Troll Rating Thread #1 - Revival of Konoha

[Pokeaotics]

We all remember it, the infamous moment when Naruto suddenly showed the light to Nagato and he revived everyone from Konoha, including our favourite character, Kakashi. How big of a troll was this event? 1= least troll 10 = most troll.

[Dreamer]

LMAO! This is a brilliant thread idea :lol:

Enormous trolling, but hey I'm not complaining we did get Kakashi back ;)

Hits 8 on the troll meter for me.

[Mattus]

This is a 10.

[Pokeaotics]

I know that Seth will go on about how Nagato was never really evil, just a misguided soul, so this action made sense for him, but I don't agree. I think he was a great villain that was just plain trolled at the end because Kishi regretted killing off his favourite character.
Nine for me.

[Toastykins]

I never saw it as much of a troll at all. I've explained why multiple times in the past, and refuse to reiterate why for the umpteenth time...

[Mattus]

-does not understand-

I don't understand how this could not be interpreted as a troll. One of, if not the most evil person we've come across gets turned around in like a minute or two of talking to some random kid and then suddenly does a technique that conveniently revives everyone in the village and kills himself. This was without a doubt the laziest thing Kishimoto has ever done. This arc was a complete waste of time.

[Toastykins]

>Implying he was evil.

That's why everybody sees it as a troll. What's more, it was already known at that point, IIRC, that the Rinnegan had control over Life and Death and other such forces. So massive revival wasn't out of the question in my mind. If anything, the ending was too expected...

[Mattus]

>Implying he was evil.

That's why everybody sees it as a troll. What's more, it was already known at that point, IIRC, that the Rinnegan had control over Life and Death and other such forces. So massive revival wasn't out of the question in my mind. If anything, the ending was too expected...

He was without a doubt evil. It's not like Anikan where he was only doing bad things because he wanted to save his wife. Nagato had a vision and it got twisted and ended up using one of the two people he wanted to save as a puppet.

That might have been stated but that doesn't excuse the fact that Kishi revived everyone that he spent 20 chapters killing. It was a waste of time and an insult to everyone who read it.

[Toastykins]

No, he was not evil. He was a lot like Anikan. Who later carried on down the path of Sidious' puppet, Darth Vader.

No it wasn't. The only insult was bringing Shizune back. I liked her better when she was dead.

[Dreamer]

Instant mind change through TnJ after he had grown up infatuated with revenge + revival of the entire village is troll work even if Nagato was good deep-down and had the ability to potentially do it.

[Jαckums]

I agree with Seth.

I don't see the troll, despite thinking Naruto's power to turn villains good through speech is one of the dumbest things in the manga. But due to it having been constant since the beginning, it's not classified a "troll" at all. It'd only be so if he'd never done it before, but he has, multiple times over.


I don't understand how this could not be interpreted as a troll. One of, if not the most evil person we've come across gets turned around in like a minute or two of talking to some random kid and then suddenly does a technique that conveniently revives everyone in the village and kills himself. This was without a doubt the laziest thing Kishimoto has ever done. This arc was a complete waste of time.

It had been clarified long before that point that Gedo Mazo was a summon based around the extraction of souls. It wasn't sudden at all. If it can remove souls, it's completely plausible that it can return them, too.

[Mattus]

No, he was not evil. He was a lot like Anikan. Who later carried on down the path of Sidious' puppet, Darth Vader.

No it wasn't. The only insult was bringing Shizune back. I liked her better when she was dead.

Anikan was evil. Key word, was. It is undeniable during the ending of RotS that he was evil. Throughout the first two movies of the original trilogy even. However he was turned back by the sight of his master killing his son. He was evil. He turned back.
Nagato was evil. He turned back.

The only difference between the two is Anikan turned at the sight of his son about to be killed and Nagato turned at the sight of a whining teenager.

[Dreamer]

Instant mind change through TnJ after he had grown up infatuated with revenge + revival of the entire village is troll work even if Nagato was good deep-down and had the ability to potentially do it.

That being said, Nagato wasn't evil. He was just blinded by revenge. True evil is Sasuke being able to stab Karin and attempt to kill Sakura without the slight hesitation. Nagato, on the other hand, valued Konan and the people of the rain. He was just caught in a cycle of revenge against those who caused him pain.

[Mattus]

I agree with Seth.

I don't see the troll, despite thinking Naruto's power to turn villains good through speech is one of the dumbest things in the manga. But due to it having been constant since the beginning, it's not classified a "troll" at all. It'd only be so if he'd never done it before, but he has, multiple times over.

Not on this level. Not even close to this level. I don't think people have even mentioned Naruto's power boost yet.


It had been clarified long before that point that Gedo Mazo was a summon based around the extraction of souls. It wasn't sudden at all. If it can remove souls, it's completely plausible that it can return them, too.

Doesn't mean it isn't a troll, even if he justified it. He wasted his time and our time by showing us several chapter long fights that were meaningless.

[Dreamer]

I don't see the troll, despite thinking Naruto's power to turn villains good through speech is one of the dumbest things in the manga. But due to it having been constant since the beginning, it's not classified a "troll" at all. It'd only be so if he'd never done it before, but he has, multiple times over.Why can't it be a troll even if its happened before? Has it hit you we've been trolled since the beginning with Naruto's TnJ?

It's like the SM training and the shadow clone training that harnesses all the work of the clones into Naruto. Those are trolls as well, but we let them go because they're logical in a way.

[Jαckums]

@Dreamer: It's not a troll if it's been solidified as one of Naruto's "talents" since the beginning of the series. It can easily be explained logically as Naruto just possessing extreme persuasive ability.


Not on this level. Not even close to this level. I don't think people have even mentioned Naruto's power boost yet.

Gaara was literally insane. Nagato's mental state was just of false perspective. They're not even comparable. Naruto's win over Gaara was far above his convincing of Nagato, who had the mental capacity to see reason and wasn't under the constant mental torture of a bijuu.


Doesn't mean it isn't a troll, even if he justified it. He wasted his time and our time by showing us several chapter long fights that were meaningless.

Then everyone in the village just running would have been the more suitable alternative?

Them winning against the paths and not dying in the first place is out of the question, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have been able to showcase Naruto's Sage Mode to the extent he did.

[Mattus]

@Dreamer: It's not a troll if it's been solidified as one of Naruto's "talents" since the beginning of the series. It can easily be explained logically as Naruto just possessing extreme persuasive ability.

Yes but he doesn't unless every Naruto character is a dumbass. He isn't persuasive and he isn't convincing. When Colin Firth starts writing Naruto's lines, then maybe I'll take back what I said.


Gaara was literally insane. Nagato's mental state was just of false perspective. They're not even comparable. Naruto's win over Gaara was far above his convincing of Nagato, who had the mental capacity to see reason and wasn't under the constant mental torture of a bijuu.

That's why I didn't compare them? :confused:
Gaara was insane for different reasons. Nagato was in the position he was in because of himself. Gaara did nothing to himself, Nagato did everything to himself.


Then everyone in the village just running would have been the more suitable alternative?

Kakashi and Shizune dying would have been.

AKA - When I say two of my all time favorite characters should have died instead of live, you know Kishi fucked up.


Them winning against the paths and not dying in the first place is out of the question, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have been able to showcase Naruto's Sage Mode to the extent he did.

GOOD! Naruto's Sage Mode was horse shit! He shows up, is suddenly almost as fast as FTG and stronger than literally everyone in the world after a few days/weeks? That's more bull than the time chamber.

[Jαckums]

GOOD! Naruto's Sage Mode was horse shit! He shows up, is suddenly almost as fast as FTG and stronger than literally everyone in the world after a few days/weeks? That's more bull than the time chamber.

I think majority of Naruto's wins have been bullshit. If anything, Naruto is Kishi's tool for trolling.

But Naruto's SM is irrelevant to the thread's question, so I didn't include it in my conclusion.

[Mattus]

I think majority of Naruto's wins have been bullshit. If anything, Naruto is Kishi's tool for trolling.

But Naruto's SM is irrelevant to the thread's question, so I didn't include it in my conclusion.

That's why it wasn't mentioned xD I just assumed it included all of that arc for some reason.

[Toastykins]

Anikan was evil. Key word, was. It is undeniable during the ending of RotS that he was evil. Throughout the first two movies of the original trilogy even. However he was turned back by the sight of his master killing his son. He was evil. He turned back.
Nagato was evil. He turned back.

The only difference between the two is Anikan turned at the sight of his son about to be killed and Nagato turned at the sight of a whining teenager.

Nagato as Pain was still "good" in his own eyes. He was still fighting for peace much like Naruto, but his methods were different. He came to the conclusion that the only way humanity would learn from its mistakes was through war and annihilation, so he set out to cause just that on such a scale that humanity would be forced out of fear into an era of peace, however short or false.

Nagato thought there was no other way to achieve peace but through this method. But if you look at his character, that's not Nagato. The killing of countless innocents is as foreign a concept for Nagato's character as Naruto's. When this kid comes around taught by the same guy who basically saved Nagato's life, and even despite all the things Nagato has done and all the things he's seen he *still* isn't wavering from his position - the position Nagato himself once had - it gave him hope. Hope that maybe he was wrong, and Naruto could do what he couldn't - achieve peace.

So Nagato sacrificed what was left of his life and turned it into chakra to bring back the countless shinobi and civilians he killed in Konoha as a sort of 'penance', I guess one could call it, then left things in Naruto's hands.

When you realize that Nagato was never evil and actually look at his character as it was painted by Kishi - that of a shy boy who just wanted to protect his friends, who'd experienced war and was terrified by the concept of facing another - it isn't as much of a "troll" as it is an action one would expect from Nagato when faced with one as determined and unwavering as Naruto.

For somebody who was truly evil, who didn't regret a damn thing they did, who just wanted destruction (like Madara or Orochimaru), that corny speech wouldn't have worked, and if it did, THEN it would be a troll. But the similarities between himself and Naruto and Nagato's sense of justice make it a forgivable act. For that reason, I can't see another possible ending to the Pain arc. I rather liked how it ended. I felt as thought it fit.

[cursedneji18]

10/10 this was complete trash!

why is it with every revenge plot the person either goes after the wrong person, sasuke or blames a whole group for the acts of a few, nagato? if they actually went after the right person from the beginning and only them would they be considered bad?

[Mattus]

Nagato as Pain was still "good" in his own eyes. He was still fighting for peace much like Naruto, but his methods were different. He came to the conclusion that the only way humanity would learn from its mistakes was through war and annihilation, so he set out to cause just that on such a scale that humanity would be forced out of fear into an era of peace, however short or false.

So he was carrying out a good mission through harsh and merciless methods. Okay. That's like saying I don't want to see you in pain so if you stub your toe I'll shoot you in the head. Yeah, it technically achieves what I set out to do but in an incredibly unnecessary matter.


So Nagato sacrificed what was left of his life and turned it into chakra to bring back the countless shinobi and civilians he killed in Konoha as a sort of 'penance', I guess one could call it, then left things in Naruto's hands.

Aka - Bull.


When you realize that Nagato was never evil and actually look at his character as it was painted by Kishi - that of a shy boy who just wanted to protect his friends, who'd experienced war and was terrified by the concept of facing another - it isn't as much of a "troll" as it is an action one would expect from Nagato when faced with one as determined and unwavering as Naruto.

What you just said is in fact a bigger troll than we think. It's a troll that was explained and shown to us yet the more hopeful of us hoped it wouldn't be true.
I'm sorry, we aren't all 12. We don't need happy endings to be painted for us and if they have to be they should at least be painted well, not by someone with the artistic ability of Pee-Wee while being chased by a midget with a saw riding a tiger.


For somebody who was truly evil, who didn't regret a damn thing they did, who just wanted destruction (like Madara or Orochimaru), that corny speech wouldn't have worked, and if it did, THEN it would be a troll. But the similarities between himself and Naruto and Nagato's sense of justice make it a forgivable act. For that reason, I can't see another possible ending to the Pain arc. I rather liked how it ended. I felt as thought it fit.

It fit only because Kishi's creativity and writing ability is that of a writer from Full House.

[Toastykins]

You forget the manga's target audience *is* 12, don't you?

[Dreamer]

It fit only because Kishi's creativity and writing ability is that of a writer from Full House.
Jeff Franklin is offended.


You forget the manga's target audience *is* 12, don't you?
That's not the target age.

[Toastykins]

More or less. It's Shonen, guys. Don't take it too seriously or expect too much out of it.

[cursedneji18]

It fit only because Kishi's creativity and writing ability is that of a writer from Full House.

omfg! joey is naruto and jesse is sasuke :xd:.


That's not the target age.

agreed. if it was they wouldnt cut so much for the dubbed airing when they already censor stuff in the subbed that was in the manga like changing "dont fuck with the raikage bitch!" to "dont mess with the raikage".

[Toastykins]

Different cultures, different standards. Far as I can tell, such things are commonplace over in Japan.

[Dreamer]

Naruto has evolved with its audience though. Kishi wouldn't sacrifice the fans he already has.

[Toastykins]

It's still Shonen, isn't it?

[Dreamer]

With dark themes and an evolving story, but yes still shounen.

This is a long series. It has to adapt unlike these short 1 year shounen series'. It's been 12 years since its launch. A 12 year-old boy would be 24 right now. Kishi had no choice but to make it a lot more mature and we see that in part 2.

[cursedneji18]

Different cultures, different standards. Far as I can tell, such things are commonplace over in Japan.

what i meant is disney xd which it airs is for 12-14 yr. olds. if the manga was already for 12 years olds why would they have the usual edit of censoring some stuff from the manga then another for u.s. broadcast. and from what i hear japans censoring laws are more strict then ours when it airs on japanese television.

[Pokeaotics]

^No. It's quite the opposite actually, but that's off topic.
Naruto is no longer aimed at 12 year olds, but it's certainly not aimed at 24 year olds. I think Kishi tries to appeal to everyone, but that doesn't make this troll any less serious.

[WhiteFang]

I know that Seth will go on about how Nagato was never really evil, just a misguided soul, so this action made sense for him, but I don't agree. I think he was a great villain that was just plain trolled at the end because Kishi regretted killing off his favourite character.
Nine for me.
Which is why we all shouldn't be complaining right? =D But yes, it only gets a point lobbed off because it's resultant was an alive and breathing Copy-nin.

The rest is gravy anyway. :p


He was without a doubt evil. It's not like Anikan where he was only doing bad things because he wanted to save his wife. Nagato had a vision and it got twisted and ended up using one of the two people he wanted to save as a puppet.

That might have been stated but that doesn't excuse the fact that Kishi revived everyone that he spent 20 chapters killing. It was a waste of time and an insult to everyone who read it.
Majin I think Nagato and Anikan are just a bad comparison. Anikan did what he did for a purely selfish self-driven goal. I mean he was all "me and my new empire". Nagato, as twisted as he was looking at world welfare as a whole and not looking to save his own family or rule the shinobi-land. He wanted peace as a whole, Anikan wanted to have an Empire and his beloved Padme by his side.


Nagato as Pain was still "good" in his own eyes. He was still fighting for peace much like Naruto, but his methods were different. He came to the conclusion that the only way humanity would learn from its mistakes was through war and annihilation, so he set out to cause just that on such a scale that humanity would be forced out of fear into an era of peace, however short or false.

Nagato thought there was no other way to achieve peace but through this method. But if you look at his character, that's not Nagato. The killing of countless innocents is as foreign a concept for Nagato's character as Naruto's. When this kid comes around taught by the same guy who basically saved Nagato's life, and even despite all the things Nagato has done and all the things he's seen he *still* isn't wavering from his position - the position Nagato himself once had - it gave him hope. Hope that maybe he was wrong, and Naruto could do what he couldn't - achieve peace.

So Nagato sacrificed what was left of his life and turned it into chakra to bring back the countless shinobi and civilians he killed in Konoha as a sort of 'penance', I guess one could call it, then left things in Naruto's hands.

When you realize that Nagato was never evil and actually look at his character as it was painted by Kishi - that of a shy boy who just wanted to protect his friends, who'd experienced war and was terrified by the concept of facing another - it isn't as much of a "troll" as it is an action one would expect from Nagato when faced with one as determined and unwavering as Naruto.

For somebody who was truly evil, who didn't regret a damn thing they did, who just wanted destruction (like Madara or Orochimaru), that corny speech wouldn't have worked, and if it did, THEN it would be a troll. But the similarities between himself and Naruto and Nagato's sense of justice make it a forgivable act. For that reason, I can't see another possible ending to the Pain arc. I rather liked how it ended. I felt as thought it fit.
I don't know but part of me, in all honesty, is very agreeable with this post. Besides, in a shonen manga, the entire "goodness" factor isn't an unheard of phenomenon. That's what a vast majority of shonen leads are all about and equivalently Naruto is as well. TnJ is a specialty.

As far as I'm concerned, Nagato was one of the very few successful "twisted" villains, though I do have to agree that the ending could've been much more convincing than Naruto with TnJ and a book.


So he was carrying out a good mission through harsh and merciless methods. Okay. That's like saying I don't want to see you in pain so if you stub your toe I'll shoot you in the head. Yeah, it technically achieves what I set out to do but in an incredibly unnecessary matter.
:lmao:

But yes, more seriously, I do agree with what you're saying; but that's the entire point of Nagato. He is twisted in his thinking and became that way because of whatever he went through. Taking your example, it would be like you've been hurting yourself so many damn times and putting everyone including yourself through so much physical and mental trauma that the only legitimate option you leave me with is "You fucking hurt yourself again and I'm shooting you." It is strange and idiotic but in a broader sense I do realize humans and their repeated stupidities can drive you to that point of utter frustration and hopelessness - you're quite literally forced to go crazy if you actually think of all ills of the world and want to fix them. But the key here is force. He forced himself to become that way, doesn't mean who he is that way naturally. Those are Orochimaru and Madara - wired that way naturally - all destructive and controlling and power hungry.



Aka - Bull.
I mean, Matthew, you shouldn't be so cynical and pessimistic. :p There is good in the world.


What you just said is in fact a bigger troll than we think. It's a troll that was explained and shown to us yet the more hopeful of us hoped it wouldn't be true.
I'm sorry, we aren't all 12. We don't need happy endings to be painted for us and if they have to be they should at least be painted well, not by someone with the artistic ability of Pee-Wee while being chased by a midget with a saw riding a tiger.
:lmao:
Gosh man, just love the way you phrase stuff.


With dark themes and an evolving story, but yes still shounen.

This is a long series. It has to adapt unlike these short 1 year shounen series'. It's been 12 years since its launch. A 12 year-old boy would be 24 right now. Kishi had no choice but to make it a lot more mature and we see that in part 2.

It does have it's maturity; but I don't think Kishi will ever divert from the inherent message of the manga about the power of true friendship, love, goodness and all that nicies. It is what Naruto is all about, basically. And whatever the audience, I do believe it shouldn't change. I like it personally. Not always a fan of the cheesiness but all in all I am for it. I like who Naruto's become. He's a very solid guy now with ideals and everything - he's powerful yet humble and he's all in all a very good person which is what counts most. Or should anyway.

[Mattus]

You forget the manga's target audience *is* 12, don't you?

Was 12. If we're assuming he is maturing with his audience, the target age is about 20 now. I'd say it's in the 12-24 category. Which happens to be the age group on this site.


[COLOR=sienna]Jeff Franklin is offended.

Right back at'cha Jeff.
~Sincerely,
Every child born after 1981.


More or less. It's Shonen, guys. Don't take it too seriously or expect too much out of it.

We're just spoiled from One Piece. And I'm bitter because there is nothing as good as Cowboy Bebop, FMA, s-CRY-ed, etc...

[Dreamer]

We're just spoiled from One Piece.
True words are true.