Battledome Idea and Suggestion Thread

[Mattus]

Eric said it's time for a change which made me want to see what everyone here thinks.
What do you want to see added/taken away/changed about the battledome?

[D.I.Y Death]

We need actual moderation in the b-dome and we need a way to force people to provide links and to address given links, because the way the b-dome is right now is retarded, even NF has a better b-dome right now and theirs is horrible.

[Mattus]

We can't force people to provide links. Stick to the usual routine of annoying persistance and ridicule. If you're having a problem with someone refusing to provide a link PM 0ba, Fang, or I and one of us will step in.

[Smiley]

I'm very curious as to where all these people who "refuse to provide links" are. Because out of like, 5 people posting in the Battledome, all of them seem more or less reasonablte to me.

[MinatoNamikaze]

I....gotta kinda agree with SMiley. I mean ppl ignore parts of posts to avvoid it but

[Mattus]

It's not so much a problem now as it used to be. I think Smiley probably remembers the days before the battledome actually had rules and mods.

[D.I.Y Death]

We can't force people to provide links. Stick to the usual routine of annoying persistance and ridicule. If you're having a problem with someone refusing to provide a link PM 0ba, Fang, or I and one of us will step in.

Sure you can, in fact its easy if the b-dome mods actually get off their asses and "le gasp" look at the section they're modding. Hand out infractions to people who don't give links to support their argument when asked to do so. You can bypass people being idiots by using personal judgement on what requires a link or not.

It just doesn't get any more simple then that and no amount of bickering is gonna change the fact that there needs to be more action and less talk regarding policy in the b-dome.

@ Smiley. I can't speak for the time I've been gone but when I perceived this to be an issue even mods weren't providing links and citing resources, which is retarded and shouldn't have happened to begin with given how much common sense is required to support an argument properly.

The B-Dome at that point needed mods to actually mod but as I said, I can't speak for the last month or two.

[Mattus]

Sure you can, in fact its easy if the b-dome mods actually get off their asses and "le gasp" look at the section they're modding. Hand out infractions to people who don't give links to support their argument when asked to do so. You can bypass people being idiots by using personal judgement on what requires a link or not.

It just doesn't get any more simple then that and no amount of bickering is gonna change the fact that there needs to be more action and less talk regarding policy in the b-dome.

Infractions for being a bad debater? Okay, then if I start right now you're banned for using shitty logic.

Come on, that's bullshit. You're just pissed at the people who don't provide links but there's nothing we can do about that without abusing our power and driving more people away. I'm not going to do that.


@ Smiley. I can't speak for the time I've been gone but when I perceived this to be an issue even mods weren't providing links and citing resources, which is retarded and shouldn't have happened to begin with given how much common sense is required to support an argument properly.

The B-Dome at that point needed mods to actually mod but as I said, I can't speak for the last month or two.

Just because there is nothing to be modded doesn't mean there HAS to be.

[D.I.Y Death]

Infractions for being a bad debater? Okay, then if I start right now you're banned for using shitty logic.

Come on, that's bullshit. You're just pissed at the people who don't provide links but there's nothing we can do about that without abusing our power and driving more people away. I'm not going to do that.



Just because there is nothing to be modded doesn't mean there HAS to be.

Matt, you're really disappointing me. You need someone around to keep you sharp because you're starting to dull.
Just because there's a lack of things to mod doesn't mean you shouldn't mod at all and while handing out infractions for not supporting arguments seems a little harsh it really isn't if you pm them and tell them to provide links. Most b-domes have this issue, where people refuse to provide links and it screws with the integrity of their respective b-dome sections. What I propose is to force people to debate properly or don't debate at all.

Also, you don't have the right to talk about driving people away, you were one of the members burring your head in the sand when members like me were pointing out that the activity was going to hell because of major issues. Now you need to practically start fresh because TN has essentially died and is living off of the mild amusement the senior members get from nostalgia of TN's glory days.

Less chat and more action Matt, pass the message to the entire mod panel.

[Mattus]

Just because there's a lack of things to mod doesn't mean you shouldn't mod at all and while handing out infractions for not supporting arguments seems a little harsh it really isn't if you pm them and tell them to provide links. Most b-domes have this issue, where people refuse to provide links and it screws with the integrity of their respective b-dome sections. What I propose is to force people to debate properly or don't debate at all.

Absolutely not. You're banned. I'm banned. Drake's banned. Etc...etc...Cause let's face it, we don't debate properly either.
Secondly, if they are continuously asked to post links, refuse, and use the same point I will delete their post and if they continue I'll give them a warning infraction. Nothing more.


Also, you don't have the right to talk about driving people away, you were one of the members burring your head in the sand when members like me were pointing out that the activity was going to hell because of major issues. Now you need to practically start fresh because TN has essentially died and is living off of the mild amusement the senior members get from nostalgia of TN's glory days.

I don't recall that but okay.


Less chat and more action Matt, pass the message to the entire mod panel.

I would but it's not worth mentioning. If there is a problem like this the other mods have their own way of working it out.

[D.I.Y Death]

Absolutely not. You're banned. I'm banned. Drake's banned. Etc...etc...Cause let's face it, we don't debate properly either.
Secondly, if they are continuously asked to post links, refuse, and use the same point I will delete their post and if they continue I'll give them a warning infraction. Nothing more.

We have all done it in the past but that's not an excuse to not learn from our mistakes and correct it, thus enforcing good habits for new members.




I don't recall that but okay.


I'm surprised, there was a HUGE fuss over that entire period of time.



I would but it's not worth mentioning. If there is a problem like this the other mods have their own way of working it out.

Which reflects that there needs to be more centralized leadership, I can speak from personal experience since I was a mod and saw every thread in the mod area dating back to when I wasn't even aware of Naruto.
TN is like a senate and unfortunately the city is crumbling because there was too much talk about issues and not enough mods pushing for resolution when it could have been fixed. Why do you think I'm almost never on? I'm tired of this bureaucratic nightmare known as TN's mod panel.

I could suggest ways to fix and reorganize TN to be efficient but it would probably be debated until the only users left are the ones bickering.

[Mattus]

Which reflects that there needs to be more centralized leadership, I can speak from personal experience since I was a mod and saw every thread in the mod area dating back to when I wasn't even aware of Naruto.
TN is like a senate and unfortunately the city is crumbling because there was too much talk about issues and not enough mods pushing for resolution when it could have been fixed. Why do you think I'm almost never on? I'm tired of this bureaucratic nightmare known as TN's mod panel.

I could suggest ways to fix and reorganize TN to be efficient but it would probably be debated until the only users left are the ones bickering.

That's a good thing. Things are talked about and agreed upon instead of just done without asking for anyone's opinion.

[WhiteFang]

Just because there's a lack of things to mod doesn't mean you shouldn't mod at all and while handing out infractions for not supporting arguments seems a little harsh it really isn't if you pm them and tell them to provide links. Most b-domes have this issue, where people refuse to provide links and it screws with the integrity of their respective b-dome sections. What I propose is to force people to debate properly or don't debate at all.

Also, you don't have the right to talk about driving people away, you were one of the members burring your head in the sand when members like me were pointing out that the activity was going to hell because of major issues. Now you need to practically start fresh because TN has essentially died and is living off of the mild amusement the senior members get from nostalgia of TN's glory days.

Less chat and more action Matt, pass the message to the entire mod panel.
You see, the thing is, Eric, as much as we'd like to go ahead and do what you're saying; it isn't that simple to execute.

Lets just have a look at the case of Yakushi Kabuto - an annoying prick who didn't provide links and refused to reply logically most of the time and settle with "Haters gonna hate". We cracked down on her and that basically resulted in her leaving the forum. A good point to note is that whilst she had been there, the Bookstore had been substantially more active as compared to before due to the storm her threads caused. Same reason when Nikushimi was around, the Battledome buzzed with activity: it is because of outrageous claims and controversy that places like the B-dome and Bookstore thrive.

So what do you suggest we do?
Correctness in a debate related to fictional manga has a lot to do with perspective. Clamping down on someone because they're not thinking like the majority (until and unless there's like 10 people in thread saying otherwise with links - we have a rule for that and have used it, too) is infact power-abuse.
If we put quality control on the debating we have, it will surely greatly improve the environment, but also further decrease activity.
All in all it needs to be a good blend of freedom and rules. We curtail someone when they're obviously beginning to annoy, irritate and diminish the sanctity of the debate by their rabid fan-boy/girl-ism devoid of logic. If people are just being a little stubborn, making unfounded extrapolations here and there and it's getting heated: learn to deal with it. The B-dome is a place where you have to take some heat.


We have all done it in the past but that's not an excuse to not learn from our mistakes and correct it, thus enforcing good habits for new members.
Not trying to sound mean, but, seeing today's crop: they'd rather leave to a place where they can spew whatever comes to mind rather than make an effort to improve and try to be logical.


I could suggest ways to fix and reorganize TN to be efficient but it would probably be debated until the only users left are the ones bickering.
Why do you assume this? And why do you think that scrutinizing an idea and discussing it are bad things? If we don't do that, we'll be authoritarian dictators, no?
The time factor I understand and acknowledge. We admit we can be faster. But you must understand it isn't entirely our fault: there's iEntry who're incharge and have control over a lot of things. We need to route through a lot of things through them, first, instead of going ahead and fixing it ourselves - we don't have the powers.

[X-Drake]

Lets just have a look at the case of Yakushi Kabuto - an annoying prick who didn't provide links and refused to reply logically most of the time and settle with "Haters gonna hate".

Hey, mind your language..She had valid points and look back on that thread, your arguements where completely weak when put against her...Hers lacked a few stuff but had more basis that yours...SO while neither of you hit the nail on the head, she had more evidence and a better argument. You just got a hatred. And she's right, haters gone hate...Yet your cursing her of, when you don't know her, she isn't here to say anything and your being bitchy...

Their no need to curse someone, so leave it...

____________________________________________

Putting that aside, the need for providing evidence could be played out of hand...I could feel like trolling and say "Rule #20 says provide a link for your claims, where the link that says his name is this 'Uzumaki' you speak of"

Certain things are common knowledge and me, personally I hate providing links...Cause the time it takes to look for it is irritating...only to prove the person that I am write..And even with evidence, people would still argue, like "yondaime never used Hiraishin to get the Iwa shinobi....."
Or quoting white fang (not to be attack you or anything, just proving a point)

Uh-uh.
What I gather is that the Third was trying to say: "Idiot, don't include the past. Stick to the present." He was implying the Shodai/Niidaime were infact stronger than him. He was probably >= Minato.

FOr this link
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1402/12qk1.jpg
when Sandaime said for Iruka not to speak in past tense

______________

Evidence helps, but its long to look for it and even when posted, people tend to argue about things clear as day

[Mattus]

Hey, mind your language..She had valid points and look back on that thread, your arguements where completely weak when put against her...Hers lacked a few stuff but had more basis that yours...SO while neither of you hit the nail on the head, she had more evidence and a better argument. You just got a hatred. And she's right, haters gone hate...Yet your cursing her of, when you don't know her, she isn't here to say anything and your being bitchy...

Their no need to curse someone, so leave it...

I would leave it but there's also no reason to defend someone like that. Fang is absolutely right. Her arguments failed. Every single one of them continuously failed until all she could say was "haters gonna hate" and block everyone out. She was a shit excuse for a debater and I normally don't say that but anyone who throws a fit and blocks anyone who doesn't agree with her does not deserve her name to be mentioned in the same site as Fang.

[X-Drake]

I would leave it but there's also no reason to defend someone like that. Fang is absolutely right. Her arguments failed. Every single one of them continuously failed until all she could say was "haters gonna hate" and block everyone out. She was a shit excuse for a debater and I normally don't say that but anyone who throws a fit and blocks anyone who doesn't agree with her does not deserve her name to be mentioned in the same site as Fang.

I know http://teamfly.co.uk/forums/images/ranks/CookieMonster.gif

I just felt to defend someone who cannot defend themselve's...its like stopping a bully lol jk


If I remember right, both you and DIY blocked me before....And you blocked Muffin and others...So you can't complain about her blocking people...http://teamfly.co.uk/forums/images/ranks/CookieMonster.gif


I have never blocked anyone...I just don't respond...

[Mattus]

I know http://teamfly.co.uk/forums/images/ranks/CookieMonster.gif

I just felt to defend someone who cannot defend themselve's...its like stopping a bully lol jk


If I remember right, both you and DIY blocked me before....And you blocked Muffin and others...So you can't complain about her blocking people...http://teamfly.co.uk/forums/images/ranks/CookieMonster.gif


I have never blocked anyone...I just don't respond...

Difference. I blocked you and Muffin because you were being annoying and I was tired of pointless fighting, not because of debating.

[X-Drake]

If I remember correctly, you were being annoying and opposed everything I said, Ignorance for the sake of it...most of which came true as I showed you in the PM...And you were writing your opinions into the manga (Tsunadi's gonna die next, ect)...Then it got into an arugement...............But the past is long and gone and doesn't matter..

[Dreamer]

We can't be extremist in the BD. If someone isn't providing links you call them out on it, period. You don't give out infractions for that. If you want to make your point provide the link, but if it's stuff that is common knowledge then it isn't necessary. Like Drake said, providing links for every little thing is annoying, not to mention unattractive for new members.

If the person chooses not to back up their claims, so be it. They are simply not credible, but to limit them saying "you need links or else" is ridiculous.

I do agree that things are a bit slow when it come to an overall consensus of a new idea or action that has to be taken (being discussed in here (http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?19742-There-s-weight-in-some-of-Eric-s-claims...)).

[X-Drake]

We can't be extremist in the BD. If someone isn't providing links you call them out on it, period. You don't give out infractions for that. If you want to make your point provide the link, but if it's stuff that is common knowledge then it isn't necessary. Like Drake said, providing links for every little thing is annoying, not to mention unattractive for new members.

If the person chooses not to back up their claims, so be it. They are simply not credible, but to limit them saying "you need links or else" is ridiculous.

I do agree that things are a bit slow when it come to an overall consensus of a new idea or action that has to be taken (being discussed in here (http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?19742-There-s-weight-in-some-of-Eric-s-claims...)).

Couldn't have said it better myself, mainly cause I hate persuasive writing and I get to the point, rather than making it sound better...xD

[WhiteFang]

Hey, mind your language..She had valid points and look back on that thread, your arguements where completely weak when put against her...Hers lacked a few stuff but had more basis that yours...SO while neither of you hit the nail on the head, she had more evidence and a better argument. You just got a hatred. And she's right, haters gone hate...Yet your cursing her of, when you don't know her, she isn't here to say anything and your being bitchy...

Their no need to curse someone, so leave it...

____________________________________________
So.. I called her a prick. Big curse word, eh? Besides, if you see it in the context I was saying it, I was going for the "stupid" implication there; and in all honesty, having that perspective of her is strictly my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I never claimed it was a fact set in stone, so what are you going on about here?
I'll just say this: it is indisputably incredibly irritating and irrelevant to hear this from someone with a track-record like yours. So I will simply ignore you and your distinctly biased opinion on the issue from now on. :)


We can't be extremist in the BD. If someone isn't providing links you call them out on it, period. You don't give out infractions for that. If you want to make your point provide the link, but if it's stuff that is common knowledge then it isn't necessary. Like Drake said, providing links for every little thing is annoying, not to mention unattractive for new members.

If the person chooses not to back up their claims, so be it. They are simply not credible, but to limit them saying "you need links or else" is ridiculous.

I do agree that things are a bit slow when it come to an overall consensus of a new idea or action that has to be taken (being discussed in here (http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?19742-There-s-weight-in-some-of-Eric-s-claims...)).

Thankyou Dreamer. You pretty much conveyed what I was trying to put across in much lesser words.

Btw, regular members can't see that link. xD

@Matt: I was busy replying elsewhere. So thanks, too. :hug: ILU!

[X-Drake]

So.. I called her a prick. Big curse word, eh? Besides, if you see it in the context I was saying it, I was going for the "stupid" implication there; and in all honesty, having that perspective of her is strictly my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I never claimed it was a fact set in stone, so what are you going on about here?
I'll just say this: it is indisputably incredibly irritating and irrelevant to hear this from someone with a track-record like yours. So I will simply ignore you and your distinctly biased opinion on the issue from now on. :)

lol...track records mean jack shit...thats like saying its wrong to murder, but if a murder is telling some one else not to murder then that person can dismiss them based upon their "track"..Wrong...It may be hypocritical but its still right...And On a last note people can change, only people like you hold people's past...If I was how I was before, me and mat would still be arguing and cursing...me and DIY would be, I'll still be getting infractions..etc..but I ain't....

And no a Prick is not a "Big curse word", all I said was "mind your language" and "your cursing her of" which is correct, since you used a curse-word and thats foul language thus me saying, "mind your language"...Even my 3yo cousin could understand that...But I guess people like you would not understand, would It helped if I spoke Hindi or whatever language you speak...Google has a pretty good translator...

Heh...Ignore me...I don't mind...

[D.I.Y Death]

You see, the thing is, Eric, as much as we'd like to go ahead and do what you're saying; it isn't that simple to execute.

Lets just have a look at the case of Yakushi Kabuto - an annoying prick who didn't provide links and refused to reply logically most of the time and settle with "Haters gonna hate". We cracked down on her and that basically resulted in her leaving the forum. A good point to note is that whilst she had been there, the Bookstore had been substantially more active as compared to before due to the storm her threads caused. Same reason when Nikushimi was around, the Battledome buzzed with activity: it is because of outrageous claims and controversy that places like the B-dome and Bookstore thrive.

So you'd let trolls run around causing malcontent and inspiring hate because it encourages growth? That's not good growth.



So what do you suggest we do?
Correctness in a debate related to fictional manga has a lot to do with perspective. Clamping down on someone because they're not thinking like the majority (until and unless there's like 10 people in thread saying otherwise with links - we have a rule for that and have used it, too) is infact power-abuse.
If we put quality control on the debating we have, it will surely greatly improve the environment, but also further decrease activity.
All in all it needs to be a good blend of freedom and rules. We curtail someone when they're obviously beginning to annoy, irritate and diminish the sanctity of the debate by their rabid fan-boy/girl-ism devoid of logic. If people are just being a little stubborn, making unfounded extrapolations here and there and it's getting heated: learn to deal with it. The B-dome is a place where you have to take some heat.

Clamping down on people for independent thought wasn't what I was saying. I thought I made that very, very clear. Clamping down on people who purposely abuse the oversights in the b-dome rules is what should happen.




Not trying to sound mean, but, seeing today's crop: they'd rather leave to a place where they can spew whatever comes to mind rather than make an effort to improve and try to be logical.


That's a testament to TN's failure to act quick enough to save the good apples and now all you have left is the rotten ones. You need trim the bush to encourage new growth.



Why do you assume this? And why do you think that scrutinizing an idea and discussing it are bad things? If we don't do that, we'll be authoritarian dictators, no?

Again, you took my words out of context. I said there was too much indecisiveness, talking is good and all but it isn't when the mod panel is so divided that nothing ever gets done. This is why a senate simply doesn't work.



The time factor I understand and acknowledge. We admit we can be faster. But you must understand it isn't entirely our fault: there's iEntry who're incharge and have control over a lot of things. We need to route through a lot of things through them, first, instead of going ahead and fixing it ourselves - we don't have the powers.

If you made the mod section public I could quote dozens of times where IEntry wasn't to blame for slow action. It's not a single person's fault in the mod panel but the entire mod panel's fault for not hammering through issues that needed addressing asap.

A good example is Niku, back in the day he was by far the worst member this forum has ever seen. He was caught breaking just about every rule that existed and guess what happened? the equivalent to nothing. He never learned his lesson and eventually just stopped coming here for reasons I could speculate about but would never know for sure.

All of you tried to make an omelette without cracking a few eggs and now you have a warped frying pan and a bunch of rotten food.

Another way of wording this is to compare mod panels to government, because that is exactly what you're doing, governing a body of individuals.

This may seem overly hostile but absolutely none of you have learned from this experience and in some ways you've reverted. Time for change, no?

[WhiteFang]

So you'd let trolls run around causing malcontent and inspiring hate because it encourages growth? That's not good growth.
No. I said it's not what we do. Which is why we didn't budge when she created a "blackmail" thread.
Check it out:
http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?19380-Thread-deleted


Clamping down on people for independent thought wasn't what I was saying. I thought I made that very, very clear. Clamping down on people who purposely abuse the oversights in the b-dome rules is what should happen.
It does happen, Eric. We've locked extremely one sided threads before, and I need specific example from you to know what exactly you're talking about.


That's a testament to TN's failure to act quick enough to save the good apples and now all you have left is the rotten ones. You need trim the bush to encourage new growth.
The good apples probably left because the debates died; there wasn't much participation at a point because a large number of juicy battles had already been discussed so many times. I've taken outside opinion and many people feel that the BD is rather harsh and are afraid to post there.


Again, you took my words out of context. I said there was too much indecisiveness, talking is good and all but it isn't when the mod panel is so divided that nothing ever gets done. This is why a senate simply doesn't work.

If you made the mod section public I could quote dozens of times where IEntry wasn't to blame for slow action. It's not a single person's fault in the mod panel but the entire mod panel's fault for not hammering through issues that needed addressing asap.
Quote specific examples off of your memory, if you will, because making the mod panel public is out of the question for more than one reason. I do not recall any such issues on which we were so overwhelmingly undecided that nothing got done at all. There were times when we were slow, something I've already admitted; but urgent issues were/are tended to swiftly. Long term changes take time.


A good example is Niku, back in the day he was by far the worst member this forum has ever seen. He was caught breaking just about every rule that existed and guess what happened? the equivalent to nothing. He never learned his lesson and eventually just stopped coming here for reasons I could speculate about but would never know for sure.
Now this isn't entirely correct.
Nikushimi came on as an extremely unruly member, this is true; however, there was no denying his quality debating skills. A single one against many, he did very well. He was stubborn as hell and maybe even wrong sometimes, but he put life into the battledome. And you cannot say we didn't take action on him because he got infracted several times and even served temporary bans. And that did infact lead him to improve some of his ways.

As for why he stopped coming, you needn't speculate:
http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?15325-The-Official-TN-Battledome-News-Thread.&p=1007153&viewfull=1#post1007153


All of you tried to make an omelette without cracking a few eggs and now you have a warped frying pan and a bunch of rotten food.

Another way of wording this is to compare mod panels to government, because that is exactly what you're doing, governing a body of individuals.

This may seem overly hostile but absolutely none of you have learned from this experience and in some ways you've reverted. Time for change, no?
I know what you're saying, trust me, I do. And it is my every intention to work out said "change". However, this change needs to be spelled out a little more. What exactly do you want happening?

As far as I know you'd wanted this:
http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?19548-B-Dome-needs-some-updated-rules/

And as you can see, there was already some disagreement amongst the members in that thread regarding your demand.


That rule can be easily abused. Someone can just request pointless links just to tire the opponent and distract from the main debate.

This has actually happened before here. (cough cough)


I don't agree with any of the rules suggested so far. Smiley covered Eric's. As for this;

No, definitely not.

That means one person has the power to say who's right. If it's made official and we don't concede to said person's judgment, we're technically breaking the rules, which makes the point of debating redundant.

If the someone in a debate is so obviously wrong, generally everyone will agree with your side anyway, which makes it fairly clear that you're correct. When debates like that continue on for too long, a mod usually locks the thread anyway.


Well if things get completely horrid and one person is dismissing points when u ask for a vavlid link, there should be concequences. But idk, i see DIY's point, and i agre, but implementing that rule is tough

Now I can't just go ahead and implement that rule change for mine and yours sake, isn't it?

But I since I see what you're saying, we could work out something else which is more effective than what we have currently yet less rigid than what you are suggesting.

The simplest approach imo is that the aggrieved party should PM a moderator. If they think their opponent is just being annoyingly dodgy, they should go ahead and just PM and then a reasonable judgment can be made with the help of both the staff and the debaters involved.

[D.I.Y Death]

I posted something here, shitty reply button erased it all. I could list examples again but they're not hard to find or remember and the point is being reinforced by too much talk and not enough action.

I'm pushing for a total revamp of the b-dome rules because they're short sighted. I'm not pushing for any rules I may or may not come up with to replace the said rules. Matt alone could do that.

[Mattus]

Matt alone could do that but Matt alone won't because Matt alone will get in trouble for not consulting the other mods and doing it alone. xD I'll talk with the other BD mods though.

[D.I.Y Death]

Good luck on getting everyone agreeing on new rules though.
IMO why aren't the b-dome mods and the admins only involved in this process? You don't need rpg mods or even global mods for a section they generally don't patrol.

[Mattus]

The only people whose opinion I wait for is Dreamer and Fang. 0ba isn't around enough for me to wait for his opinion on things. Stacy and Adam also help out with the battledome so I listen to their opinions but when it comes down to decision making Dreamer, Fang, Ryan, Mika, and admin, are the only people I'll really listen to if they tell me not to do something regarding the battledome.

[D.I.Y Death]

Fair enough, back when I was mod and tried to apply changes all I got was a whole lot of crying from people who never bothered with the b-dome so there's some stigma there.

[Mattus]

Fair enough, back when I was mod and tried to apply changes all I got was a whole lot of crying from people who never bothered with the b-dome so there's some stigma there.

Eh, I don't think that'll be the case now. We're working on revisions of the TN rules.

[Mattus]

1. No throwing a tantrum because no one agrees with you

2. No throwing a tantrum because you do not agree with someone

3. No name calling of any bad or demeaning kind (idiot, punk, stupid, to name a few)
(I understand getting mildly irritated but if you get angry, mad, p***ed off then go take a break, if someone attacks you do not retaliate, just report them and they will be dealt with as soon as a moderator signs on. DO NOT FIGHT AND ARGUE WITH THEM. Then you both will be in trouble. Anyone disrupting the forums will have corrective action taken against them. You can debate intelligently without name calling and getting ticked off. Life is short, let it go.)

These will get you banned from the Battledome and any other part of a debate forum like Global Central.

4. No crazed fan fanatics

5. No one sentence post. (ex. Sasuke will win. or... Sasuke will win because he is my favorite)

6. No bringing in abilities that were in filler episodes, movies, or video games. If it happened in the manga then it is fair game.

7. No being unreasonable. If 10 people confirm that something is or is not true do not be a pain in the neck and keep holding on to your answer. If you still disagree then keep it to yourself UNLESS you have undeniable proof that you can paste a link to the source of the truth.

8. No posting rumors that you can not back up. If you heard it from a person, that is unreliable. Theories are fine but before you start calling a rumor fact there better be a link following your factual information, especially if you are saying it was something Masashi Kishimoto said.

9. We have sub forums for a reason, use them the way they are laid out. No posting spoilers in the dubbed or subbed battledome forums. Manga is everything goes. If you do not want spoilers then do not go in there.

More lenient rule... More of a heads up...

10. Try not to make the same thread unless you are changing the specs of the fight. If a Sasuke vs Naruto thread already exist then use that. If you want to specify CS2 Sasuke vs 4 tailed Kyuubi Naruto then that is fine.

11. Follow the specific rules of each thread. Meaning do not add or take out any fighters.

12. Before making a thread, search "Official Thread". If your thread idea shows up, please do not make that thread anyway.

13. Any details regarding the battle need to be put in the first post of the thread.

14. Any rules that can be broken, can be enforced. Please do not complain about a mod doing something that you believe to be abuse of power. Chances are, you have not read the rules carefully enough.

15. After 24 hours or 10 posts, the opening post of a thread cannot be changed. So work all details out ahead of time.

16. All points are to be brought up and supported in a mature manner. This is not saying that comedy is not allowed in the battledome, this is drawing the line between comedy and blatant immaturity.

Databook Rules:

1. Databooks are allowed in all bookstore and battledome debates except where otherwise stated (Eg: a debate with manga evidence only will not allow databook)

2. Databooks are not canon and manga will always supercede databook entries

3. Stats are not allowed.

4. If there is anything written in multiple databooks, the newest one supersedes the older one.

I've bolded what I believe can be taken out...what about you all? What do you think of this?
What would you add or take out?

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

4=Agree
5.Covered by spam rules isn't it?

16= does seem a little superfluous, could take it or leave it
Databook= I'm against changing that rule
I don't need to say why cos everyone already knows
But if you want to change to conform with the agreement earlier then fine but Manga still superceeding needs to remain firmly in place

[Mattus]

5.Covered by spam rules isn't it?

It is, but taking it would would make it not covered. Which is what I was saying. Yeah they are unnecessary but we're the only forum I've ever been on that enforces that...it's not a good idea for "business"(for lack of better word).


Databook= I'm against changing that rule
I don't need to say why cos everyone already knows
But if you want to change to conform with the agreement earlier then fine but Manga still superceeding needs to remain firmly in place

It really doesn't matter. Not like anyone uses the databook anyway. At this point I'm for changing only to appeal to new members.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

It is, but taking it would would make it not covered. Which is what I was saying. Yeah they are unnecessary but we're the only forum I've ever been on that enforces that...it's not a good idea for "business"(for lack of better word).
Enforcd only loosely
Mostly just irrelevant posts
One sentence ones are sometimes gone but mostly as long as they are stimulating talk not really patrolled

It really doesn't matter. Not like anyone uses the databook anyway. At this point I'm for changing only to appeal to new members.
eh....either way suits

[Mattus]

Enforcd only loosely
Mostly just irrelevant posts
One sentence ones are sometimes gone but mostly as long as they are stimulating talk not really patrolled

Alright, but i still feel like taking that one out.



eh....either way suits

Eh...I think it can be revised.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

Alright, but i still feel like taking that one out.
yeah
it isn't really doing anything there
and isn't really all that necessary on the whole

[LostLegend]

Someone update me on the progress of the thread it looks like I missed a lot T.T

[Mattus]

Not really, just read the post at the top of this page and the last few posts on Page 3.

[LostLegend]

Rule 6 and databook rules 1 and 2 clash.

[Nyanki]

Yeah, you should put more clarity into rule #6.
If filler, movies, and video games are allowed/not allowed in certain areas, it should be pointed out. The rule seems set up just for the manga areas. Filler is allowed in subbed and dubbed, right?

For #13, maybe provide a link to that post that lists how to set up battles? This one: http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?17224-Please-READ-Before-Creating-a-Thread.

That, or maybe copy the form and put it underneath the rule? I just notice newbies often don't know how to set threads up.

The rest is looking good.

[MinatoNamikaze]

all good except 4 cant be enforced since it could be grossly abused

[Mattus]

Rule 6 and databook rules 1 and 2 clash.

Nah, rule 6 should stay it seems pretty valid. Unless everyone else agrees with you.
And I'm taking out the parts that clash.

---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------


Yeah, you should put more clarity into rule #6.
If filler, movies, and video games are allowed/not allowed in certain areas, it should be pointed out. The rule seems set up just for the manga areas. Filler is allowed in subbed and dubbed, right?

For #13, maybe provide a link to that post that lists how to set up battles? This one: http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?17224-Please-READ-Before-Creating-a-Thread.

That, or maybe copy the form and put it underneath the rule? I just notice newbies often don't know how to set threads up.

The rest is looking good.

Eh, I don't really know. Video games obviously are not canon. Movies generally have to be approved by the writer...although after the Airbender movie I'm not so sure about that...ANYWAY....fillers...there are a LOT of them and their purpose was to distance the anime from the manga so Kishimoto was obviously working during that time so really it's hard to say. If Kishimoto has no hand in them then no, if he did, sure.
If you could find me a page that tells us if he helped write or approve of the fillers that would be great.

[Nyanki]

Haha, you saw The Last Airbender? Oh dear God, worst $10 I ever spent.

Sure, I can look, but I was thinking more like if people made fights with filler characters or using filler stuff in the setup. And that the wording made it sound like it was a Manga-area only rule rather than applying everywhere.

Edit: Also, don't these rules extend outside of the Naruto BD and to the other ones? Because then you couldn't argue something like the first FMA where the anime totally contradicts the manga. It should be allowed if that's the battle setup.

[Mattus]

Haha, you saw The Last Airbender? Oh dear God, worst $10 I ever spent.

No I haven't xD But it was described to me.


Sure, I can look, but I was thinking more like if people made fights with filler characters or using filler stuff in the setup. And that the wording made it sound like it was a Manga-area only rule rather than applying everywhere.

For the record I did take these set of rules from the manga section. So that's probably why xD


Also, don't these rules extend outside of the Naruto BD and to the other ones? Because then you couldn't argue something like the first FMA where the anime totally contradicts the manga. It should be allowed if that's the battle setup.

...shit. I have to work on those too xD

[Nyanki]

But the rules in subbed and dubbed Naruto BD say the same stuff, as well as the rules for the other BD forums, so are you making separate rule sets, or a one-size-fits-all?

[Mattus]

I'm thinking separate.

[LostLegend]

Actually I was also saying rule 6 is weird with databook 1 and 2 when 1 and 2 clash so it makes 6 weird xD

[Mattus]

Then what do you suggest? xD

[LostLegend]

I see a clash... I just don't know how to phrase it.
Still yeah, 1 and 2 databook clash a little, just a nagging feeling on 6.

[Mattus]

I see a clash... I just don't know how to phrase it.
Still yeah, 1 and 2 databook clash a little, just a nagging feeling on 6.

Alright well I'm going to edit all three of them so hopefully what you're seeing will be fixed.

[LostLegend]

Alright well I'm going to edit all three of them so hopefully what you're seeing will be fixed.

All right then, I'll come back tomorrow.

[Mattus]

Alright, I'm gonna wait for other people's opinions.

[D.I.Y Death]

So far I like the revisions, although they don't really change the problems b-dome has, but I guess that'll come after you've cut out the useless rules. :P

[LostLegend]

Nothing new to report?

[Mattus]

Nothing really, just waiting for input from one or two other people then I'll make the changes.

Eric, what do you suggest?

[Nyanki]

I'm thinking separate.
Other than that one rule, from the looks of it, you could use the same rule set for all of them.
But yeah, that's up to you guys.

[D.I.Y Death]

Nothing really, just waiting for input from one or two other people then I'll make the changes.

Eric, what do you suggest?

Basically just revise current rules to be more simple and effective plus add in a rule that requires users to submit links where applicable.

[Raikage's left hand]

People unable to accept the databooks or fanbooks as canon should be banned. There's no point discussing canon at all if some people are just going to pick and choose what they're going to believe.

[Mattus]

^^Alright, Eric I'll add something like that to the rules.


People unable to accept the databooks or fanbooks as canon should be banned. There's no point discussing canon at all if some people are just going to pick and choose what they're going to believe.

The databooks are allowed but I'm not banning people for only believing in the story. They are canon because Kishimoto wrote them about his story, I won't deny that. But they aren't fact until they are written in the story. If that makes any sense...

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------


1. Do not throw a tantrum just because someone has a different opinion.

2. No flaming in the Battledome please. Punk, fool, and ignorant are all okay. Idiot, stupid, and fucking douche-nozzle are not.

3. Try not to make incredibly brief posts. "Itachi will win because of experience and MS." is fine although try and elaborate more than "Itachi pwns."

4. Unless you have undeniable proof, please do not be unreasonable. If several people confirm that you are wrong please do not continue unless you can prove them wrong.

5. When posting a rumor, please show the source of the rumor.

6. Please do not post fight threads in the main section of the battledome. Those are for debater and forum related threads.

7. Try not to make the same thread unless you are changing the specs of the fight. We have several "Official Threads". Before creating a thread if you could check to see if there isn't already a thread like that on this forum that would save us some work, thank you.

8. Follow the specific rules of each thread. Meaning do not take away or add any other fights or change any other details.

9. Any details regarding the battle need to be put in the opening post of the thread.

10. After 24 hours or 15 posts, the opening post of a thread cannot be changed. So work all details out ahead of time.

11. If possible, please bring up and address points in a mature manner.

12. Databook stats are not allowed.

13. If there is anything written in multiple databooks, the newest one supersedes the older one.

First draft of the new manga rules. Thoughts?

[Smiley]

How is "fool" permitted but not "stupid" and "idiot"? The rule should simply read something like "Be respectful towards other BDers".

The 4th rule is nonsense; sheer appeal to popularity.

The 11th rule seems redundant as it's already covered with the first few rules.

The 12th rule is also nonsense, simply because the idea that the "staff" can determine what can be used as evidence and what can not and not Masashi Kishimoto is stupid and arrogant (even if we were to concede that stats are unreliable). But whatever. I don't expect this to be changed.

[Mattus]

How is "fool" permitted but not "stupid" and "idiot"? The rule should simply read something like "Be respectful towards other BDers".

The 4th rule is nonsense; sheer appeal to popularity.

The 11th rule seems redundant as it's already covered with the first few rules.

The 12th rule is also nonsense, simply because the idea that the "staff" can determine what can be used as evidence and what can not and not Masashi Kishimoto is stupid and arrogant (even if we were to concede that stats are unreliable). But whatever. I don't expect this to be changed.

Alright...

---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

1. Do not throw a tantrum just because someone has a different opinion.

2. Be respectful towards other members.

3. Try not to make incredibly brief posts. "Itachi will win because of experience and MS." is fine although try and elaborate more than "Itachi pwns."

4. When posting a rumor, please show the source of the rumor.

5. Please do not post fight threads in the main section of the battledome. Those are for debater and forum related threads.

6. Try not to make the same thread unless you are changing the specs of the fight. We have several "Official Threads". Before creating a thread if you could check to see if there isn't already a thread like that on this forum that would save us some work, thank you.

7. Follow the specific rules of each thread. Meaning do not take away or add any other fights or change any other details.

8. Any details regarding the battle need to be put in the opening post of the thread.

9. After 24 hours or 15 posts, the opening post of a thread cannot be changed. So work all details out ahead of time.

10. If there is anything written in multiple databooks, the newest one supersedes the older one.[/QUOTE]

Better?

[Pokeaotics]

How is "fool" permitted but not "stupid" and "idiot"? The rule should simply read something like "Be respectful towards other BDers".

The 4th rule is nonsense; sheer appeal to popularity.

The 11th rule seems redundant as it's already covered with the first few rules.

The 12th rule is also nonsense, simply because the idea that the "staff" can determine what can be used as evidence and what can not and not Masashi Kishimoto is stupid and arrogant (even if we were to concede that stats are unreliable). But whatever. I don't expect this to be changed.
I agree.

What's the point of rule 5?

Not sure about DB stuff though. I've never used them personally, so I don't think I care.

[Mattus]

I've updated them so I don't know which rule you are referring to. The rumor rule or the posting in the sub-forums rule? Cause I think both are fairly self-explanatory.


1. Do not throw a tantrum just because someone has a different opinion.

2. Be respectful towards other members.

3. Try not to make incredibly brief posts. "Itachi will win because of experience and MS." is fine although try and elaborate more than "Itachi pwns."

4. When posting a rumor, please show the source of the rumor.

5. Please do not post fight threads in the main section of the Naruto Battledome. Those are for debater and forum related threads.

6. Try not to make the same thread unless you are changing the specs of the fight. We have several "Official Threads". Before creating a thread if you could check to see if there isn't already a thread like that on this forum that would save us some work, thank you.

7. Follow the specific rules of each thread. Meaning do not take away or add any other fights or change any other details.

8. Any details regarding the battle need to be put in the opening post of the thread.

Reccomended Format (http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?17224-Please-READ-Before-Creating-a-Thread.)

9. After 24 hours or 15 posts, the opening post of a thread cannot be changed. So work all details out ahead of time.

10. If there is anything written in multiple databooks, the newest one supersedes the older one.

Updated again. This is with Stacy and Smiley's requested changes.

[Pokeaotics]

The new rule 4. I mean I just don't see the point of it.

[Mattus]

1. Do not throw a tantrum just because someone has a different opinion.

2. Be respectful towards other members.

3. Try not to make incredibly brief posts. "Itachi will win because of experience and MS." is fine although try and elaborate more than "Itachi pwns."

4. Please do not post fight threads in the main section of the Naruto Battledome. Those are for debater and forum related threads.

5. Try not to make the same thread unless you are changing the specs of the fight. We have several "Official Threads". Before creating a thread if you could check to see if there isn't already a thread like that on this forum that would save us some work, thank you.

6. Follow the specific rules of each thread. Meaning do not take away or add any other fights or change any other details unless the other members of the thread agree to them.

7. Any details regarding the battle need to be put in the opening post of the thread.

Reccomended Format (http://www.talknaruto.com/naruto/showthread.php?17224-Please-READ-Before-Creating-a-Thread.)

8. When asked to provide a source or proof for a specific point please do so.

9. After 24 hours or 15 posts, the opening post of a thread cannot be changed. So work all details out ahead of time.

10. If there is anything written in multiple databooks, the newest one supersedes the older one.

Old rule 4 is the new rule 8. Better? This also addresses what DIY brought up.

[LostLegend]

EDITED - Beaten to it

The rest I mostly agree with (Even if 11 is not very needed) because not everyone uses databook stats. For example, Jiraiya may use hand signs better than Naruto but Naruto could do something else... They don't really contribute to a fight where too much can happen. I mean, just because you have faster hand sign creation it doesn't mean you are going to win *Shrugs*

[Mattus]

EDITED - Beaten to it

The rest I mostly agree with (Even if 11 is not very needed) because not everyone uses databook stats. For example, Jiraiya may use hand signs better than Naruto but Naruto could do something else... They don't really contribute to a fight where too much can happen. I mean, just because you have faster hand sign creation it doesn't mean you are going to win *Shrugs*
I already took 11 out for that reason. :p

[D.I.Y Death]

I like them, they're simple and easy to follow while covering up the massive gaping holes that some arguments have due to refusal to provide proof.

[Raikage's left hand]

EDITED - Beaten to it

The rest I mostly agree with (Even if 11 is not very needed) because not everyone uses databook stats. For example, Jiraiya may use hand signs better than Naruto but Naruto could do something else... They don't really contribute to a fight where too much can happen. I mean, just because you have faster hand sign creation it doesn't mean you are going to win *Shrugs*

I'm fairly certain the hand seals stat was to do with chakra control. Ie Jiraiya's hand seal stat meant he was much better at controlling and manipulating his chakra than Naruto. Although that was before Naruto got sage mode.

Overall, rules are looking better.

[Mattus]

I'm fairly certain the hand seals stat was to do with chakra control. Ie Jiraiya's hand seal stat meant he was much better at controlling and manipulating his chakra than Naruto. Although that was before Naruto got sage mode.

Overall, rules are looking better.


I like them, they're simple and easy to follow while covering up the massive gaping holes that some arguments have due to refusal to provide proof.

Alright then I'll see what the rest of the staff thinks.

[D.I.Y Death]

Implement them, Muffin isn't supporting her arguments and needs a slap from a mod.

[Mattus]

Muffin come here....

[Raikage's left hand]

Yes..?

[Mattus]

-slap-


There you go, maybe that will teach her a lesson.

[BlackDragon]

Suggestion regarding OP changes.

Say a user has created an Itachi vs Naruto thread.

made before Kotoamatsukami or Izanami is shown.

That jutsu is shown. therefore giving new feats.

One could then easily say Itachi uses Koto on Naruto GG.

The OP should then be able to restrict a certain jutsu like Koto or Izanami based upon its finality.

[Kuro Nagashi]

^In such cases, from my understanding of the BD, a new thread would simply be made entitled "Itachi vs. Naruto [Restrictions]" and within the OP the creator would state that jutsu such as Izanami are restricted from Itachi. :)

And the original "Itachi vs. Naruto" would still be debated with whatever conditions are set in the OP (whether this be anything shown in the manga so far or whatever).

[BlackDragon]

ok. gotcha!!!