys. c'mon, you both are saying the same thing. isn't this what you are both trying to say: "kakashi's ms would win because his black hole would suck the black flames and itachi into wherever black holes end up." ???

[IownU]

same F*cking Thing!

NOT THE SAME GO LOOK IT UP

[IownU]

miroku's windtunnel is a blackhole not kakashi's

[Kaden]

i did look it up just to try and sort this whole thing out:

definition for warp:

Nautical. to move (a vessel) into a desired place or position by hauling on a rope that has been fastened to something fixed, as a buoy or anchor.

definition for black hole:

A great void; an abyss

Astronomy. a theoretical massive object, formed at the beginning of the universe or by the gravitational collapse of a star exploding as a supernova, whose gravitational field is so intense that no electromagnetic radiation can escape.

now, not to get all scientific or anything but flames are made of waves and radiation of some kind. what does the above definition say? i think matt is right in this one

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Not what I meant.
I was debating with like 5 people and having really long responses and nothing got through to them. And I meant it'll be really ironic if what you said convinced them. Although what you said is true, Black Holes pwn all.

haHAha coming from the most ignorant guy in this forum ! you majin, are the most notorious debater that doesn't read anything that isn't written by himseLf ! ! ! xinobi has aLso stated it, wouLd you Like me to dig it up in the neji vs gaaRa thread in manga battLes ?

[Mangekyo_Sharingan_BB]

It depends. Kakashi has to train his eye more and c'mon, we all know how crazy badass Kakashi is. But if he had fought the real Itachi and not that decoy when they were trying to get Gaara back Kakashi might not have won.

But considering the time until they next meet who knows.

And if i remember correctly Kakashi said he sucked him into another dimension, which sounds like a black whole to me but we really dont know the true nature of a black hole.

[majinsharingan]

haHAha coming from the most ignorant guy in this forum ! you majin, are the most notorious debater that doesn't read anything that isn't written by himseLf ! ! ! xinobi has aLso stated it, wouLd you Like me to dig it up in the neji vs gaaRa thread in manga battLes ?

Funny you calling me ignorant and yet your using my style against me.
Learn your audience.
Those comments aren't even worth it.

[Raikage's left hand]

Again this isn't a fight!
This is Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
The Sun and Genjutsu vs. A Black Hole.

Black Hole>Everything.


Yes and Itachi's Mangeyko is superior to Kakashi's.

Itachi is much more comfortable using his, his is superior to Kakashi's. Kakashi's mangekyo is way to slow to use in a real battle. He admitted himself he can't control the Size or the location properly yet, whereas Itachi's proficiency with his Mangekyo doesn't leave him limited as Kakashi's does.

[majinsharingan]

Yes and Itachi's Mangeyko is superior to Kakashi's.

Itachi is much more comfortable using his, his is superior to Kakashi's. Kakashi's mangekyo is way to slow to use in a real battle. He admitted himself he can't control the Size or the location properly yet, whereas Itachi's proficiency with his Mangekyo doesn't leave him limited as Kakashi's does.

This isn't a real battle.
It's Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
Genjutsu and Fire vs. Black Hole.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

Funny you calling me ignorant and yet your using my style against me.
Learn your audience.
Those comments aren't even worth it.

your Like a poLitician that never gets to the point !
aLL you do in these forums is argue your point, and when it gets proved wrong you-

a) insist that you are right
b) ignore that you are wrong and carry on with the other arguments you have
or
c) bring up irreLevant info to detract attention ! ! !

[Raikage's left hand]

This isn't a real battle.
It's Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
Genjutsu and Fire vs. Black Hole.

Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan

Not simply Genjutsu and fire vs Black hole.

Itachi's is more adept whereas Kakashi's takes too long and can be avoided.

Itachi's Mangekyo is leaps and bounds ahead of Kakashi's.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

yea i am agreeing with you muffin ! it is MS, not onLy it's attacks ! itachi has mastered his MS ! but kakashi wiLL never see the 'darkness' ! ! ! so kakashi aLso has an advantage over itachi ! ! !

[IownU]

Itachi also has susano

[majinsharingan]

Itachi also has susano

Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan VS Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan

Not simply Genjutsu and fire vs Black hole.

Itachi's is more adept whereas Kakashi's takes too long and can be avoided.

Itachi's Mangekyo is leaps and bounds ahead of Kakashi's.

THERES NO TIME!
IT'S EFFECT VS. EFFECT!

[majinsharingan]

your Like a poLitician that never gets to the point !
aLL you do in these forums is argue your point, and when it gets proved wrong you-

a) insist that you are right
b) ignore that you are wrong and carry on with the other arguments you have
or
c) bring up irreLevant info to detract attention ! ! !

Hm...I'm done with you. Save your bullshit for someone who cares, kay? :)

[IownU]

your Like a poLitician that never gets to the point !
aLL you do in these forums is argue your point, and when it gets proved wrong you-

a) insist that you are right
b) ignore that you are wrong and carry on with the other arguments you have
or
c) bring up irreLevant info to detract attention ! ! !

True, Matt goes on and on about everything

[majinsharingan]

True, Matt goes on and on about everything

Again, try harder.
Your attempts are just pathetic.

[IownU]

Again, try harder.
Your attempts are just pathetic.

lol

[majinsharingan]

lol that made me laugh

Okay....you gotta weird sense of humor.

[majinsharingan]

I'm laughing because you're so pathetic. If the worst you can say that to me, then the last thing I'm gonna worry about is you killing me you stupid pussbag. leave this site. Being in the presence of weak flabby trash like you make me sick.

Heh-heh-heh.
That's more like it.
But still.
I don't care :p

[Kaden]

man you guys are missing the point

KJ: you win if they faced each other and activated their ms sharingan at the same time. kakashi's does take longer.

shaolin_rugby: on this thread have you made any good points, besides your first post? or are you just trash-talking matt?

matt has stated that this battle is effect vs. effect. he's the creator of it, so why not try and fight according to the guidelines?

[majinsharingan]

man you guys are missing the point

KJ: you win if they faced each other and activated their ms sharingan at the same time. kakashi's does take longer.

shaolin_rugby: on this thread have you made any good points, besides your first post? or are you just trash-talking matt?

matt has stated that this battle is effect vs. effect. he's the creator of it, so why not try and fight according to the guidelines?

I'm not the creator of the thread.....
and this is effect vs. effect though.
It's Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
Which means it is Genjutsu and the Sun vs. a Black Hole.

[Kaden]

which pretty much goes in kakashi's favor

[Xinobi]

About time you guys saw the light.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

shaolin_rugby: on this thread have you made any good points, besides your first post? or are you just trash-talking matt?

matt has stated that this battle is effect vs. effect. he's the creator of it, so why not try and fight according to the guidelines?



i don't know, have you read any of them ?

majin isn't the creator of this thread so obviousLy you aren't reading anything properLy ! ! !

what are you Like majin's second account that agree's with himseLf ? no-one has agreed with majin but you (n one other guy) so i'm Lookin that way !

Hm...I'm done with you. Save your bullshit for someone who cares, kay? :)


good, then don't post any stupid comments about the peopLe that wreck you when the debate is done ! i wrecked you before and the creator of this thread changed it's meaning because you were wrong so stop posting that you weren't getting through to anyone ! ! !

[Raikage's left hand]

I'm not the creator of the thread.....
and this is effect vs. effect though.
It's Mangekyo vs. Mangekyo.
Which means it is Genjutsu and the Sun vs. a Black Hole.

Itachi's is better, i've stated the reason why his is better, his is quicker, much harder to avoid and deadly.

Kakashi's is not better, he creates an implosion the size of a tennis ball, he can't aim it, can't use it as much as Itachi's and can't even control the size.

It's Mangekyo vs Mangekyo Itachi has mastered his, Kakashi hasn't.

[Kaden]

it's not a race! its effect vs. effect. both unleash their attacks at the SAME TIME!

[Raikage's left hand]

it's not a race! its effect vs. effect. both unleash their attacks at the SAME TIME!

1. Kakashi is caught in Tsukiyomi again and faints.
OR
2. Amaterasu will incinerate Kakashi.
OR
3. Itachi loses an arm or leg or Kakashi's attack misses.

An implosion attack that can't be controlled very well vs an attack that tortures the opponent for hours on end and an attack that incinerates everything in sight, you tell me that Kakashi's Mangekyo is better than Itachi's when he can barely even use his.

[Kaden]

he used it to some degree. he caught deidra's final blast with it in sippuden

[majinsharingan]

About time you guys saw the light.

Are you telling us to die?

[Shishi Uchiha]

Are you telling us to die?

hehehehehe:D

idk cause to me kakashis would be most effective to amaterasu cause if itachi used amaterasu then kakashi would use his mangekyo(does it have a name by the way?)
but then again his takes more time
but also i dont think kakashi would be able to dodge tsukiyomi.....or can he?:confused:

[sHaDuP PaYmE]

kakshi wins cuz itach is blind

[hunterbishop]

My two very fav characters have the Mangekyou sharingan, but, which one is better..kinda tough to decide for me..they both do different things..Itachi's is more mental will Kakashi's is physical..I know for sure I like Kakashi's MS design better..hmm..what do you guys/gals think?

kakashi wins by a long run

[aarthans]

kakashi wins by a long run

lol.

[Kaden]

fights effect vs affect. kakashi wins

[Masterofdeath]

Itachi's is best but only because Kishi makes him uber strong.

[majinsharingan]

Itachi's is best but only because Kishi makes him uber strong.

No his isn't.
Black Hole>Everything.
Kakashi is the best because Reality makes him uber strong.

[Kaden]

once again this is fight is effect vs effect. black hole sends anything to wherever black holes end

[Kenny_-_emo]

kakashi cause he has lightning blade and he didnt use that move on itachi it wouldve killed him

[Naruto_Uchiha]

true but if kakashi had more chakra and more control of his mangekyo sharingan then kakashis wold be more dangerous

ya IF kakashi had more chakara. but he doesn't. he hasn't even mastered his mangenkyou fully yet. itachi wins. hands down

[junki]

In my opinion I think it's Itachi because he is originally from uchiha clan.

[majinsharingan]

In my opinion I think it's Itachi because he is originally from uchiha clan.

Doesn't matter.
Black Hole still pwns all.
Although depending on what Susano is Itachi may win.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

if onLy the manga was in coLour, i might have an idea what susanoo is !

[linksmolecules]

So how did kakashi gain his special sharingon?

[Dr. Lecter]

from the death of obito......
if u think outside of the box kakashi was responsible for the death of obito which is just like killing ur best friend
if u reread the kakashi chronicles kakashi even said tht if he abandoned the ninja rules obito would still be alive

[Kaden]

from the death of obito......
if u think outside of the box kakashi was responsible for the death of obito which is just like killing ur best friend
if u reread the kakashi chronicles kakashi even said tht if he abandoned the ninja rules obito would still be alive

he's not responsible for obito's death. obito died saving kakashi. he didn't have to push him out of the way...

[Dr. Lecter]

no u hav to reread the manga trust me u will understand it if u take in everything there saying.....
direct quote:If I'd only come with you from the start, like you told me to this never would have happened!

[graceluvsnaruto]

haha very true..if kakashi was closing his right eye, and had his Mangekyou sharingan in his left..itachi couldn't do anything to him..so basically all kakashi needs to do is..learn to control his MS better..and be at full capacity to beat Itachi..

heheh agreed I think kakashi's mangekyou is much better than itachi's. Kakashi can suck things into another dimension!!! I know that Itachi's mangekyou is very strong...the genjutsu is powerful. However, I'd say that Kakashi could probably defeat Itachi.

[Kyuubi.]

I would say Kakashi's mangekyou is better because itachi is blind by now cause he used his mangekyou too much. Kakashi just has to aim correctly

[...]

I'll go for Itachi cause he has more experience with the sharigan n when he makes seals with his hands hes so quick n dont forget that he can use the Tsukyomi n the Amaterasu

[Masterofdeath]

Kakashi's is better... he isn't affected by tskuyomi because he has mangekyou, he can send amateretsu to another dimension, and susanoo has not been fully defined in terms of power. Black hole is merely too powerful. It cannot be stopped. Just look at Deidara's face when he saw it... classic!

[Konohamaru]

it so easy for itachi win so it itachi mangekyou eyes are the best

[unknowndemon]

Kakashi's is better... he isn't affected by tskuyomi because he has mangekyou, he can send amateretsu to another dimension, and susanoo has not been fully defined in terms of power. Black hole is merely too powerful. It cannot be stopped. Just look at Deidara's face when he saw it... classic!

look at it from different terms kakashi's eeye takes time to unleash these techniques while itachi's can unleash it at a moments notice.

[majinsharingan]

Again, this isn't in a battle, it's one sharingan vs. another.
Effect vs. Effect.
And Itachi's can't even be compared to Kakashi's.

[Masterofdeath]

exactly

[majinsharingan]

Did you just agree with me?
Whoa...weird....

[Raikage's left hand]

Again, this isn't in a battle, it's one sharingan vs. another.
Effect vs. Effect.
And Itachi's can't even be compared to Kakashi's.

An Itachi's Mangekyo is far ahead of Kakashi's, he has 3 different attacks, doesn't take a long time to use and has a less likely chance of missing his attacks.

[gheorghecoser]

Itachi's is more useful than Kakashi's although poth are very powerful.

Itachi's only requires eye contact to work, kakashi's requires him to lock on his target for a while.
I agree.
523

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

I KNOW SOMEONE THAT CAN BEAT THE BLACKHOLE ! weLL TWO ACTUALLY ! ! !

[Teh Bomb Bijuu]

I KNOW SOMEONE THAT CAN BEAT THE BLACKHOLE ! weLL TWO ACTUALLY ! ! !

WhO I WanNa kNow

[majinsharingan]

An Itachi's Mangekyo is far ahead of Kakashi's, he has 3 different attacks, doesn't take a long time to use and has a less likely chance of missing his attacks.

Okay, is one of them a black hole?

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

WhO I WanNa kNow

MADARA AND SHISUI ! ! !

you can't dispute it ! they can easiLy get out of the bLackhoLe ! meaning the bLackhoLe does not pawn aLL ! ! !

[majinsharingan]

MADARA AND SHISUI ! ! !

you can't dispute it ! they can easiLy get out of the bLackhoLe ! meaning the bLackhoLe does not pawn aLL ! ! !

Shishi?
You're wrong.
I'm sorry but that doesn't even call for clarification, he's never had an appearance longer than a few seconds, you don't know anything about him.

And Tobi can't either.
Nothing can escape a black hole.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

BODY FLICKER ! ! !

SPACE/ TIME MANIPULATION ! ! !

they beat kakashi's bLackhoLe !

[majinsharingan]

BODY FLICKER ! ! !

SPACE/ TIME MANIPULATION ! ! !

they beat kakashi's bLackhoLe !

Every Ninja knows body flicker.

And that doesn't make any bit of difference, nothing can escape a black hole.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

does kakashi get increased range of vision when he uses that vortaL jutsu ?

[FmAkilla]

itachi

[FmAkilla]

itachi

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

^^ weLcome to TN !

you seem very.....uHHHHHHH...... Lost !

first of aLL you can't doubLe post (or quad post for that matter)

and you put a pic of deidara randomLy !:itachi: that's itachi !

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

someone could find a way to escape the black whole i mean didn't
tobi find a way to escape amaterseru and so did sasuke in a lesser way.. it seems kind of hard to escape something that burns anything compltley to a crisp the second it touches you

..People find ways to escape unavoidable things such as
sasuke's kirin.. that unavoidable but itachi escaped it.. it doesn't matter how he escaped it but he still did.

[HyuugaHanabi]

Itachi's sharingan would win! he knows what to do with it and he's a true uchiha.

[duckofdoom99]

someone could find a way to escape the black whole i mean didn'ttobi find a way to escape amaterseru and so did sasuke in a lesser way.. it seems kind of hard to escape something that burns anything compltley to a crisp the second it touches you
Umm going to another dimension is much different than being set on fire. You can avoid fire. You can't really get out of another dimension.


..People find ways to escape unavoidable things such as His attack isn't unavoidable. You could avoid it, deidara kind of did. It only hit his arms instead of his body the first 2 times. Also itachi didn't really escape he blocked it.

Itachi's sharingan would win! he knows what to do with it and he's a true uchiha.Kakashi knows what he is doing with his sharingan. Being a true uchiha has nothing to do with the effect of the abilities.

[Masterofdeath]

Kakashi can unleash Mangekyou in a few seconds. That is no longer in this discussion. Black hole is unavoidable once it has locked something within it. Unless your entire body is trapped then you could use a time space jutsu. However, with a body part trapped you are screwed because you can't transport only one part of your body.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Itachis for sure. Sasuno, tsukiyomi and amateratsu would destroy Kakashi

[ItachiRules]

exactly kakashi cant controll it as well but itachi could do the gunjutsu kakashi doesnt do that

[Butter]

itachis because his ms is more advanced

[Evan Bourne]

i agree with all of you itachi has a more advanced mangekyou sharingan

[linksmolecules]

Although I think Kakashi learned alot from last time he fought Itachi; he would still end up loosing.

['-'Jiraiya-Sama'-']

Itachi has both his eyes sharingans, but kakashi has only one.So does that mean that Itachi could somehow copy kakashi's MS's Blackhole, and do it with his both, ORIGINAL eyes.

But, let's not forgot that as genjutsu, Itachi's speciality, cannot do physichally anything, without a guy who would beat him kakashi out when itachi is using genjutsu, Itachi is only taking off Kakashi's(and everyone else's) battle spirit.

But Battle spirit is very important part of fighting. without battle spirit, Kakashi would just be useless, normal Elite ninja with MS.


i'd like to let this question wide open. It is so bad for me to decide!

[0ba]

Itachi has both his eyes sharingans, but kakashi has only one.So does that mean that Itachi could somehow copy kakashi's MS's Blackhole, and do it with his both, ORIGINAL eyes.Left eye's for ninjutsu, right for genjutsu, so no, it can't be copied even with his two eyes.

But, let's not forgot that as genjutsu, Itachi's speciality, cannot do physichally anything, without a guy who would beat him kakashi out when itachi is using genjutsu, Itachi is only taking off Kakashi's(and everyone else's) battle spirit.Tsukuyomi put Kakashi in the hospital once, remember?

Since it's 'effect v effect', I say Kakashi takes this, then.

[KyubiiRage]

I would say Kakashis is the most powerfulest couse he has a black hole and nothing can beat a black hole.I mean Kakashi can transport bo Susanoo and Amatetsuru away.And he wont have to look into Tsukiyomi.

[D.I.Y Death]

In terms of which is more powerful kakashi's ms is far more powerful. In terms of skill Itachi's ms wins because he's mastered it.

[X-Drake]

I Say Itachi. We do not know what susano'o is, so we cannot say if Kamiu will work against it. Plus the shield refelcts all jutsus and attacks with its magic power, so It could stop the Kamiu.

Itachi's put less strain on him but blindness. Kakishi's renders him useless for 2 or more weeks and blindness.

[linksmolecules]

Itachi because he has more stamina than Kakashi and can probably use his ms more than Kakashi could.

[MinatoNamikaze]

Id say Itachi. FOr now he has more jutsu, and the most powerful genjutsu, tied for first of top ninjutsu, and sasuno. Ofcourse thats not to take away from kakashis MS AT ALL. His black hole is such an incredible threat, it puts everyone in danger.

[WhiteFang]

I Say Itachi. We do not know what susano'o is, so we cannot say if Kamiu will work against it. Plus the shield refelcts all jutsus and attacks with its magic power, so It could stop the Kamiu.

Itachi's put less strain on him but blindness. Kakishi's renders him useless for 2 or more weeks and blindness.

Ahem. SUBBED section.

Id say Itachi. FOr now he has more jutsu, and the most powerful genjutsu, tied for first of top ninjutsu, and sasuno. Ofcourse thats not to take away from kakashis MS AT ALL. His black hole is such an incredible threat, it puts everyone in danger.
Same as above. Subbed section, refrain from spoilers. And in subbed, Itachi has Tsukuyomi and Kakashi has Kamui.


In terms of the techs itself, i.e. Tsukuyomi and Kamui, I definitely say Kamui and stick with Kakashi on this one.
However, if we talk of mastery, I'd go with Itachi. Seeing that his tech. just needs an instant whereas Kakashi's needs more time.

[colt45]

it is hard to say kakashi has 2 have a lot of chakra 2 kill itachi so it is hard but it will be a heck of a battle

[Nikushimi]

Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan is shit compared to Itachi's, it drains him even more and despite Kamui's apparent hax it's actually pretty weak and it has been resisted and even dodged before by Deidara who physically is not anywhere near top-tier. Itachi has Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu (based on the subbed), and both seem a lot more hax than Kamui. In fact Kakashi himself admitted he was inferior to Itachi and couldn't handle him alone when fighting the Shouten.

And, the Uchiha Kekkei Genkai would make Itachi's Sharingan/Mangekyou Sharingan more powerful.

[taiyana_chan]

Itachi's sharigan would murderlize Kakashi's. Itachi actually has the kekkei genai, so it's way more powerful that Kakashi's.

[Hauclir]

Pfft, Kakashi's..hands down.. The only reason he took so long with Deidara was because they were both moving quickly..When he removed the explosion it was nearly instantaneous.

[caleb08]

In terms of power, I would say Kakashi's.
Itachi has mastered it and so as Kakashi in a sence.
Of course it is going to effect him, it even effects Itachi.
But the only reason as to how Diedara got out of it alive was because Kakashi closed his eyes because of the pain.
But if he had not closed his eyes, Diedara would have been killed.
There is no way to dodge a black hole that forms inside of you.

[MinatoNamikaze]

In terms of power, I would say Kakashi's.
Itachi has mastered it and so as Kakashi in a sence.
Of course it is going to effect him, it even effects Itachi.
But the only reason as to how Diedara got out of it alive was because Kakashi closed his eyes because of the pain.
But if he had not closed his eyes, Diedara would have been killed.
There is no way to dodge a black hole that forms inside of you.

uuuh the black hole doesnt form inside you........ Also it can be dodged with a simple clone just as amateratsu can be. Or if you have a time/space ninjutsu.

[Cliche]

I think itachis. He's an uchiha therefore he can have it activated for far longer then kakashi. I like kakashis better though...but yea. Itachis

[J3T]

well lets see itachi's has the tsukayomi, the amaterasu,and the susano while kakashi can only make things dissapear no contest right here