Sasuke vs. Kenpachi[Conditions]

[Kuro Nagashi]

Location: An open forest clearing with plenty mobility room in the center, but plenty of forest around for coverage.
Distance: Both start 5 meters apart.
Abilities: Sasuke has MS mastery, starting fully healthy and with full eyesight, and can summon his hawks. Sasuke can hit Kenpachi, as well as see him. Chakra = Reaitsu
Restrictions: Kenpachi can remove his eye patch, but he can't grip his zanpaktou with both hands. Nor can he walk on the air.
Mindset: In character

[D.I.Y Death]

Kenpachi with one hand was cleaving buildings in half, there's no way Sasuke will survive en=ven a single hit from Kenpachi.

BTW Kenpachi has tanked cuts to the neck and laughed it off as he squirted blood. Good luck causing more dmg then that Sasuke.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Even with cleaving buildings in half can he cleave straight through Susano'o? If Sasuke goes into that realizing he is out matched power wise, how is Kenpachi supposed to get to him from there? Also, once Sasuke is safe inside Susano'o he can just hit Kenpachi with Amatersu and I'm not so sure if Kenpachi could make it past that? Even if he could, the arrow shooting Susano'o packs a pretty good punch as well.

[Dreamer]

Kenpachi takes this.

We have seen how vulnerable Susanoo is to strong enough attacks. Kenpachi's raw power destroys anything that Sasuke has seen in comparison. Genjutsu wouldn't be a problem either because if reiatsu = chakra, Kenpachi can easily stabalize the unbalance caused by a genjutsu. The only problem would be Amaterasu, but I doubt Kenpachi could get caught in it.

Another factor is stamina. If Sasuke uses Susanoo, Amaterasu, and lets say he throws in Tsukiyomi he would be completely drained. His taijutsu would have no effect on Kenpachi forcing him to use all these techs. One of Kenpachi's strengths is his reiatsu. Kenpachi would last longer and eat him alive.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Even so, I'm not so sure that Kenpachi could stand up to this.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/484/05/

Kakashi even remarks that he would have had no way to get past the attack without blowing it away with Mangekyou. Not to mention Kenpachi being the man that tries to tank all attacks would probably take it, and there is no doubt those arrows would do some kind of damage to him.

[WhiteFang]

Considering the fact that Kenpachi is in-character in this; it's obvious he's going to try to tank Sasuke's attacks which will ruin him for sure: may it be Amaterasu or Susano'o.

Second thing is that how will Kenpachi deal with genjutsu? From what I've seen he's incapable of messing his reiatsu flow himself and his zanpakutou surely won't help him.

To this add the fact that Sasuke also has sharingan, which will make it easier for him to track Kenpachi's movements. Kenpachi is quite like Raikage in a lot of respects, and we've seen how Sasuke exploited the Raikage's rash nature using Enton.


Kenpachi takes this.
We have seen how vulnerable Susanoo is to strong enough attacks. Kenpachi's raw power destroys anything that Sasuke has seen in comparison. Genjutsu wouldn't be a problem either because if reiatsu = chakra, Kenpachi can easily stabalize the unbalance caused by a genjutsu. The only problem would be Amaterasu, but I doubt Kenpachi could get caught in it.
But we've seen that Susano'o's arrow is pretty fast, and liable to hit Kenpachi. And since chakra and reiatsu are equated, I'm gonna go ahead with the fact that Susano'o should be capable of effectively defending Kenpachi's attacks.
Why? I haven't really seen Kenpachi manipulate his reiatsu to the point that he can temporarily stop it's flow. Because that's what it takes to get out of genjutsu. Not to mention that Tsukuyomi takes but an instant, and Kenpachi will get ruined before he has any time to react. Also, Kenpachi's zanpakutou is uncooperative, so it won't help from the outside, either.
Kenpachi prolly won't get caught in Amaterasu, but he can definitely pull a stunt like Raikage. Kenpachi likes to handicap himself in a fight; however, in this particular fight, the handicap will turn out to be fatal.



Another factor is stamina. If Sasuke uses Susanoo, Amaterasu, and lets say he throws in Tsukiyomi he would be completely drained. His taijutsu would have no effect on Kenpachi forcing him to use all these techs. One of Kenpachi's strengths is his reiatsu. Kenpachi would last longer and eat him alive.

I have to agree that Kenpachi has the stamina advantage here. However Sasuke has the advantage of superior techniques. Plus I think Sasuke's hawk summon will also be useful; because it'll help Sasuke get an aerial advantage. Using Raiton based attacks from there or aiming Amaterasu would be pretty good.

[Priestess of Suzaku]

Kenpachi takes this.

We have seen how vulnerable Susanoo is to strong enough attacks. Kenpachi's raw power destroys anything that Sasuke has seen in comparison.



And which attacks are they?
Raikage snapped the Bone's of the first Form.
Danzo needed his Baku in Combo with Shinku Renpa to penetrate it the 2nd Form.
However Sasuke's Susanoo is complete now.
http://img-c.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000289512/09.jpg

Anyway Susanoo is Sasuke's only chance to withstand Kenpachi's attacks.
The only thing to conclude is if Kenpachi can get past the completed Susanoo.
All we have of that though is from Itachi being able to take Kirin with it.

[Dreamer]

Considering the fact that Kenpachi is in-character in this; it's obvious he's going to try to tank Sasuke's attacks which will ruin him for sure: may it be Amaterasu or Susano'o.

The only thing that would worry me in this fight is Kenpachi trying to take on Amaterasu instead of simply dodging it....


Second thing is that how will Kenpachi deal with genjutsu? From what I've seen he's incapable of messing his reiatsu flow himself and his zanpakutou surely won't help him.To combat the effects of Genjutsu, there are two options. The first option is to stop the flow of chakra, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside source unaffected by the genjutsu make body contact, and use its chakra to disrupt Sasuke's flow.

I'm not sure Kenpachi can completely stop the flow of chakra, but I know for a fact once he takes off the eye leech that limits his reiatsu/chakra he can apply a much stronger power to disrupt Sasuke's genjutsu. And even though his Zan doesn't cooperate with him its still has its own reiatsu/chakra as well. Since his Zan is always in contact with his body there's an alternative chakra supply to disrupt the genjutsu. Similar to Naruto's sage chakra or Kisame's Samehada where they come in contact with chakra from something other than themselves. He's safe whichever way you look at it.


To this add the fact that Sasuke also has sharingan, which will make it easier for him to track Kenpachi's movements. Kenpachi is quite like Raikage in a lot of respects, and we've seen how Sasuke exploited the Raikage's rash nature using Enton.Just because Sasuke can see what Kenpachi is going to do doesn't mean he can react to it. And if he does I highly doubt he can counter with the force put behind each of Kenpachi's strikes. And Sasuke's attacks wont even harm Kenpachi. When he fought Ichigo he gave him a charity slice to the neck (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/104/20/) and it couldn't even penetrate him.


But we've seen that Susano'o's arrow is pretty fast, and liable to hit Kenpachi. And since chakra and reiatsu are equated, I'm gonna go ahead with the fact that Susano'o should be capable of effectively defending Kenpachi's attacks.
I personally think Kenpachi can dodge Susanoo's arrow considering the speed he displayed in the battle against Nnoitra (the 5th Espada), and even if he chooses not to dodge Kenpachi can deflect it with his sword.


Not to mention that Tsukuyomi takes but an instant, and Kenpachi will get ruined before he has any time to react.I mentioned earlier how Kenpachi can counter Sasuke's genjutsu, but let's say he were to fall into Tsukuyomi; I don't think Tsukuyomi would affect Kenpachi that much at all. The torture that goes on during the genjutsu doesn't seem rough enough to shake a guy like Kenpachi. Remember one thing that makes him special is his ability to take hits and the durability of his body along with his fighting spirit.

And there's an enormous difference between Sasuke's and Itachi's Tsukuyomi. Itachi had the ability to alter a persons perception of time making the technique seem like it lasted for days when in reality it only lasted a few seconds. When Sasuke tried it during the Danzou fight, Danzou noted that Sasuke's version was inferior to his brothers because he couldn't alter the perception of time. This would be child's play for Kenpachi.


Also, Kenpachi's zanpakutou is uncooperative, so it won't help from the outside, either.It doesn't need to be cooperative in this case. As long as he's holding it in his hand its another source of chakra coming he's coming in contact with.


Kenpachi prolly won't get caught in Amaterasu, but he can definitely pull a stunt like Raikage. Kenpachi likes to handicap himself in a fight; however, in this particular fight, the handicap will turn out to be fatal.There were several times in the Ichigo and Nnoitra battles where Kenpachi "dodged" attacks in order to counter, but I'm not sure he would do this against Sasuke's amaterasu.


I have to agree that Kenpachi has the stamina advantage here. However Sasuke has the advantage of superior techniques. Plus I think Sasuke's hawk summon will also be useful; because it'll help Sasuke get an aerial advantage. Using Raiton based attacks from there or aiming Amaterasu would be pretty good. I don't think any chidori variant is strong enough to really wound Kenpachi. Cut him yes, but actually hurt him doubtful. And stamina plays an enormous role here. Sasuke after three of these techs is borderline wasted. It would take everything he's got just to hurt him. There's no way he can outlast Kenpachi, especially when he's significantly weaker.

The only disadvantage Kenpachi has in this battle is himself and he can counter that ala Raikage.


And which attacks are they?
Raikage snapped the Bone's of the first Form.
Danzo needed his Baku in Combo with Shinku Renpa to penetrate it the 2nd Form.
However Sasuke's Susanoo is complete now.
http://img-c.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000289512/09.jpg

Susanoo has no chance to withstand a barrage of attacks from Kenpachi. The disparity in power between the Bleachverse and Narutoverse is too significant. None of the attacks mentioned above come near the destructive power of Kenpachi's attacks.

[WhiteFang]

I'll address the last part of your post first:

Susanoo has no chance to withstand a barrage of attacks from Kenpachi. The disparity in power between the Bleachverse and Narutoverse is too significant. None of the attacks mentioned above come near the destructive power of Kenpachi's attacks.
After the chakra = reiatsu equation I think this point stands invalid. If you argue these two on the basis of the power chasm in the different universes itself, then the battle will obviously be won by Kenpachi.


The only thing that would worry me in this fight is Kenpachi trying to take on Amaterasu instead of simply dodging it....
Which he's rather likely to do given his character.


To combat the effects of Genjutsu, there are two options. The first option is to stop the flow of chakra, and then apply an even stronger power to disrupt the flow of the casters chakra. The second option is to have an outside source unaffected by the genjutsu make body contact, and use its chakra to disrupt Sasuke's flow.

I'm not sure Kenpachi can completely stop the flow of chakra, but I know for a fact once he takes off the eye leech that limits his reiatsu/chakra he can apply a much stronger power to disrupt Sasuke's genjutsu. And even though his Zan doesn't cooperate with him its still has its own reiatsu/chakra as well. Since his Zan is always in contact with his body there's an alternative chakra supply to disrupt the genjutsu. Similar to Naruto's sage chakra or Kisame's Samehada where they come in contact with chakra from something other than themselves. He's safe whichever way you look at it.
The bolded part. It's what effectively makes Kenpachi's Zan useless. The alternative chakra supply needs to be inserted willfully to disrupt the flow, it just being present won't do anything. Proof lies in the fact that how Itachi and even Sasuke, were able to put Naruto in a genjutsu everytime, although he had an external chakra source in the form of a bijuu sitting inside of him.
And Kenpachi has no documented evidence of being able to manipulate the flow of his chakra/reiatsu, so he can't stop it, and by extension he can't counter genjutsu.


Just because Sasuke can see what Kenpachi is going to do doesn't mean he can react to it. And if he does I highly doubt he can counter with the force put behind each of Kenpachi's strikes. And Sasuke's attacks wont even harm Kenpachi. When he fought Ichigo he gave him a charity slice to the neck (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/104/20/) and it couldn't even penetrate him.
Now, now. This isn't about swords, you see. If Sasuke is using Enton, and Kenpachi pulls a Raikage like move, he'll get eaten up by Amaterasu much like Raikage was. The basic difference between sword and jutsu is this: to inflict damage with a sword, you need to get near the enemy first of all and then it depends on the power of your strike; (ignoring bankai here, of course) whereas jutsu can work from a distance and depend on elements to inflict damage. And you can't just assume that because Ichigo's Zangetsu didn't penetrate Kenpachi, Sasuke's Kusanagi won't. It is known to be able to damage diamond, from the fight with Enma. The one with chidori running through it obviously stronger in addition to having a numbing effect on the individual on which it is used.


I personally think Kenpachi can dodge Susanoo's arrow considering the speed he displayed in the battle against Nnoitra (the 5th Espada), and even if he chooses not to dodge Kenpachi can deflect it with his sword.
*shrugs* Not that far into the manga yet. xD
Is it even possible to deflect an ethereal kind of arrow with a sword? I don't think so. Otherwise Danzo would have surely used his Fuuton jutsu to push it back, but he used Izanagi instead. Clearly you can't counter that thing.


I mentioned earlier how Kenpachi can counter Sasuke's genjutsu, but let's say he were to fall into Tsukuyomi; I don't think Tsukuyomi would affect Kenpachi that much at all. The torture that goes on during the genjutsu doesn't seem rough enough to shake a guy like Kenpachi. Remember one thing that makes him special is his ability to take hits and the durability of his body along with his fighting spirit.

And there's an enormous difference between Sasuke's and Itachi's Tsukuyomi. Itachi had the ability to alter a persons perception of time making the technique seem like it lasted for days when in reality it only lasted a few seconds. When Sasuke tried it during the Danzou fight, Danzou noted that Sasuke's version was inferior to his brothers because he couldn't alter the perception of time. This would be child's play for Kenpachi.

Er. This is debatable. We'd seen layered genjutsu in the Sasuke-Itachi battle. Even if it doesn't affect Kenpachi too much, the genjutsu can still serve to make an opening for Sasuke. Even Kenpachi won't survive a chidori-charged Kusanagi to the heart, whatever his durability. And then there's Susano'o's arrow.


It doesn't need to be cooperative in this case. As long as he's holding it in his hand its another source of chakra coming he's coming in contact with.
His Zan doesn't cooperate with him at all, no. And simply holding it won't cut it; the chakra will have to be forced in to disrupt Sasuke's and we all know Kenpachi's sword won't do that, it hates him.


There were several times in the Ichigo and Nnoitra battles where Kenpachi "dodged" attacks in order to counter, but I'm not sure he would do this against Sasuke's amaterasu.
Yes it is indeed difficult to say..


I don't think any chidori variant is strong enough to really wound Kenpachi. Cut him yes, but actually hurt him doubtful. And stamina plays an enormous role here. Sasuke after three of these techs is borderline wasted. It would take everything he's got just to hurt him. There's no way he can outlast Kenpachi, especially when he's significantly weaker.
Sasuke's extended Chidori katana thingy easily cut off Hachibi's tentacle. And his chidori powered Kusanagi should be easily able to cut through Kenpachi's skin, if not his sword.
Stamina is, of course, an issue.


The only disadvantage Kenpachi has in this battle is himself and he can counter that ala Raikage.

But Raikage lost an arm. And if it weren't for Gaara he would've also lost a leg, and probably died.

[Kuro Nagashi]

*shrugs* Not that far into the manga yet. xD
Is it even possible to deflect an ethereal kind of arrow with a sword? I don't think so. Otherwise Danzo would have surely used his Fuuton jutsu to push it back, but he used Izanagi instead. Clearly you can't counter that thing.

I would like to bring attention to this part of Fang's post. With the manga link I gave, Kakashi was forced to block with kamui, and had it been blockable by something else, wouldn't Kakashi have used that and conserved his chakra. Meaning it is safe to say that Kenpachi wouldn't be able to just hack and slash those arrows. Not to mention Kenpachi isn't one of the faster characters in Bleach, so I think he would have trouble with the arrows.

Plus with what the others have pointed out about Sasuke's techniques I think Kenpachi would try and play his tanking style and end up sealing his own doom in this fight.

[Dreamer]

After the chakra = reiatsu equation I think this point stands invalid. If you argue these two on the basis of the power chasm in the different universes itself, then the battle will obviously be won by Kenpachi.
The chakra = reiatsu equation dosen't take away from Kenpachi's strength. We have to consider his power feats in the Bleachverse and apply them here.




Which he's rather likely to do given his character.
Agreed, but all we can do is speculate on how he would react.


The bolded part. It's what effectively makes Kenpachi's Zan useless. The alternative chakra supply needs to be inserted willfully to disrupt the flow, it just being present won't do anything. Proof lies in the fact that how Itachi and even Sasuke, were able to put Naruto in a genjutsu everytime, although he had an external chakra source in the form of a bijuu sitting inside of him.
And Kenpachi has no documented evidence of being able to manipulate the flow of his chakra/reiatsu, so he can't stop it, and by extension he can't counter genjutsu. These are complete different situations though. Naruto and the Kyuubi are united and have the same chakra flow. When Naruto uses the Kyuubi's chakra it flows through his chakra system meaning they are integrated. And the Kyuubi always wants Naruto to use his chakra because he wants Naruto to lose control and break the seal. It's completely different from Kenpachi and his Zan who are completely separate chakra systems. And I've never heard that the contact between chakra's had to be willingly. All I've heard is if another chakra source comes in contact with the person, the genjutsu is broken.

Plus don't think Sasuke can even handle the chakra surge by Kenpachi when he has his eye-patch off.


Now, now. This isn't about swords, you see. If Sasuke is using Enton, and Kenpachi pulls a Raikage like move, he'll get eaten up by Amaterasu much like Raikage was. The basic difference between sword and jutsu is this: to inflict damage with a sword, you need to get near the enemy first of all and then it depends on the power of your strike; (ignoring bankai here, of course) whereas jutsu can work from a distance and depend on elements to inflict damage. And you can't just assume that because Ichigo's Zangetsu didn't penetrate Kenpachi, Sasuke's Kusanagi won't. It is known to be able to damage diamond, from the fight with Enma. The one with chidori running through it obviously stronger in addition to having a numbing effect on the individual on which it is used.


How long do you think Sasuke can spam jutsu though? He has no chance against Kenpachi because three techs and his fighting ability is crippled. And it's not only Ichigo's Zangetsu that couldn't penetrate him, but we also saw the same thing when he fought Nnoitra which was on a complete different level then the Ichigo he fought. He was taking blows straight on like nothing. I think your underestimating Kenpachi's body and his ability to take damage. And let's not forget, Sasuke was defeated by the Raikage and it was Gaara who bailed him out.


*shrugs* Not that far into the manga yet. xD
Is it even possible to deflect an ethereal kind of arrow with a sword? I don't think so. Otherwise Danzo would have surely used his Fuuton jutsu to push it back, but he used Izanagi instead. Clearly you can't counter that thing.

Ahh I'm so sorry, didn't mean to spoil xD

Susanoo's arrows are made of chakra, they can be deflected or dodged. Given the arrow travels at great speed, but judging by the speed displayed by Kenpachi he can dodge this. And if Danzou can react to the arrow and use Izenagi to counter it, I'm certain Kenpachi can react and dodge it or react and deflect it considering his strength with the sword.

Er. This is debatable. We'd seen layered genjutsu in the Sasuke-Itachi battle. Even if it doesn't affect Kenpachi too much, the genjutsu can still serve to make an opening for Sasuke. Even Kenpachi won't survive a chidori-charged Kusanagi to the heart, whatever his durability. And then there's Susano'o's arrow.Tsukiyomi only last a few seconds and Sasuke is manipulating the brain's chakra flow. I really don't think he can pull off a kusanagi at the same time. Not enough time and we've never seen it done before. Also in order for this to affect Kenpachi, hypothetically, he would have to be damaged mentally by the few seconds of "torture" from Sasuke's version of Tsukuyomi which lacks the key factor that makes this genjutsu effective... time perception.


His Zan doesn't cooperate with him at all, no. And simply holding it won't cut it; the chakra will have to be forced in to disrupt Sasuke's and we all know Kenpachi's sword won't do that, it hates him.

Like I said earlier, I always thought you just needed to come into contact with another chakra source. And all the sources I've read never mention the fact that the chakra has to be forced in. But since these sources aren't manga I can't say I'm right for a fact. Where can I find this in the manga?


Sasuke's extended Chidori katana thingy easily cut off Hachibi's tentacle. And his chidori powered Kusanagi should be easily able to cut through Kenpachi's skin, if not his sword.



I really don't consider cutting one of the hachibi's tentacles that big of a feat, especially after this fight with SM Naruto and the Kyuubi. No doubt he can cut him, but theres a big difference between cutting hima and hurting him. Kenpachi was getting butchered by Nnoitra sword and was laughing. And once again Sasuke has to choose what techniques to use on Kenpachi. We have thrown out all of Sasuke's arsenal and still have question on whether or not they can effect Kenpachi on a major scale. The truth is he can't use all of these because he's limited and Kenpachi would feast on this weakness.


But Raikage lost an arm. And if it weren't for Gaara he would've also lost a leg, and probably died.
But the Raikage also had Sasuke at his mercy and was held back by Gaara.


Originally Posted by Kuro Nagashi
I would like to bring attention to this part of Fang's post. With the manga link I gave, Kakashi was forced to block with kamui, and had it been blockable by something else, wouldn't Kakashi have used that and conserved his chakra. Meaning it is safe to say that Kenpachi wouldn't be able to just hack and slash those arrows. Not to mention Kenpachi isn't one of the faster characters in Bleach, so I think he would have trouble with the arrows.
Kakashi didn't block the arrow because he couldn't, but there's an enormous difference between Kenpachi and Kakashi.



Plus with what the others have pointed out about Sasuke's techniques I think Kenpachi would try and play his tanking style and end up sealing his own doom in this fight.

Amaterasu is the only thing Kakashi needs to be aware of and we already saw someone with Kenpachi's attitude take on Sasuke and the results were in his favor. Yeah he probably would have died due to the loss of blood. but not before taking out Sasuke first.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Plus don't think Sasuke can even handle the chakra surge by Kenpachi when he has his eye-patch off.


It doesn't matter if Sasuke can handle the chakra surge or not, because if Kenpachi is trapped in the genjutsu he can't take off the eyepatch to stop the genjutsu. Meaning, the second Sasuke captures Kenpachi in a genjutsu, especially one of his paralyzing ones, Kenpachi is screwed as Sasuke can just try multiple things until he gets Kenpachi. Also like Kenpachi once said "I've never met a guy who's eyes can't be cut." Meaning Sasuke, once trapping Kenpachi can just stab through the eye and no more Kenpachi.

Plus, if I remember, Nnoitra was capable of cutting into Kenpachi pretty easily, and I don't think his swords could cut through diamond without the addition of a raiton current to boost that power.


How long do you think Sasuke can spam jutsu though? He has no chance against Kenpachi because three techs and his fighting ability is crippled. And it's not only Ichigo's Zangetsu that couldn't penetrate him, but we also saw the same thing when he fought Nnoitra which was on a complete different level then the Ichigo he fought. He was taking blows straight on like nothing. I think your underestimating Kenpachi's body and his ability to take damage. And let's not forget, Sasuke was defeated by the Raikage and it was Gaara who bailed him out.


Not underestimating per se, but Nnoitra's blades were never stated to be able to cut through diamond and they were able to cut into Kenpachi, and after enough cuts I think Kenpachi would drop from blood loss.


Susanoo's arrows are made of chakra, they can be deflected or dodged. Given the arrow travels at great speed, but judging by the speed displayed by Kenpachi he can dodge this. And if Danzou can react to the arrow and use Izenagi to counter it, I'm certain Kenpachi can react and dodge it or react and deflect it considering his strength with the sword.

Sure, Kenpachi probably could dodge but seeing as he is in character and his style is usually. "An attack, I'll just tank it." Then he gets hit, and shrugs off whatever damage there is. Now, seeing as Kenpachi would probably do this with one of Susanoo's arrows, it would result in the sealing of this fight for Kenpachi. I'm almost positive that even Kenpachi couldn't take a direct hit from one of Susanoo's arrows and just walk away like nothing happened.


Like I said earlier, I always thought you just needed to come into contact with another chakra source. And all the sources I've read never mention the fact that the chakra has to be forced in. But since these sources aren't manga I can't say I'm right for a fact. Where can I find this in the manga?

It doesn't have to be willing, just come in contact, but we know that Kenpachi's zanpaktou won't force chakra into him to release the genjutsu. Thus, there is nobody to help Kenpachi once he is captured by a genjutsu.


Kakashi didn't block the arrow because he couldn't, but there's an enormous difference between Kenpachi and Kakashi.


Who's to say Kakashi couldn't? It never said he could block with something else or that he couldn't leaving it up to speculation. However, knowing Kakashi he would have tried to save his strength and use something less draining.


Amaterasu is the only thing Kakashi needs to be aware of and we already saw someone with Kenpachi's attitude take on Sasuke and the results were in his favor. Yeah he probably would have died due to the loss of blood. but not before taking out Sasuke first.

I don't think Kenpachi would result to cutting off a limb though, being the tank guy he is. He would probably just think to let it burn itself out or sit and take it until it burnt off/out not knowing the effects the jutsu had until it was near to late.

[Dreamer]

It doesn't matter if Sasuke can handle the chakra surge or not, because if Kenpachi is trapped in the genjutsu he can't take off the eyepatch to stop the genjutsu. Meaning, the second Sasuke captures Kenpachi in a genjutsu, especially one of his paralyzing ones, Kenpachi is screwed as Sasuke can just try multiple things until he gets Kenpachi. Also like Kenpachi once said "I've never met a guy who's eyes can't be cut." Meaning Sasuke, once trapping Kenpachi can just stab through the eye and no more Kenpachi.

Plus, if I remember, Nnoitra was capable of cutting into Kenpachi pretty easily, and I don't think his swords could cut through diamond without the addition of a raiton current to boost that power.

I wasn't referring to him just taking off his eye-patch during the gen. If Kenpachi already has his eye-patch off and has his reiatsu explosion we don't know if Sasuke can cause an imbalance with that massive amount of chakra or Ken's reiatsu would neutralize the tech completely. Sasuke's most effective gen (Tsukuyomi) can't harm Ken because his gen skills are still developing and is no where near Itachi's level.

You are correct Nnoitra was cutting Kenpachi, but he was laughing it off completely. Kubo has gone out of his way to show the durability of Kenpachi's body. This fact has been underestimated in this thread when that along with his physical power are his biggest strengths.



Not underestimating per se, but Nnoitra's blades were never stated to be able to cut through diamond and they were able to cut into Kenpachi, and after enough cuts I think Kenpachi would drop from blood loss.
We have already seen Ken take massive amount of damage and bleeding to the point of muscular malfunction and he has survived what makes you think this time he would die. You also have to consider Sasuke's stamina limitations. How many chidori variants can Sasuke use while having to use all his other jutsu's. Like I said in my previous post Sasuke would be wasted by the time he even managed to threaten Ken with a serious attack. Kenpachi is stronger and can outlast him in a battle.


Sure, Kenpachi probably could dodge but seeing as he is in character and his style is usually. "An attack, I'll just tank it." Then he gets hit, and shrugs off whatever damage there is. Now, seeing as Kenpachi would probably do this with one of Susanoo's arrows, it would result in the sealing of this fight for Kenpachi. I'm almost positive that even Kenpachi couldn't take a direct hit from one of Susanoo's arrows and just walk away like nothing happened.

I highly doubt Kenpachi would take an arrow from Susanoo coming at full speed. This isn't an ordinary sword swipe and he would be aware of it. He has to treat it like a cero or another energy blast. I doubt he would dodge it (even though he can), but instead he would deflect it not take a direct hit. "I've never met a guy who's eyes can't be cut. Your quote demonstrated that Kenpachi is aware of his own mortality.


It doesn't have to be willing, just come in contact, but we know that Kenpachi's zanpaktou won't force chakra into him to release the genjutsu. Thus, there is nobody to help Kenpachi once he is captured by a genjutsu.

If it dosen't have to be willing and Ken is holding his Zan, which is another chakra source, then the genjutsu is broken.


Who's to say Kakashi couldn't? It never said he could block with something else or that he couldn't leaving it up to speculation. However, knowing Kakashi he would have tried to save his strength and use something less draining.


What can Kakashi do to possibly deflect/block Susanoo's arrow? He doesn't have Ken's strength and isn't going to use a Kunai to deflect it. His best bet is dodging and he couldn't in that situation.


I don't think Kenpachi would result to cutting off a limb though, being the tank guy he is. He would probably just think to let it burn itself out or sit and take it until it burnt off/out not knowing the effects the jutsu had until it was near to late.
I think after he sees the flame is still burning he would figure it out. Also, Sasuke has an arrogant personality and could tell him right off the bat.

[Kuro Nagashi]

I wasn't referring to him just taking off his eye-patch during the gen. If Kenpachi already has his eye-patch off and has his reiatsu explosion we don't know if Sasuke can cause an imbalance with that massive amount of chakra or Ken's reiatsu would neutralize the tech completely. Sasuke's most effective gen (Tsukuyomi) can't harm Ken because his gen skills are still developing and is no where near Itachi's level.

I think Sasuke could cause an imbalance in that amount of chakra, if he couldn't how could he have done what he did with Naruto when he entered his mind and confronted the Kyuubii? It has been stated that that amount of chakra alone is immense, and if it could be done with Naruto, why not Kenpachi?


You are correct Nnoitra was cutting Kenpachi, but he was laughing it off completely. Kubo has gone out of his way to show the durability of Kenpachi's body. This fact has been underestimated in this thread when that along with his physical power are his biggest strengths.

True, but how far does Kenpachi's durability go? Gaping holes from Susanoo arrows, or being stabbed with a raiton kusangi numbing his body? Trapped in genjutsu not being able to do anything? How far can he go?


We have already seen Ken take massive amount of damage and bleeding to the point of muscular malfunction and he has survived what makes you think this time he would die. You also have to consider Sasuke's stamina limitations. How many chidori variants can Sasuke use while having to use all his other jutsu's. Like I said in my previous post Sasuke would be wasted by the time he even managed to threaten Ken with a serious attack. Kenpachi is stronger and can outlast him in a battle.

Sure Sasuke is limited on stamina, but as soon as Kenpachi shows Sasuke that he can't do much Sasuke will just go Susanoo and arrow blitz for a period of time. That or if Sasuke wants to save his eyesight and all that junk, he will just bust out a Kirin. How does Kenpachi deal with that? Even Kenpachi couldn't stand up to real lightning traveling through his body. Plus, even Kenpachi doesn't have the speed or defense to dodge that.



I highly doubt Kenpachi would take an arrow from Susanoo coming at full speed. This isn't an ordinary sword swipe and he would be aware of it. He has to treat it like a cero or another energy blast. I doubt he would dodge it (even though he can), but instead he would deflect it not take a direct hit. "I've never met a guy who's eyes can't be cut. Your quote demonstrated that Kenpachi is aware of his own mortality.

Why wouldn't he? Kenpachi is crazy, and even though Kenpachi knows of his own mortality doesn't mean he will pay attention to it. We have seen him take several attacks that would make sense for him to deflect but instead he chooses to take them instead. What makes this case different?


If it dosen't have to be willing and Ken is holding his Zan, which is another chakra source, then the genjutsu is broken.

Actually, the other party, in this case Kenpachi's zanpaktou, has to be willing. Meaning, Kenpachi's zanpaktou would have to force chakra into Kenpachi to end the genjutsu. Now, knowing this, Kenpachi's zanpaktou from what we have seen and heard, doesn't give a rat's rear end about Kenpachi and wouldn't help him end the genjutsu.


What can Kakashi do to possibly deflect/block Susanoo's arrow? He doesn't have Ken's strength and isn't going to use a Kunai to deflect it. His best bet is dodging and he couldn't in that situation.

I'll give you this one :lol:


I think after he sees the flame is still burning he would figure it out. Also, Sasuke has an arrogant personality and could tell him right off the bat.

Possibly, but even though Sasuke is so arrogant I don't think he would give out his biggest secret to somebody who out matches him. Maybe Kenpachi would realize, but knowing Sasuke he would go for a fatal hit, and if it gets on Kenpachi's torso how is he supposed to stop that one?

[Dreamer]

I think Sasuke could cause an imbalance in that amount of chakra, if he couldn't how could he have done what he did with Naruto when he entered his mind and confronted the Kyuubii? It has been stated that that amount of chakra alone is immense, and if it could be done with Naruto, why not Kenpachi?
Lets not get things confused. The sharingan has a special power over the Kyuubi thats why he was able to do that. We really haven't seen Sasuke put anything near Ken's chakra level under a genjutsu.


True, but how far does Kenpachi's durability go? Gaping holes from Susanoo arrows, or being stabbed with a raiton kusangi numbing his body? Trapped in genjutsu not being able to do anything? How far can he go?

Enough to survive countless straight up slices by the 5th Espada with minimal damage ;)


Sure Sasuke is limited on stamina, but as soon as Kenpachi shows Sasuke that he can't do much Sasuke will just go Susanoo and arrow blitz for a period of time. That or if Sasuke wants to save his eyesight and all that junk, he will just bust out a Kirin. How does Kenpachi deal with that? Even Kenpachi couldn't stand up to real lightning traveling through his body. Plus, even Kenpachi doesn't have the speed or defense to dodge that.

And Ken just breaks through Susanoo's defenses with his massive power. Kirin can only be performed in the perfect setting or has to be set up by Sasuke whuch is a process as we saw in the Itachi fight. By that time Ken would be finished or Sasuke would be drained. And Sasuke can't afford to save his eye sight and all that junk lol. He needs to throw out everything he has to even stand a chance (as small as it may seem and completeness dependent on Kenpachi's attitude). So no, Sasuke can't blitz Kenpachi.


Why wouldn't he? Kenpachi is crazy, and even though Kenpachi knows of his own mortality doesn't mean he will pay attention to it. We have seen him take several attacks that would make sense for him to deflect but instead he chooses to take them instead. What makes this case different?

He takes them because he knows he can survive them. Big difference.


Actually, the other party, in this case Kenpachi's zanpaktou, has to be willing. Meaning, Kenpachi's zanpaktou would have to force chakra into Kenpachi to end the genjutsu. Now, knowing this, Kenpachi's zanpaktou from what we have seen and heard, doesn't give a rat's rear end about Kenpachi and wouldn't help him end the genjutsu.

Link?


Possibly, but even though Sasuke is so arrogant I don't think he would give out his biggest secret to somebody who out matches him. Maybe Kenpachi would realize, but knowing Sasuke he would go for a fatal hit, and if it gets on Kenpachi's torso how is he supposed to stop that one?

Better yet, how is Sasuke going to get to Ken's torso? Taijutsu? no. Swordsmanship? Hell no. And once again by this time he'scompletely wasted and his fighting ability is severely crippled.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Lets not get things confused. The sharingan has a special power over the Kyuubi thats why he was able to do that. We really haven't seen Sasuke put anything near Ken's chakra level under a genjutsu.

Okay then, but I don't think it matters on the amount of chakra somebody possesses to put them under a genjutsu. However, I'm not to sure on this one.


Enough to survive countless straight up slices by the 5th Espada with minimal damage ;)

Slices are small, an arrow from Susanoo isn't. It would be much more severe :)


And Ken just breaks through Susanoo's defenses with his massive power. Kirin can only be performed in the perfect setting or has to be set up by Sasuke whuch is a process as we saw in the Itachi fight. By that time Ken would be finished or Sasuke would be drained. And Sasuke can't afford to save his eye sight and all that junk lol. He needs to throw out everything he has to even stand a chance (as small as it may seem and completeness dependent on Kenpachi's attitude). So no, Sasuke can't blitz Kenpachi.

Who's to say that Kenpachi could bust through Susanoo? We don't know the limit of its durability. I think you aren't giving Sasuke enough credit, he isn't stupid. Remember, he can summon his hawk and just take to the air having plenty of time to set up Kirin as Kenpachi can't do the air walk in this scenario.


He takes them because he knows he can survive them. Big difference.

Does he now? Where does it say this anywhere? Last time I checked, Kenpachi just took them because it made fights "fun"


Link?

Chiyo says: Another can cancel the genjutsu themselves

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/06/

Also, Sakura had to insert her chakra, willingly into Naruto:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/117/06/

What I think you are trying to say is by just touching somebody else with chakra would cancel the genjutsu, no it doesn't work like that. The partner has to insert their chakra into their partner to release the genjutsu.



Better yet, how is Sasuke going to get to Ken's torso? Taijutsu? no. Swordsmanship? Hell no. And once again by this time he'scompletely wasted and his fighting ability is severely crippled.

Sasuke can aim with amaterasu, its whatever the eye sees if I remember correctly. Meaning if Sasuke focuses on Kenpachi's torso, there we go :lol:

[sproxy]

But we've seen that Susano'o's arrow is pretty fast, and liable to hit Kenpachi. And since chakra and reiatsu are equated, I'm gonna go ahead with the fact that Susano'o should be capable of effectively defending Kenpachi's attacks.
Naw. Danzou used a Fuuton to cut into the back of Susanoo, meaning Susanoo is vulnerable to heavy hits. Kenpachi is the ultimate slasher, slashing entire buildings in half with but a swing (looked pretty effortless to me). Susanoo in no way will protect Sasuke from Kenpachi's attacks.

Also its known that Bleach is pretty much all faster than Naruto characters. And Kenpachi hasnt been shown to be slow.

The only thing that will help Sasuke will be Amaterasu and those arrows. But the arrows wont be fast enough and Amaterasu might not be powerful enough to take down Kenpachi. Sure it would eventually kill him if he isnt able to pull a Raikage and remove the flaming body part but if it doesnt kill him as soon as it hits then Kenpachi will kill Sasuke pretty fast early on until Kenpachi dies also from Amaterasu.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Naw. Danzou used a Fuuton to cut into the back of Susanoo, meaning Susanoo is vulnerable to heavy hits. Kenpachi is the ultimate slasher, slashing entire buildings in half with but a swing (looked pretty effortless to me). Susanoo in no way will protect Sasuke from Kenpachi's attacks.

Did this actually hurt Sasuke though? I don't think so :lol:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/479/09/

^Neither Fuuton jutsu actually broke Susanoo and injured Sasuke, so who is to say Kenpachi could break it?


Also its known that Bleach is pretty much all faster than Naruto characters. And Kenpachi hasnt been shown to be slow.

The only thing that will help Sasuke will be Amaterasu and those arrows. But the arrows wont be fast enough and Amaterasu might not be powerful enough to take down Kenpachi. Sure it would eventually kill him if he isnt able to pull a Raikage and remove the flaming body part but if it doesnt kill him as soon as it hits then Kenpachi will kill Sasuke pretty fast early on until Kenpachi dies also from Amaterasu.

It doesn't matter if Kenpachi can dodge, the more dangerous a fight for him the more fun he has. Being like he is, he wouldn't try and doge either of those attacks the first time he saw them. Meaning he would end up taking an incredible amount of damage before he could do anything to Sasuke.

[Dreamer]

Slices are small, an arrow from Susanoo isn't. It would be much more severe :)

Countless point black strikes to the chest by the 5th Espada is much more effective than a few chakra arrows.


Who's to say that Kenpachi could bust through Susanoo? We don't know the limit of its durability. I think you aren't giving Sasuke enough credit, he isn't stupid. Remember, he can summon his hawk and just take to the air having plenty of time to set up Kirin as Kenpachi can't do the air walk in this scenario.


Once again, no one in the Narutoverse possesses the amount of strength Ken has except for maybe SM Naruto. And thet are in character, Sasuke isn't going to summon a hawk and fly away until he's ready to attack.


Does he now? Where does it say this anywhere? Last time I checked, Kenpachi just took them because it made fights "fun"
Exactly it's "fun" to fight. He's not going to take anything he can't handle. Like in his battle with Ichigo after they were going at it and Ichi's strikes got on a deadly level, Ken was deflecting them with his sword not taking them.


Chiyo says: Another can cancel the genjutsu themselves

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/257/06/

Also, Sakura had to insert her chakra, willingly into Naruto:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/117/06/

What I think you are trying to say is by just touching somebody else with chakra would cancel the genjutsu, no it doesn't work like that. The partner has to insert their chakra into their partner to release the genjutsu.




These links prove absolutely nothing. Nowhere does it say it has to be willingly. And of course Sakura did it willingly because it was Naruto, but that's just one example of breaking genjutsu. Most cases are like this because your helping someone get out of the gen. So I'm still going with the "contact" way described everywhere :)


Sasuke can aim with amaterasu, its whatever the eye sees if I remember correctly. Meaning if Sasuke focuses on Kenpachi's torso, there we go :lol:

Is this before or after he uses all his gen, chidori variants, hawk summon, and kirin just to create an opening..... Like I said we already saw Sasuke fight someone with Ken's mindset and Sasuke was defeated (bailed out by Gaara). Kenpachi is much stronger and faster than the Raikage. All Ken has to do is blitz him with both his speed and strength. Sasuke ccan come up with little tricks, but at the end of the day if he can't really wound his opponent, he has no chance.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Countless point black strikes to the chest by the 5th Espada is much more effective than a few chakra arrows.

A few chakra arrows? Did you not see what just one of those arrows could do? If not, let me show you :)

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/478/11/

^Might wanna go back a page first :lol:


Once again, no one in the Narutoverse possesses the amount of strength Ken has except for maybe SM Naruto. And thet are in character, Sasuke isn't going to summon a hawk and fly away until he's ready to attack.

Sasuke isn't stupid though, as soon as he realized he was outmatched in speed and power he would either go into Susanoo, or take to the sky on the hawk summoning. Either way, once there Kenpachi can't get to him.


Exactly it's "fun" to fight. He's not going to take anything he can't handle. Like in his battle with Ichigo after they were going at it and Ichi's strikes got on a deadly level, Ken was deflecting them with his sword not taking them.

True, but Kenpachi didn't start blocking or anything until he realized how lethal it was. Do you really think he is going to be able to tell how lethal an arrow is before even taking a hit from it once. Not to mention he would try tanking it at first.


These links prove absolutely nothing. Nowhere does it say it has to be willingly. And of course Sakura did it willingly because it was Naruto, but that's just one example of breaking genjutsu. Most cases are like this because your helping someone get out of the gen. So I'm still going with the "contact" way described everywhere :)

To bad it doesn't work that way. The point of dispelling a genjutsu that way is to disrupt chakra flow. Just touching something/somebody wouldn't disrupt chakra flow. I found the link I was looking for :)

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/10/

^Jiraiya clearly states, somebody has to be touching them and placing their chakra into theirs. Meaning, even if Kenpachi is touching his zanpaktou if it doesn't insert chakra into him to disrupt the flow, Kenpachi is screwed.


Is this before or after he uses all his gen, chidori variants, hawk summon, and kirin just to create an opening..... Like I said we already saw Sasuke fight someone with Ken's mindset and Sasuke was defeated (bailed out by Gaara). Kenpachi is much stronger and faster than the Raikage. All Ken has to do is blitz him with both his speed and strength. Sasuke ccan come up with little tricks, but at the end of the day if he can't really wound his opponent, he has no chance.

Well seeing as we have proven that Sasuke can cast a genjutsu and Kenpachi as no way out, it won't take that much. With a genjutsu that Kenpachi is trapped in, Sasuke can then just have his way with Kenpachi as he won't be able to do anything about. However, even so, it has been shown that Sasuke isn't the type to start out light anymore. With his fight with Danzou, he went right into Susanoo and Amaterasu, so what is to stop him from playing this way against Kenpachi?

[WhiteFang]

Sorry for the delayed response. *is lazy*

The chakra = reiatsu equation dosen't take away from Kenpachi's strength. We have to consider his power feats in the Bleachverse and apply them here.
Well we do consider his strength of course; but we equally have to consider Sasuke's strength as shown in the Narutoverse and it has shown to be significant (not physical strength, his jutsu, like Susano'o)


Agreed, but all we can do is speculate on how he would react.

Yes. However, I'll still say that tanking attacks is a very natural reaction for Kenpachi.


These are complete different situations though. Naruto and the Kyuubi are united and have the same chakra flow. When Naruto uses the Kyuubi's chakra it flows through his chakra system meaning they are integrated. And the Kyuubi always wants Naruto to use his chakra because he wants Naruto to lose control and break the seal. It's completely different from Kenpachi and his Zan who are completely separate chakra systems. And I've never heard that the contact between chakra's had to be willingly. All I've heard is if another chakra source comes in contact with the person, the genjutsu is broken.

Plus don't think Sasuke can even handle the chakra surge by Kenpachi when he has his eye-patch off.

Well, Kuro's links disprove the "contact only" theory. There is a difference between contact and forceful insertion for cancellation. And unraveling a genjutsu requires the latter.
Just think about it; you have to disrupt the opponent's chakra flow; that requires a conscious effort. Simple contact won't cut it.

The chakra surge won't happen, imo. Simply because Sasuke will notice the extensive chakra behind the eye-patch, courtesy sharingan. And he'll ensure that it isn't used against him. In a worst case scenario, he can use Susano'o to deal with it.

But I seriously doubt it'll go that far. Kenpachi will be left hapless by genjutsu, which will tilt the battle heavily in Sasuke's favor.



How long do you think Sasuke can spam jutsu though? He has no chance against Kenpachi because three techs and his fighting ability is crippled. And it's not only Ichigo's Zangetsu that couldn't penetrate him, but we also saw the same thing when he fought Nnoitra which was on a complete different level then the Ichigo he fought. He was taking blows straight on like nothing. I think your underestimating Kenpachi’s body and his ability to take damage. And let's not forget, Sasuke was defeated by the Raikage and it was Gaara who bailed him out.

No, not really. He won't be reduced to just three moves. A fully healthy Sasuke can use atleast a coupla shots of Amaterasu and Susano'o for a little while + some ninjutsu (check his battle against Raikage). Add to this the fact that with Amaterasu burning, regardless of whether or not it hits Kenpachi; it'll help heat the atmosphere. Now Sasuke on a hawk summon can have a good chance of pulling off the fire dragons un-inhibited from the air, and consequently use the mountain leveler Kirin. Even Kenpachi can't survive that.
That aside, I think you're underestimating the chidori-enhanced Kusanagi here. You see, the Kusanagi itself is almost sharp enough to damage diamonds, at to this the further enhancing due to chidori. Don't confuse raw power with penetrating power. The former doesn't influence the latter until and unless you are talking of massive-explosion like power which simply blows things to bits. Think of it like a hammer and knife. Even applying a lot of power/force with the former will lead to broken bones but hardly any cuts. Even a little pressure with a knife though, will be sure to cause a bleeding wound.


Ahh I'm so sorry, didn't mean to spoil xD

Susanoo's arrows are made of chakra, they can be deflected or dodged. Given the arrow travels at great speed, but judging by the speed displayed by Kenpachi he can dodge this. And if Danzou can react to the arrow and use Izenagi to counter it, I'm certain Kenpachi can react and dodge it or react and deflect it considering his strength with the sword.
Tsukiyomi only last a few seconds and Sasuke is manipulating the brain's chakra flow. I really don't think he can pull off a kusanagi at the same time. Not enough time and we've never seen it done before. Also in order for this to affect Kenpachi, hypothetically, he would have to be damaged mentally by the few seconds of "torture" from Sasuke's version of Tsukuyomi which lacks the key factor that makes this genjutsu effective... time perception.

Oh, don't be. It's my fault for being silly enough to debate in a manga section without reading the manga in it's entirety. xD

As for the arrows.. do we have any proof they're made of chakra? Because the items on Itachi's Susano'o were ethereal. These things aren't susceptible to regular jutsu. Consider it something like Nagato's big soul-sucking ethereal dragon.

Why does he necessarily need to use Tsukuyomi? In principle, a sharingan genjutsu is also liable to work on Kenpachi. Because as I've illustrated in the links given by Kuro; Kenpachi doesn't have what it takes to deal with genjutsu.
Genjutsu warps your perception of reality itself. If Kenpachi has never faced it before, he will have some after affects which will allow Sasuke to get an advantage and chip in a counter-attack. The best option would be to use a paralyzing genjutsu like he did on Oro.



Like I said earlier, I always thought you just needed to come into contact with another chakra source. And all the sources I've read never mention the fact that the chakra has to be forced in. But since these sources aren't manga I can't say I'm right for a fact. Where can I find this in the manga?

Well, Kuro got it for you.


I really don't consider cutting one of the hachibi's tentacles that big of a feat, especially after this fight with SM Naruto and the Kyuubi. No doubt he can cut him, but theres a big difference between cutting hima and hurting him. Kenpachi was getting butchered by Nnoitra sword and was laughing. And once again Sasuke has to choose what techniques to use on Kenpachi. We have thrown out all of Sasuke's arsenal and still have question on whether or not they can effect Kenpachi on a major scale. The truth is he can't use all of these because he's limited and Kenpachi would feast on this weakness.
Right now, a major disadvantage Kenpachi has is genjutsu. So that's just one, small part of Sasuke's arsenal. (Let's not forget he's very adept at it and it's not too chakra-expansive either) Then there's chakra guzzlers Amaterasu and Susano'o, and we aren't even saying Sasuke spams then. Amaterasu has a high chance of being fatal/extremely damaging for Ken in the first shot, given his habit of tanking attacks. Even if it misses, given the planner he is, Sasuke can always exploit it for the Kirin scenario. Then there's the aerial advantage with the hawks. And finally there's Susano'o, which we know Sasuke kept up for a good ten minutes against Danzou. Ken has nothing even remotely the level of Izanagi/Kamui to handle such an onslaught.
We've considered Sasuke's usual arsenal and fighting tendencies and that's what we're basing the result on.


But the Raikage also had Sasuke at his mercy and was held back by Gaara.

Oh, c'mon. You'll see on that page that Sasuke's Amaterasu was also up in spikes above him. It would've surely burnt Raikage to nothing had he connected; though I agree that the force of his blow would've probably killed Sasuke too; resulting in a draw.


Kakashi didn't block the arrow because he couldn't, but there's an enormous difference between Kenpachi and Kakashi.

Lol, true. I'll give you that. xD


Amaterasu is the only thing Kakashi needs to be aware of and we already saw someone with Kenpachi's attitude take on Sasuke and the results were in his favor. Yeah he probably would have died due to the loss of blood. but not before taking out Sasuke first.
You mean Kenpachi, right? xDDD
Yes, a draw would've been the logical conclusion that fight. But let's not forget that circumstances are now different. Sasuke's Susano'o is better than what it was back then and he's at full strength, fighting Kenpachi only; not attacking an entire summit.

[Dreamer]

A few chakra arrows? Did you not see what just one of those arrows could do? If not, let me show you :)

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/478/11/

^Might wanna go back a page first :lol:




Did you really forget who Kenpachi is and what makes him him??? Thats is nothing compared to the attacks Ken takes head on. The Bleachverse attacks are much more potent than that.


Sasuke isn't stupid though, as soon as he realized he was outmatched in speed and power he would either go into Susanoo, or take to the sky on the hawk summoning. Either way, once there Kenpachi can't get to him.
Whats your point? This strategy only works if Sasuke has an advantage on Kenpachi which he doesn't. At some point he's gonna have to attack Ken ans whatever he does is useless.


True, but Kenpachi didn't start blocking or anything until he realized how lethal it was. Do you really think he is going to be able to tell how lethal an arrow is before even taking a hit from it once. Not to mention he would try tanking it at first.


I can almost guarantee that arrow does minimal damage to Ken. Judging by the destruction in those panels the attacks Ken takes are far worse.


To bad it doesn't work that way. The point of dispelling a genjutsu that way is to disrupt chakra flow. Just touching something/somebody wouldn't disrupt chakra flow. I found the link I was looking for :)

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/259/10/

^Jiraiya clearly states, somebody has to be touching them and placing their chakra into theirs. Meaning, even if Kenpachi is touching his zanpaktou if it doesn't insert chakra into him to disrupt the flow, Kenpachi is screwed.


Good link. It does clearly state that one must insert their chackra to break the gen. + rep.

Regardless, Sasuke's genjutsu is ineffective against Ken because Sasukes attacks aren't potent enough to fatally wound him. And Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is a joke compared to Itachi's... hell, Danzou survived it and mocked it.


Well seeing as we have proven that Sasuke can cast a genjutsu and Kenpachi as no way out, it won't take that much. With a genjutsu that Kenpachi is trapped in, Sasuke can then just have his way with Kenpachi as he won't be able to do anything about. However, even so, it has been shown that Sasuke isn't the type to start out light anymore. With his fight with Danzou, he went right into Susanoo and Amaterasu, so what is to stop him from playing this way against Kenpachi?


Do you really think Sasuke can spam genjutsu the entire fight while using Susanoo and Amaterau? You seriously are forgetting Sasuke's biggest weakness. Especially when he's using all these MS techs.....


Well we do consider his strength of course; but we equally have to consider Sasuke's strength as shown in the Narutoverse and it has shown to be significant (not physical strength, his jutsu, like Susano'o)

Significant in the Narutoverse, yes. But compared to someone like Ken it's not all that impressive. Do you really think Ken can't break through Susanoo???


No, not really. He won't be reduced to just three moves. A fully healthy Sasuke can use atleast a coupla shots of Amaterasu and Susano'o for a little while + some ninjutsu (check his battle against Raikage). Add to this the fact that with Amaterasu burning, regardless of whether or not it hits Kenpachi; it'll help heat the atmosphere. Now Sasuke on a hawk summon can have a good chance of pulling off the fire dragons un-inhibited from the air, and consequently use the mountain leveler Kirin. Even Kenpachi can't survive that.
That aside, I think you're underestimating the chidori-enhanced Kusanagi here. You see, the Kusanagi itself is almost sharp enough to damage diamonds, at to this the further enhancing due to chidori. Don't confuse raw power with penetrating power. The former doesn't influence the latter until and unless you are talking of massive-explosion like power which simply blows things to bits. Think of it like a hammer and knife. Even applying a lot of power/force with the former will lead to broken bones but hardly any cuts. Even a little pressure with a knife though, will be sure to cause a bleeding wound.


Sasuke has to use his most effective techs right off the bat and that drains his chakra enormously. I was exaggerating when I said 3 techs and done to illustrate my point that Sasuke's stamina is average at best, while Ken's is extraordinary.

Since the way they act in battle is such a big factor in this encounter, we should bring up the fact that Kenpachi would charge at Sasuke immediately. Sasuke isn't fast enough or powerful enough to counter Ken's strikes. Sasuke's chidori variants are powerful, but once again Ken's specialty is his ability to take attacks.

In regards to Kirin we have only seen him use it once and he had plenty of time to prepare a strategy. And we don't know for sure how Amaterasu's flames react in terms of its atmospheric effect. We really don't know if those flames can heat up the atmosphere enough to prepare the conditions for Kirin. And we have never seen Sasuke do this to begin with.


Right now, a major disadvantage Kenpachi has is genjutsu. So that's just one, small part of Sasuke's arsenal. (Let's not forget he's very adept at it and it's not too chakra-expansive either) Then there's chakra guzzlers Amaterasu and Susano'o, and we aren't even saying Sasuke spams then. Amaterasu has a high chance of being fatal/extremely damaging for Ken in the first shot, given his habit of tanking attacks. Even if it misses, given the planner he is, Sasuke can always exploit it for the Kirin scenario. Then there's the aerial advantage with the hawks. And finally there's Susano'o, which we know Sasuke kept up for a good ten minutes against Danzou. Ken has nothing even remotely the level of Izanagi/Kamui to handle such an onslaught.
We've considered Sasuke's usual arsenal and fighting tendencies and that's what we're basing the result on.



Ken is much stronger than anything Sasuke has faced. Their power levels aren't even comparable. The only attacks that can affect Ken are Amaterasu (if he tanks it) and Kirin, which Sasuke has only used once where he had premeditated his strategy.


Oh, c'mon. You'll see on that page that Sasuke's Amaterasu was also up in spikes above him. It would've surely burnt Raikage to nothing had he connected; though I agree that the force of his blow would've probably killed Sasuke too; resulting in a draw.

Sasuke was done in that battle. And it's basically the same battle as this one except Ken is a much more worthy opponent. Genjutsu wasn't a problem and it wouldn't be in this fight either. You guys are overrating his genjutsu a bit.


Yes, a draw would've been the logical conclusion that fight. But let's not forget that circumstances are now different. Sasuke's Susano'o is better than what it was back then and he's at full strength, fighting Kenpachi only; not attacking an entire summit.

True, but his opponent isn't the Raikage its Kenpachi..... HUGE difference.

[Kuro Nagashi]

Did you really forget who Kenpachi is and what makes him him??? Thats is nothing compared to the attacks Ken takes head on. The Bleachverse attacks are much more potent than that.


What did Kenpachi take head on that is more potent then that? He was getting slashed up by Ichigo's zanpaktou not in bankai left and right and being cut by it. That arrow can do much more than one of Ichigo's petty shikai slashes.


Whats your point? This strategy only works if Sasuke has an advantage on Kenpachi which he doesn't. At some point he's gonna have to attack Ken ans whatever he does is useless.


Sasuke does have an advantage over Kenpachi. Genjutsu, Kenpachi can't break it he has no way to. Like Fang said he could just use a paralyzing genjutsu and then destroy Kenpachi from there.


I can almost guarantee that arrow does minimal damage to Ken. Judging by the destruction in those panels the attacks Ken takes are far worse.

Such as? The stuff he took from Ichigo wasn't much worse than what that arrow could do. So why wouldn't it do a fair amount of damage to Kenpachi?



Good link. It does clearly state that one must insert their chackra to break the gen. + rep.

Regardless, Sasuke's genjutsu is ineffective against Ken because Sasukes attacks aren't potent enough to fatally wound him. And Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is a joke compared to Itachi's... hell, Danzou survived it and mocked it.


Thanks. :)

Genjutsu isn't meant to fatally wound. As long as Sasuke can catch Kenpachi in one and paralyze him from there, it's over for Kenpachi. Heck, he could just use Jubaku Satsu and then come at Kenpachi with the chidori Kusangi.


Do you really think Sasuke can spam genjutsu the entire fight while using Susanoo and Amaterau? You seriously are forgetting Sasuke's biggest weakness. Especially when he's using all these MS techs.....

Who says it has to be the entire fight? Kenpachi doesn't know what a genjutsu is, meaning he wouldn't be prepared for it and one genjutsu seals it for Kenpachi. Plus, he wouldn't start the MS spam until he thought he needed them.