Character Rating Thread #27 - Tobirama

[Mattus]

Onto the second hokage!

Sorry Jet xD

[Raikage's left hand]

Can't vote without a picture of said character.

[Pokeaotics]

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj193/otakucenter_com/naruto/2nd_hokage/2nd_hokage_005.jpg?t=1254877453

Anyway, 10/10. Perfect appearance, great abilities (that I wish we knew more of) and a great personality. I want a Gaiden. >w<

[Raikage's left hand]

How can you say he has a great personality? He's shown up for a grand total of what? 20 pages? Most of which he was a mindless tensei. He could be a raging alcholic and a wife beater for all we know :troll

But i think he's rad as fuck and probably my favourite hokage. Kishi should really explain why he created a technique as fucked up as Edo Tensei though.

7/10.

[Pokeaotics]

From what we saw in Danzou's flashbacks. He sacrificed himself, seems pretty cool to me. =P

[Raikage's left hand]

Bah, he probably just wanted to test his might. Alcoholics are crazy like that.

[Jαckums]

Best and most bamf Hokage to-date. Perfect ten.

[Mattus]

Best and most bamf Hokage to-date. Perfect ten.

How?
Tobirama is the best Hokage yet the only thing we've seen him do as Hokage is lead a mission into hostile territory and sacrifice himself.
The best Hokage, hands down, is Tsunade. If Tobirama was shown more though there is no doubt in my mind that he'd be the most badass.

[Raikage's left hand]

How?
Tobirama is the best Hokage yet the only thing we've seen him do as Hokage is lead a mission into hostile territory and sacrifice himself.

He also gave the Uchiha's a position of power as an olive branch.


The best Hokage, hands down, is Tsunade. If Tobirama was shown more though there is no doubt in my mind that he'd be the most badass.

Yes, because the best Hokage is the one who let a wanted criminal like Sasuke go free for years without doing anything about it and who let's Naruto do whatever he pleases. Tsunade's leadership and decision making are shit.

[Mattus]

He also gave the Uchiha's a position of power as an olive branch

I'm not even sure what this means.



Yes, because the best Hokage is the one who let a wanted criminal like Sasuke go free for years without doing anything about it and who let's Naruto do whatever he pleases. Tsunade's leadership and decision making are shit.

You're right, a good Hokage, meaning the three men who got themselves killed(because that's the making of a good Hokage, ignoring the fact that you are the backbone of the village and throwing yourself into danger), would have just rushed in to Orochimaru's cave and killed Orochimaru and Kabuto and taken Sasuke back. Despite Orochimaru being stronger than every ninja in Konoha. Despite Kabuto being able to defeat the vast majority of ninja in Konoha. No, you're right, Tsunade should have sent her great ninja on a suicide mission to retrieve a 16 year old punk.

Sasuke was a wanted criminal? I don't recall him being a criminal, I recall him being with a criminal.

Tsunade saved Konoha. Pe. Ri. Fucking. OD. Any other Hokage would have fought Pein and died. The village would have fallen. It's ninja and citizens would have died. Naruto defeated Pein but I believe it was Tsunade who authorized that training, something that the other Hokage would not have authorized. Raikage, as we can see, would have killed Naruto if he tried to fight Pein, despite being the only hope the village had. Tsunade let Naruto take on the man who came there to capture him. That is a damn good decision. Tsunade nearly killed herself using long range medical ninjutsu to heal the wounded citizens of the village. That is a damn good decision and something that no other Hokage would have or could have done. Bottom line, she's the smartest Hokage yet. Minato killed himself when the village was attacked. I believe Hashirama did the same. Tobirama did the same and the village wasn't in danger. Every Hokage that everyone considers good is only good because they kick ass, not because they are a smart and good leader. Tsunade picked up the pieces from one invasion and managed to survive another by prioritizing, not by attacking the invader. She let the most capable ninja do that and she did her job - protect the people.

[Jαckums]

How?
Tobirama is the best Hokage yet the only thing we've seen him do as Hokage is lead a mission into hostile territory and sacrifice himself.
The best Hokage, hands down, is Tsunade. If Tobirama was shown more though there is no doubt in my mind that he'd be the most badass.Best in the sense that I like him and my opinion is canon. :troll

[Raikage's left hand]

I'm not even sure what this means.

Made the Uchiha's the police in an attempt to ease tensions. Not much, but what do you expect from a character who's made less appearances than Ten-ten?


You're right, a good Hokage, meaning the three men who got themselves killed(because that's the making of a good Hokage, ignoring the fact that you are the backbone of the village and throwing yourself into danger), would have just rushed in to Orochimaru's cave and killed Orochimaru and Kabuto and taken Sasuke back. Despite Orochimaru being stronger than every ninja in Konoha. Despite Kabuto being able to defeat the vast majority of ninja in Konoha. No, you're right, Tsunade should have sent her great ninja on a suicide mission to retrieve a 16 year old punk.

Sasuke was a wanted criminal? I don't recall him being a criminal, I recall him being with a criminal.

So the other hokages aren't good hokages because...they died? Well based on that criteria you are absolutely correct. They were horrible leaders. Those selfish bastards, how dare they go and die! Don't they realize how ridiculous the notion of sacrifice is? I'm not sure if you're simply forgetting what the will of fire is or didn't understand it. The point was that they would all sacrifice themselves to ensure the survival of the next generation. All the past hokages had it.

The moment Sasuke left the village he was a missing nin and was therefore Konoha's responsibility to exterminate. That's the reason the Raikage was so pissed off at Konoha when he thought Sasuke killed Bee. Do you remember why Tsunade never tried to hunt him down? I'll remind you: because Naruto told her not to. It wasn't the fact they may have not been able to hunt him down it's the fact they did absolutely nothing. Konoha has ROOT, an ANBU division created specifically to hunt down missing nins. Remember what happened when Tsunade talked with Danzou? She looked down on his methods because he gave her the heebie jeebies regardless of the results he produced.


Tsunade saved Konoha. Pe. Ri. Fucking. OD. Any other Hokage would have fought Pein and died. The village would have fallen. It's ninja and citizens would have died. Naruto defeated Pein but I believe it was Tsunade who authorized that training, something that the other Hokage would not have authorized. Raikage, as we can see, would have killed Naruto if he tried to fight Pein, despite being the only hope the village had. Tsunade let Naruto take on the man who came there to capture him. That is a damn good decision. Tsunade nearly killed herself using long range medical ninjutsu to heal the wounded citizens of the village. That is a damn good decision and something that no other Hokage would have or could have done. Bottom line, she's the smartest Hokage yet. Minato killed himself when the village was attacked. I believe Hashirama did the same. Tobirama did the same and the village wasn't in danger. Every Hokage that everyone considers good is only good because they kick ass, not because they are a smart and good leader. Tsunade picked up the pieces from one invasion and managed to survive another by prioritizing, not by attacking the invader. She let the most capable ninja do that and she did her job - protect the people.

Saved Konoha? If she had any amount of common sense she wouldn't have pissed off Pain and left the village a hole in the ground. She healed people but that is useless when you are completely powerless to stop the person inflicting those injuries. She was mass-healing because that was all she could do. Had Naruto not came back due to the plot Pain would've wiped out every single person in the village and the hokage, the person meant to protect the village would've been powerless to stop him. The other hokages would've fought pain directly and protected lives all in a different way. It's debatable whether they would've lost to Pain or not. It's not like her approval mattered to Naruto's sage training because he would've just went anyway. I'm hoping you also remember that it was Tsunade who wanted to call back Naruto without even knowing how far along he was in his training. It would've been too bad if he was still learning to balance his chakra because he would've gotten seriously stomped.

So how would Tsunade have stopped the Kyuubi? Heal people until she runs out of chakra and it kills everyone anyway? Or maybe the Kyuubi is completely powerless infront of some rockin' tits. Minato stopped the Kyuubi and Madara attack completely but lost his life in the process. He ensured the survival of the next generation which is the most important thing, It was never stated how Hashirama died and what did you want Tobirama to do in his situation? Sacrifice the fatty instead? He had his replacement hokage ready and he was able to stall long enough to ensure his trainee's survived.

[Mattus]

Made the Uchiha's the police in an attempt to ease tensions. Not much, but what do you expect from a character who's made less appearances than Ten-ten?

Oh okay, then yes that is a very good thing.



So the other hokages aren't good hokages because...they died? Well based on that criteria you are absolutely correct. They were horrible leaders. Those selfish bastards, how dare they go and die! Don't they realize how ridiculous the notion of sacrifice is? I'm not sure if you're simply forgetting what the will of fire is or didn't understand it. The point was that they would all sacrifice themselves to ensure the survival of the next generation. All the past hokages had it.

No, the other Hokage's aren't good leaders because they sacrificed themselves when they did not have to(save for Hashirama, how did he die again?).
Sarutobi was there and was just as capable of using that technique as Minato was.
Tobirama was in a squad of THE BEST NINJA Konoha had and they were up against what sounded like fodder for high level ninja.

Tobirama did not die to protect anything but his team which had he let them fight with them, would have survived.


The moment Sasuke left the village he was a missing nin and was therefore Konoha's responsibility to exterminate. That's the reason the Raikage was so pissed off at Konoha when he thought Sasuke killed Bee. Do you remember why Tsunade never tried to hunt him down? I'll remind you: because Naruto told her not to. It wasn't the fact they may have not been able to hunt him down it's the fact they did absolutely nothing. Konoha has ROOT, an ANBU division created specifically to hunt down missing nins. Remember what happened when Tsunade talked with Danzou? She looked down on his methods because he gave her the heebie jeebies regardless of the results he produced.

Ok? And this makes her a terrible leader because she agreed to not waste her ninja's time tracking down a punk who ran off with two incredibly powerful ninja? I'm sorry, not seeing what makes this a bad thing.


I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade. I don't like Tsunade.

Sorry I fixed that for you.
She mass-healed everyone. If that was all she could do who gives a fuck? She still did what every other Hokage would have been unable to do. She saved more lives that anyone else could have, Hokage, ninja, missing-nin, whoever. If it was anyone other than Tsunade, countless more people would have died. Period.


Had Naruto not came back due to the plot Pain would've wiped out every single person in the village and the hokage, the person meant to protect the village would've been powerless to stop him. The other hokages would've fought pain directly and protected lives all in a different way. It's debatable whether they would've lost to Pain or not. It's not like her approval mattered to Naruto's sage training because he would've just went anyway.

Everyone else would have lost to Pain. Naruto, who was stronger than every other Hokage at that moment(due to plot) was unable to defeat Pain. No one else could have and they all would have died trying which was worse than what Tsunade did. Why? Because there would have been NO people, NO village, and NO leader to regroup. Tsunade at least kept almost everyone alive including herself(granted she did take herself out of commission for a bit) which is a hell of a lot more than any of the other Hokage could have done.

So how would Tsunade have stopped the Kyuubi? Heal people until she runs out of chakra and it kills everyone anyway? Or maybe the Kyuubi is completely powerless infront of some rockin' tits. Minato stopped the Kyuubi and Madara attack completely but lost his life in the process. He ensured the survival of the next generation which is the most important thing, It was never stated how Hashirama died and what did you want Tobirama to do in his situation? Sacrifice the fatty instead? He had his replacement hokage ready and he was able to stall long enough to ensure his trainee's survived.[/QUOTE]

[HeavenOnEarth]

The 2nd hokage is a badass one, at 1st we all thought he was the weakest.. But then we found out he actually did alot, he created Impure world Resurrection, was the 1st as far as we no to have S/T jutsu, was a sensor type, and of course he is arguably the greatest water release master to ever live.. So we do know he was a badass lol but Greatest hokage ? You cant really say that because we havent nearly seen enough of him, Tsunade is up there of course, Come to think of it we really cant say who the greatest is, from the 1st to the 5th they have all done there share and gave there lives for the village and people they love

[Raikage's left hand]

No, the other Hokage's aren't good leaders because they sacrificed themselves when they did not have to(save for Hashirama, how did he die again?).
Sarutobi was there and was just as capable of using that technique as Minato was.
Tobirama was in a squad of THE BEST NINJA Konoha had and they were up against what sounded like fodder for high level ninja.

Tobirama did not die to protect anything but his team which had he let them fight with them, would have survived.

Wait what? How didn't they need to die? Aside from hashirama (it's a mystery whatever happened to him) they were all in situations where lives were on the line.

Sarutobi didn't know Dead Demon Sealing and only learned it because he saw Minato do it there and then. Tobirama was in a squad being hunted down by Kumo elite, a team that probably consisting of 20 ninja's as powerful as A, Bee, Kakashi, Gai etc. They were obviously too much for them and the best Tobirama could do was hope to stall them so that his team could escape. Which he succeeded in doing. What if he stayed to fight and Danzou, Hiruzen and Tobirama all died? Would that have been a good decision? Who would be leader then? The Uchiha guy?


Ok? And this makes her a terrible leader because she agreed to not waste her ninja's time tracking down a punk who ran off with two incredibly powerful ninja? I'm sorry, not seeing what makes this a bad thing.

No, it makes her a bad leader because she expected Naruto to go out and find Sasuke and change his mind. Instead of doing the smart thing and trying to find and eventually eliminate Sasuke, she did nothing. ROOT don't tend to fight strong opponents directly. Sai did manage to infiltrate Orochimaru anyway and attempt to kill Sasuke but that was a mission organized by Danzou and not Tsunade.


Sorry I fixed that for you.
She mass-healed everyone. If that was all she could do who gives a fuck? She still did what every other Hokage would have been unable to do. She saved more lives that anyone else could have, Hokage, ninja, missing-nin, whoever. If it was anyone other than Tsunade, countless more people would have died. Period.

So because she did the only thing she could've done in the situation that makes her the GOAT Hokage? Don't be fucking retarded. She was completely out of her depth against Pain and was powerless to actually stop him until Naruto saved her ass. The other hokages weren't medics and they would've done what they were the best at: Be badass motherfuckers and kick the shit out of Pain's punk ass, saving lives in the process.

And what makes you think i don't like Tsunade? I like her just fine. She's just a shitty kage and should be relegated to medic leader.


Everyone else would have lost to Pain. Naruto, who was stronger than every other Hokage at that moment(due to plot) was unable to defeat Pain. No one else could have and they all would have died trying which was worse than what Tsunade did. Why? Because there would have been NO people, NO village, and NO leader to regroup. Tsunade at least kept almost everyone alive including herself(granted she did take herself out of commission for a bit) which is a hell of a lot more than any of the other Hokage could have done.

>Sage Naruto
>Stronger than Tobirama
>Stronger than Hashirama
>Stronger than Minato
>Stronger than Hiruzen

Oh you. So silly. Tsunade's a horrible leader who can't keep her village's Jinchuuriki under control and has failed at almost every opportunity to be a decent leader. Remember what happened in the most recent chapter? She completely backflipped on the wishes of the entire alliance to keep Naruto hidden because she believes in him. Great leadership right there. A true inspiration to the children.

[Mattus]

Sarutobi didn't know Dead Demon Sealing and only learned it because he saw Minato do it there and then.

Do you have any proof that Sarutobi learned this incredibly complicated sealing ninjutsu because he saw Minato do it?


Tobirama was in a squad being hunted down by Kumo elite, a team that probably consisting of 20 ninja's as powerful as A, Bee, Kakashi, Gai etc. They were obviously too much for them and the best Tobirama could do was hope to stall them so that his team could escape. Which he succeeded in doing. What if he stayed to fight and Danzou, Hiruzen and Tobirama all died? Would that have been a good decision? Who would be leader then? The Uchiha guy?

Danzou, Tobirama, and Hiruzen(the latter especially) are regarded are some of Konoha's greatest. There is no one as powerful as A or B that isn't A or B and if it was 20 ninja like Kakashi then Hiruzen in his prime could have taken care of them and made it back for lunch.


No, it makes her a bad leader because she expected Naruto to go out and find Sasuke and change his mind. Instead of doing the smart thing and trying to find and eventually eliminate Sasuke, she did nothing. ROOT don't tend to fight strong opponents directly. Sai did manage to infiltrate Orochimaru anyway and attempt to kill Sasuke but that was a mission organized by Danzou and not Tsunade.

Tsunade, the leader of the village, lost to Kabuto, Orochimaru's right hand man. There is not a ninja in Konoha that could defeat Orochimaru and I'm willing to bet Kabuto could take the majority of them as well. Sending a mission in there to retrieve someone who just wants to get stronger in order to kill another missing ninja would have been a waste of time and ninja.


So because she did the only thing she could've done in the situation that makes her the GOAT Hokage? Don't be fucking retarded. She was completely out of her depth against Pain and was powerless to actually stop him until Naruto saved her ass. The other hokages weren't medics and they would've done what they were the best at: Be badass motherfuckers and kick the shit out of Pain's punk ass, saving lives in the process.

The people were dying, that's why she healed them. She didn't go, oh these people look fine, let me heal them. They needed medical attention. Don't be a dumbass and drop the damn bias. It doesn't matter if that was the only thing she could do if the only thing she could do was save everybody's lives.
The other Hokage would have fallen, period. Sarutobi was old. Hashirama and Tobirama were never known for their incredible strength so it's safe to assume they would have as well. And Minato, well Yahiko is likely to know about Minato and big red seals stick out pretty well against a dark gray ground.


And what makes you think i don't like Tsunade? I like her just fine. She's just a shitty kage and should be relegated to medic leader.

It might have to do with the fact that you seem to think she's an awful leader despite her saving everyone in the village.


>Sage Naruto
>Stronger than Tobirama
>Stronger than Hashirama
>Stronger than Minato
>Stronger than Hiruzen

Jiriaya barely took down their bodies and it took him a while to do so and they were defeated via plot no jutsu. Naruto came in the village and dropped three bodies in three frames. That's something that not even Minato could have done while using FTG.


Oh you. So silly. Tsunade's a horrible leader who can't keep her village's Jinchuuriki under control and has failed at almost every opportunity to be a decent leader. Remember what happened in the most recent chapter? She completely backflipped on the wishes of the entire alliance to keep Naruto hidden because she believes in him. Great leadership right there. A true inspiration to the children.

She went against the Allaince because Bee and Naruto can and will defeat Madara because no one else is able to. Better leadership than A who tried to kill both of them.

[Raikage's left hand]

Do you have any proof that Sarutobi learned this incredibly complicated sealing ninjutsu because he saw Minato do it?

I think i might have gotten the idea when Hiruzen arrived moments before Minato began using the seals. (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-503/page018.html)



Danzou, Tobirama, and Hiruzen(the latter especially) are regarded are some of Konoha's greatest. There is no one as powerful as A or B that isn't A or B and if it was 20 ninja like Kakashi then Hiruzen in his prime could have taken care of them and made it back for lunch.

That should really be all you need to know to realize just how strong the team chasing them were. They obviously knew the best option for them at that point was to distract the golden horn infantry squad while the rest run away.



Tsunade, the leader of the village, lost to Kabuto, Orochimaru's right hand man. There is not a ninja in Konoha that could defeat Orochimaru and I'm willing to bet Kabuto could take the majority of them as well. Sending a mission in there to retrieve someone who just wants to get stronger in order to kill another missing ninja would have been a waste of time and ninja.

You seem to be under the impression that the only way they could've gotten to Sasuke would be to fight him directly. They could've killed him with poison or an assassination. You know, like a ninja. Too bad, Konoha didn't have a team like ROOT who specialize in doing things like that i suppose.



The people were dying, that's why she healed them. She didn't go, oh these people look fine, let me heal them. They needed medical attention. Don't be a dumbass and drop the damn bias. It doesn't matter if that was the only thing she could do if the only thing she could do was save everybody's lives.
The other Hokage would have fallen, period. Sarutobi was old. Hashirama and Tobirama were never known for their incredible strength so it's safe to assume they would have as well. And Minato, well Yahiko is likely to know about Minato and big red seals stick out pretty well against a dark gray ground.

Ok so explain to me what is the point in healing people when you simply can't stop the person injuring them? You still haven't answered that. Do you remember what happened when she finally confronted Pain? She pissed him off and he left the village a hole in the ground. If Naruto didn't show up when he did that would've been the end of Konoha and her healing would've counted for nothing. BUT HERPADERP BIAS. Try putting her into Minato's position of the Kyuubi attack. How useful would her healing have been then when she was powerless to actually stop the Kyuubi or Madara and with no super ninja saving her ass.


It might have to do with the fact that you seem to think she's an awful leader despite her saving everyone in the village.

By that logic you're completely bias against all the other hokages for using their skills to save people just the same. Tsunade's a shitty leader because she can't actually stop threats, she doesn't inspire the villagers like the other hokages and she's done absolutely nothing as hokage besides let Naruto do whatever he wants and fail to hunt down wanted criminals.


Jiriaya barely took down their bodies and it took him a while to do so and they were defeated via plot no jutsu. Naruto came in the village and dropped three bodies in three frames. That's something that not even Minato could have done while using FTG.

Ridiculous. Kishimoto's made it clear that Minato's the GOAT.


She went against the Allaince because Bee and Naruto can and will defeat Madara because no one else is able to. Better leadership than A who tried to kill both of them.

I'm well aware that he will overcome all the odds because his name is on the cover. But that's a stupid argument because it's just hiding behind the plot. A's decision to kill both of them wasn't one just made out of the blue he had logic and reasoning behind it. If he wanted to straight up kill the jinchuuriki's he wouldn't have hid them on the island in the first place. He only wanted to kill them when they were starting to endanger the world just because they were naive enough to think they can win the war by themselves.