Ok Tobi's Identity Is......

[sharinganuser]

ok if you haddent read naruto manga 396,then read it!on the last pages of chapter 396,tobi takes of his mask.only about 1/4 of his face is showing and 3/4 is coverd by is mask.We know he's a sharingan user but i dont think hes obito because his right eye was crushed.

[Chevalier]

Sigh. Tobi is a sharingan user? Yes. Tobi is Obito? NO. Tobi is Madara? Yes.

[Naruto Romeo11]

hi hi hi hi hi hi hi tobi is obito sharingan

[tatokun]

it is possible that they somehow healed obito's eye... did anyone else think that the last image in the chapter looked like if sasuke had one eye sharingan and one eye not...?

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

i think that tobi is shisui ! his best friend that he kiLLed ! ! !

[Seattleboy93]

No, he is not shisui, cause shisui was definetely dead, otherwise Itachi couldn't have activated MS

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

did anyone else think that the last image in the chapter looked like if sasuke had one eye sharingan and one eye not...?
Nah the other eye was in shadows so we can't really tell


Tobi is...........................Find out next chapter (Although he is confirmed as Madara)

[The Sex Train]

IN THE LAST PANNEL IF YOU READ WHAT WRITTEN DOWN YOU WILL SEE THAT IT SAYS:"what is MADARA planning*..............so how can it be obito?!?!?! jeez peapole......read bituean the lines........

[OrochimaruKakashi]

but Madara would have to be like way over 100 years old.....so my guess it that it's Obito's body and Madara's mind.....it makes sense if you think about it......

[lsauronl]

I think Madara stole Obito's other eye because he was blind.

[Sai]

I think Madara stole Obito's other eye because he was blind.

Intresting theory....Madara can steal other sharingans so its possible

[Uzuki]

Why is it people are so unwilling to accept that Tobi is Madara?

[The Sex Train]

yea.......

[Uchiha_Dynasty]

I have to agree with whomever says that he is Madara in Obito's body, because madara would be very old by this point. Madara probably has a jutsu similar to Orochimaru's body transfer jutsu and if Orochimaru can do it than there is no doubt that Madara is more than capable. In the last chapter he used a time/space jutsu while being attacked by shino's bugs! So a jutsu to change bodies does not seem out of his reach at all. This is just my thought but everyone will find out next.

-Uchiha Dynasty

[Uzuki]

I have to agree with whomever says that he is Madara in Obito's body, because madara would be very old by this point. Madara probably has a jutsu similar to Orochimaru's body transfer jutsu and if Orochimaru can do it than there is no doubt that Madara is more than capable. In the last chapter he used a time/space jutsu while being attacked by shino's bugs! So a jutsu to change bodies does not seem out of his reach at all. This is just my thought but everyone will find out next.

-Uchiha Dynasty

Mastering time techniques would suggest that you don't need to do body swapping which would be a medical or soul related technique.

[Uchiha_Dynasty]

Well i mentioned that because it takes alot of potential and skill to do a teqnique at that level and timing so i dont think that Madara would be incapable of pulling off a tenique such as a body transfer. Basically i am saying that Madara definatley has the skill to do something like that.

[Haver]

I have to agree with whomever says that he is Madara in Obito's body, because madara would be very old by this point. Madara probably has a jutsu similar to Orochimaru's body transfer jutsu and if Orochimaru can do it than there is no doubt that Madara is more than capable. In the last chapter he used a time/space jutsu while being attacked by shino's bugs! So a jutsu to change bodies does not seem out of his reach at all. This is just my thought but everyone will find out next.

-Uchiha Dynasty

I agree on that, and that answers the question "Is Obito alive?" Tobi's body is almost perfectly similar to Obito's body, and same thing with the hair, but there's one missing spot, because Obito gave his left eye to Kakashi, and he's right eye was crushed by the stone, so how is it possible that Madara's using Obito's corpse with one eye, if he was left with none?!

[Mattus]

IN THE LAST PANNEL IF YOU READ WHAT WRITTEN DOWN YOU WILL SEE THAT IT SAYS:"what is MADARA planning*..............so how can it be obito?!?!?! jeez peapole......read bituean the lines........

Before you call us idiots, let me just point out how much of a fool you just made for yourself by telling use to read bituean(which is not a word btw) the lines to look for something SAID.


Secondly, he's ____dara.
Half Madara half someone else, otherwise, we would've seen the other half of his face.

[Knight_of_Night]

Huh the problems are over.....chapter 397 is out and with it Tobi=Madar truth!

[sproxy]

Huh the problems are over.....chapter 397 is out and with it Tobi=Madar truth!

What do you mean truth. They still never show his face or explain anything about him there. The only thing they half way explained was Itachi being a good guy.

[KingTW]

This last chapter basically sums up my opinion of all of this. Well.. sort of. I'll try to explain my point of view as best as I can.

There's now the possibility that he's simply 100% Uchiha Madara.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/17/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/371/02/

As has been pointed out previously, the fact that half of Tobi's mask, and only one sharingan eye, could point to the person being only half Madara. The four links shown above, basically use the same type of technique. Jiraiya is talking about Madara being behind the summoning of the Kyuubi, and he's also talking about the possibility of being alive. On the third link, he says "Still... I have a really bad feeling... a premonition that just won't go away." As he says this, the scene has shifted to Tobi, who happens to be standing on the statue of... well, Uchiha Madara.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/383/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/16/

It's also especially hard to argue against having Pein, one of Madara's subordinates, calling him Madara, and having himself bluntly state that he's Madara.

Madara: "You asked Itachi yourself, about the person that helped him that night.
Sasuke: "..."
Madara: "It was me, Uchiha Madara."

However....

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/16/

Particularly in Chapter 364. He states:

"The Sharingan's true power... my power... Uchiha Madara's power."

This could attribute to Madara having another subconscious, or the ___dara theory. However, chapter 397 attributes, in my opinion, to two possibilities.

1. Tobi is half Uchiha Madara, half "something" else. Not "someone" else, but "something."
2. Half Uchiha Madara, half someone else. However, the case being that the other half is clearly dominated, and Uchiha Madara is in 100% control, thus, pretty much making him 100% Uchiha Madara anyways. It was chapter 397 that proved this to me.

This, is my speculation. I base it on, in my opinion, the irefutable evidence that Madara is referred to as such all the time, including by himself, which decides for me, that no matter which one is correct, Madara is in complete control. I also base it upon the fact that he still has yet to show the other half of his face, and on the chapter 364 link, when he refers to himself as two people: Himself and Uchiha Madara, which tells me that's there's something or someone else with him.

[Mattus]

Huh the problems are over.....chapter 397 is out and with it Tobi=Madar truth!

Wrong.
In fact Chapter 397 favored ____dara even more.
Notice how the exact side of his face that I said was ____ was never shown, he showed the half I said to be Madara, then the mask fell off, yet the right side was never shown.

[KingTW]

Oh, I'm hurt =(. No reply to my rant!!!

[Mattus]

Yeah sorry, but no offense....It's nothing I haven't already replied to before, sry.

[KingTW]

well then, let's hear it. I'm assuming you've only read the first part, in which I'm talking about it being 100% Madara. Of course, I've seen your arguments against the 100% Madara theory

[Mattus]

No and No.
I actually read all of it and I'm really tired of this debate....my answer is in many of the hundreds of bookstore threads.

[KingTW]

No and No?

That's your answer. I'm disappointed. It also doesn't prove you right if you don't post why I'm wrong. You're one hell of a debater, I'll never take that away from you, but don't be ignorant

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

maybe he's annoyed at repeating his statments over and over again( i wuld be too). but idk

I dont think that person is 100% madara b/c if he was then we wuld probably of already seen his whole face and kishi seems to be following the metaphor of only revealing HALF his face b/c he's only HALF madara

[Mattus]

No and No?

That's your answer. I'm disappointed. It also doesn't prove you right if you don't post why I'm wrong. You're one hell of a debater, I'll never take that away from you, but don't be ignorant


maybe he's annoyed at repeating his statments over and over again( i wuld be too). but idk

Thank you. I've repeated myself for 8 months.
If I didn't love debating I would've told you to look back after 3 weeks.
But 8 months that's 2/3 of a year!
Do you have any idea how annoying it is to same the same exact thing for 8 months!
I've added two things to this debate in the last 6 months!
It's not being ignorant, it's just being fed-up with repeating myself.
And don't take it personally, a month ago maybe even less I would've gladly taken you on, and I'll still take on one or two people but I'm just too tired to take on someone of your caliber.
Let's wait, it'll reveal itself in....well probably 3 months.....
Lazy ass writer. I write 12 chapters a night and he can't write one a week wtf!

[sharinganuser]

but Madara would have to be like way over 100 years old.....so my guess it that it's Obito's body and Madara's mind.....it makes sense if you think about it......

dude madara is immortal

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

ok yea but that still means he could be half a person!
which he is and his other half is OBITO


Im sticking to that statement b/c the other half will be OBITO, we have been given many little clues these past 10 chapters

[sharinganuser]

ooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkk.....tobi is madara.....and majinsharingan was wrong

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

not rele... tobi is madara yea.. but were not sure that he's 100% madara cause we have only seen half his face. and just cause he said he was madara that doesnt single out his body isn't someone elses and doesn't mean he couldnt be obtio too..
which im pretty sure is gonna happen
Majin said it's gonna be __dara,, which in this case it can be and i think WILL be.. cause if it was 100% madara we would have already of known and wouldn't of been kept in suspense this long

[Mattus]

ooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkk.....tobi is madara.....and majinsharingan was wrong

There is no solid evidence whatsoever in any way shape or form to prove how in the world the most sinister and evil person that has ever lived acts like a complete dumbass, runs from battles, cries easily, looks up to the second biggest idiot in the Akatsuki(behind himself of course), and is obnoxious, loud, and childish.

There is not one person in 8 months to have given me an explanation for that so until that happens no one is right or wrong, although it's looking that you were wrong because Chapter 397 pretty much showed it. The exact half of Tobi's face that I said was Madara's, was shown to be Madara's, and the exact half that is unknown but likely to be Obito, was not shown, the mask fell off and out of the shadows he picked it up, never once did they show that side of his face. That's not a bloody coincidence because Kishimoto is a professional writer, sure he makes mistakes but no matter who are are, even Dave Barry, you just don't do things like that for no reason. If Kishimoto wasn't trying to hide something, they would've shown ALL his face, not just the half that I said was Madara. And so far 3.5/4 of my theories of been correct, Jiriaya was killed by Pein, Sasuke beat Itachi even though Itachi was stronger than him, and Tobi is ___dara(weather or not that's Madara, Obidara, or whoeverthehelldara, we know he's ___dara.). That's 100%, those're pretty damn good odds if you ask me.

Ordinarily I wouldn't do this, I'm tired of this debate, but to come to me personally and say that I'm wrong and put up an argument like that that's just not cool. If you wanna debate with me, then you need to say more than You're right and I'm wrong.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

very nicely put majin

[jirayassecret]

^^But all of us were wrong when it came to Sasukes eyes. We were down to its either a shadow or Madara took Sasukes eye. And behold. Complete twist. Itachi invents an MS transfer technique and uses it right before he dies...the shadow effect was only to enhance the fact that Itachi only affected the Left eye/right if you view him.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

yea.. i just wanna know how this ms works. like if it would be EMS or if he wuld go blind in his left eye

[jirayassecret]

probly blindness, otherwise itachi would have made sure it affected both eyes. He did'nt want to take sasukes vision from him.

[gunner]

tobi is uchiha madara!! Go check manga 396

[Mattus]

tobi is uchiha madara!! Go check manga 396

There is no solid evidence whatsoever in any way shape or form to prove how in the world the most sinister and evil person that has ever lived acts like a complete dumbass, runs from battles, cries easily, looks up to the second biggest idiot in the Akatsuki(behind himself of course), and is obnoxious, loud, and childish.

There is not one person in 8 months to have given me an explanation for that so until that happens no one is right or wrong, although it's looking that you were wrong because Chapter 397 pretty much showed it. The exact half of Tobi's face that I said was Madara's, was shown to be Madara's, and the exact half that is unknown but likely to be Obito, was not shown, the mask fell off and out of the shadows he picked it up, never once did they show that side of his face. That's not a bloody coincidence because Kishimoto is a professional writer, sure he makes mistakes but no matter who are are, even Dave Barry, you just don't do things like that for no reason. If Kishimoto wasn't trying to hide something, they would've shown ALL his face, not just the half that I said was Madara. And so far 3.5/4 of my theories of been correct, Jiriaya was killed by Pein, Sasuke beat Itachi even though Itachi was stronger than him, and Tobi is ___dara(weather or not that's Madara, Obidara, or whoeverthehelldara, we know he's ___dara.). That's 100%, those're pretty damn good odds if you ask me.

Ordinarily I wouldn't do this, I'm tired of this debate, but to come to me personally and say that I'm wrong and put up an argument like that that's just not cool. If you wanna debate with me, then you need to say more than You're right and I'm wrong.

[Super Luigi]

he took part of the mask off but dont madara have a mangekyou he cant turn off but if u look at his eye it is a plain sharingan

[jirayassecret]

just because its eternal doesnt mean he could'nt turn it off, itachi and kakashi turn it on and off at will because of chakra loss. MS would still draw unnecessary chakra even if it was eternal. Why use it unless your fighting. As far as regular sharingan being shown. Thats was to show sasuke he was an uchiha.^^

[Mattus]

just because its eternal doesnt mean he could'nt turn it off, itachi and kakashi turn it on and off at will because of chakra loss. MS would still draw unnecessary chakra even if it was eternal. Why use it unless your fighting. As far as regular sharingan being shown. Thats was to show sasuke he was an uchiha.^^

Kakashi doesn't turn it off.
And He was said to have a PERMANENT Mangekyo Sharingan.

[KingTW]

Which means that he never has to turn of Mangekyu, because it's permanent. If that's the case, it COULD possibly mean that Tobi isn't even part Madara, but simply going around and saying that's what his name is.

[Mattus]

Which means that he never has to turn of Mangekyu, because it's permanent. If that's the case, it COULD possibly mean that Tobi isn't even part Madara, but simply going around and saying that's what his name is.

That would be a gigantic kick in the pants for everyone.

[Katon]

Majinsharingan is right, the people wouldn't believe it even if it was true, much like Pein being Yondaime or other crack head theories...

[Mattus]

Pein isn't Yondamine....
And it's not a Crack Theory.
Crack Theories don't have proof.

[Katon]

I know Pein isn't Yondaime. And That was a Crack Head Theory!

They didn't have proof, except for useless fan-made images.

Did you think I was talking about Tobi being Madara? No, of course not, that HAS had proof.

[jirayassecret]

Kakashi doesn't turn it off.
And He was said to have a PERMANENT Mangekyo Sharingan.

I meant Kakashi turns off His MS, not his regular sharingan which is always active.

And yea, it may be eternal/permanent. But the manga went in the direction that it only meant you would not go blind after using it + maybe a new technique. Still, It does not say you cant turn it off to conserve chakra and TobiDara has only shown his regular sharingan. If he was Madara in some sense, then he should still have the EMS right, so that means he turned it off? And didnt you say that the half that was shown is Madara's half? If it is, then how if his body should be decayed by now.

[Katon]

But Kakashi obtained his MS through Unorthodox means.and it's not even like a real MS. So you probably wouldn't count that MS as a "Real MS".

[jirayassecret]

But Kakashi obtained his MS through Unorthodox means.and it's not even like a real MS. So you probably wouldn't count that MS as a "Real MS".

Why not. If the Sharingan changes form and then does a technique, then its MS. Madara, Itachi and Kakashi have different looking MS. Sasuke just got his by unconventional means. Honestly, ever since Kakashi got it, and he actually says Mangekyu Sharingan! in the manga. I have accepted as fact that killing your friend is not the only way to get it. Its now been proven twice you can get it other ways. Actually, there are now 3 ways to get it.

[Katon]

I see your point. But it can be said from different views. Look at it this way..A Band-Aid..just a brand name...now look at those Wal-Mart Aids... we still call those band aids, so how is this any different? (Besides a band aid not being MS lol)

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

Madara has many secrets he culd have found a way to turn off his EMS.. but i dont think he has his original body so thats why i think he wants sasuke.. but if itachi wanted to protect sasuke then why give him MS, cause then tobidara culd get EMS and that wuldnt rele be protecting sasuke?
This is a hard prediction of whats gonna happen

[Katon]

Also, doesn't Madara have a "special version" of MS?

[KingTW]

That would be a gigantic kick in the pants for everyone.

haha yeah, no kidding eh

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

HE doesn't have a special version he has a special technique but so would everyone when they gain EMS.. but we will just have to wait and see wat happens.

[Katon]

i mean the one he got when he got his brother's eyes. Are those extra lines just a sign of being able to tell they are eternal?

[jirayassecret]

i mean the one he got when he got his brother's eyes. Are those extra lines just a sign of being able to tell they are eternal?

If your talking about Madara's MS. Then its a combination of his and his brothers MS. I honestly think that MS is gonna be different for any uchiya. There will be a pinwheel type look. Just think of it as an Iris. Every Iris is different just like every fingerprint is different. I see your idea about different Band-Aids, but I don't think so. Itachi was a genius ninja, so it does not surprise me he knows 3 different MS techniques. Kakashi given time could come up with others I'm sure. He is a ninja genius as well. Even if Sasuke has all the Techniques, who is to say he even knows how to willingly use them?

[Deadlocked]

Tobi is Madara, obviously.

[speedygaara]

but Madara would have to be like way over 100 years old.....so my guess it that it's Obito's body and Madara's mind.....it makes sense if you think about it......

half obito was crushed.

and he could be using justu to keep him self young...

[jirayassecret]

half obito was crushed.

and he could be using justu to keep him self young...

Obito theory is not crushed yet. we only saw one half of his face. could be using jutsu. Would not surprise me. Tsunade even uses a special jutsu to keep herself young, but I'm not sure if its only an illusion.

[Gära]

no... im pretty sure obito is dead
if he isnt, he wouldnt be madara's body, he would probably show up l8r in the manga if he were still alive (somewhere as in where the first person from the gang to see him would be kakashi, not sasuke)

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

what i don't know is why kakashi can't see tobi's face ! can't his sharingan see though the mask ?

[Mattus]

what i don't know is why kakashi can't see tobi's face ! can't his sharingan see though the mask ?

No. Otherwise he would be like Jiriaya if you know what I mean.


Tobi is Madara, obviously.

Obviously? 397. Re-read.


Madara has many secrets he culd have found a way to turn off his EMS.. but i dont think he has his original body so thats why i think he wants sasuke.. but if itachi wanted to protect sasuke then why give him MS, cause then tobidara culd get EMS and that wuldnt rele be protecting sasuke?
This is a hard prediction of whats gonna happen

It's PMS, not EMS. PERMANENT not Eternal,
Secondly, Eternal - lasting forever
Permanent - everlasting, without significant change

First of all, pretty much the same thing.
Second of all, that basically says it call, you can't turn off something that's permanent. Death, that's permanent, you can't just one day go, hey I think I'll be alive today.
Doesn't work like that.

[PuffDaMagicDragon]

ok tobi is sasukes dad :p
watch ul know why

tobi : sasuke join me, join the akatsuki
sasuke: no u helped itachi kill my clan and my father
tobi: no sasuke i am ur father
"tobi completely takes off his mask"
sasuke: no no
tobi: umm hello yes i am look at my face im ur father
sasuke: noooooooooooooooo

:p

[Seattleboy93]

ok tobi is sasukes dad :p
watch ul know why

tobi : sasuke join me, join the akatsuki
sasuke: no u helped itachi kill my clan and my father
tobi: no sasuke i am ur father
"tobi completely takes off his mask"
sasuke: no no
tobi: umm hello yes i am look at my face im ur father
sasuke: noooooooooooooooo

:p

Again this star wars theme...why not change it like this


tobi : sasuke join me, join the akatsuki(dark side)
sasuke: no u helped itachi kill my clan and my father
tobi: no sasuke i am ur father
"tobi completely takes off his mask"
sasuke: no, no, it's impossible
tobi: search your feelings you know it to be true
sasuke: Nooooooooooooooo!!!

[PuffDaMagicDragon]

if they actually do that i would laugh:D

[Katon]

Again this star wars theme...why not change it like this


tobi : sasuke join me, join the akatsuki(dark side)
sasuke: no u helped itachi kill my clan and my father
tobi: no sasuke i am ur father
"tobi completely takes off his mask"
sasuke: no, no, it's impossible
tobi: search your feelings you know it to be true
sasuke: Nooooooooooooooo!!!

That would be quite strange...since if it IS Obito (Madara, I know.)

[Uzuki]

Don't forget that Madara/Tobi is a master of time/space jutsu. He could always just fast forward himself through time a little bit to stay young.

[Katon]

You mean go backwards? Wouldn't fast forwarding it make him older? lol

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

Even though it's PMS you should still be able to turn it off b/c of chakra loss..
that wuld be stupid if PMS would be active the whole time and you culd never turn it off

[free2hate93]

ok so i've only read up to the 6th manga and i am stuck watching cartoon network for the episodes of naruto but i do rea fanfiction and most people are saying in their fics that tobi is madara

[Uzuki]

ok so i've only read up to the 6th manga and i am stuck watching cartoon network for the episodes of naruto but i do rea fanfiction and most people are saying in their fics that tobi is madara

There's no question about it, Tobi is Madara. Some people are claiming that Madara is some frankenstein monster that is part of another person as well, but there's no doubt that Madara is the dominant personality, if not the only personality.

[Mattus]

Even though it's PMS you should still be able to turn it off b/c of chakra loss..
that wuld be stupid if PMS would be active the whole time and you culd never turn it off

PERMANENT.
It doesn't matter if it's stupid.
It's called PERMANENT/ETERNAL, lasts forever....


There's no question about it, Tobi is Madara. Some people are claiming that Madara is some frankenstein monster that is part of another person as well, but there's no doubt that Madara is the dominant personality, if not the only personality.

No he's not, before you say he's Madara, I'll ask you again, explain the second personality, no one has been able to give me an answer to that that doesn't result in being proved wrong.
Until you give me a legit answer to that Tobi is dara.
We know half of his is Madara, the second half is unknown at the moment, as I have said enough times, if he was 100% Madara, we would've seen 100% of Madara, not just 50%.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

Majin you culd explain youself over and over again and kids will keep on saying the samething..
i agree with u 100% about the HALF-and HALF thing its just that alot of kids are stubborn and just believe wat the wanna believe and dont think..
the r thinking to simple

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

And there is no proof that the PMS stays on all of the time..and i know that you culd say that there isnt proof about alot of stuff. i just dont think that it wuld be permantley on.. i just think it means you never go blind..

[Uzuki]

PERMANENT.
No he's not, before you say he's Madara, I'll ask you again, explain the second personality, no one has been able to give me an answer to that that doesn't result in being proved wrong.
Until you give me a legit answer to that Tobi is dara.
We know half of his is Madara, the second half is unknown at the moment, as I have said enough times, if he was 100% Madara, we would've seen 100% of Madara, not just 50%.

I've told you, I think he's faking it. You don't like that answer, but it's got pretty much just as much textual support as your interpretation that he's Frankenstein.

[Mattus]

And there is no proof that the PMS stays on all of the time..and i know that you culd say that there isnt proof about alot of stuff. i just dont think that it wuld be permantley on.. i just think it means you never go blind..

More than likely true.

But the way Itachi said it, Everlasting/Permanent Mangekyo Sharingan, Everlasting means lasting forever, so atm I'm just going by the definition of everlasting, you are probably right though.

[Mattus]

I've told you, I think he's faking it. You don't like that answer, but it's got pretty much just as much textual support as your interpretation that he's Frankenstein.

Never once did I say he's Frankenstein.
And there's no reason, or no logical reason to act like that, he works in the shadows, meeting in deserted and desolate areas with his partner to talk with the rest of Akatsuki, even when Deidara died he stuck to the shadows, and he is still sticking to the shadows, but for some reason he showed up in front of Kakashi and the group, but it's not like it was in a large city, it was in the middle of the woods, in the middle of nowhere, that's still in the shadows, why would he need to act like that if he was 100% Madara? He would be stronger than everyone and he could kill them, why would he need to make a complete fool of himself for no reason at all other than that's the only thing you can come up with?

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

We won't know until we find out.. But i mean its permanentt and everlasting but you could put that in the way of mean the eyes are everlasting meaning not going blind. you culd put it in diff ways you could be right too.. idk

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

and my bad for calling you majin.. i shoudl now calll you FC, i didnt see the name change

[Uzuki]

Never once did I say he's Frankenstein.
And there's no reason, or no logical reason to act like that, he works in the shadows, meeting in deserted and desolate areas with his partner to talk with the rest of Akatsuki, even when Deidara died he stuck to the shadows, and he is still sticking to the shadows, but for some reason he showed up in front of Kakashi and the group, but it's not like it was in a large city, it was in the middle of the woods, in the middle of nowhere, that's still in the shadows, why would he need to act like that if he was 100% Madara? He would be stronger than everyone and he could kill them, why would he need to make a complete fool of himself for no reason at all other than that's the only thing you can come up with?

Frankenstein = A creature that's made up from the body parts of deceased human beings that lives beyond how long it's supposed to live.

I think Madara's plans require that his existence as Madara not be known widely yet. Thus, he fakes being the fool. I think that's more believable than him being made up from the crushed corpse of Kakashi's long dead friend.

[Mattus]

and my bad for calling you majin.. i shoudl now calll you FC, i didnt see the name change

No you can still call me Majin I'm changing it back.


Frankenstein = A creature that's made up from the body parts of deceased human beings that lives beyond how long it's supposed to live.

Frankenstein -
1. a person who creates a monster or a destructive agency that cannot be controlled or that brings about the creator's ruin.

2. an agency that escapes control and destroys its creator

3. the monster created by Frankenstein in a gothic novel by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley (the creator's name is commonly used to refer to his creation)

4. A monster having the appearance of a man.


I think Madara's plans require that his existence as Madara not be known widely yet. Thus, he fakes being the fool. I think that's more believable than him being made up from the crushed corpse of Kakashi's long dead friend.

Because it's your theory.

Madara is a pathetic shell of his former self...that basically says he can't be 100% Madara....Pathetic....Shell....

And again, he acts in the SHADOWS, who could find out? A bird? A bug? A squirrel?
Is he fighting against the squirrels?
And for the last time, I'm not arguing with you about that so quit bringing it up!

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

But why would he fake being the fool.. An all powerful shinobi like madara if he was 100% madara wouldnt be the kind of guy to fake being a fool.. he wuld just act like a BAMF..

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

Madara....Pathetic....Shell....
^ key word to that SHELL....just think about what that means..

[Uzuki]

Frankenstein -
1. a person who creates a monster or a destructive agency that cannot be controlled or that brings about the creator's ruin.

2. an agency that escapes control and destroys its creator

3. the monster created by Frankenstein in a gothic novel by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley (the creator's name is commonly used to refer to his creation)

4. A monster having the appearance of a man.

That's all well and good, if you've read the book, you know Frankenstein's monster is pieced together from body parts of corpses and then brought back to life.



Because it's your theory.

Madara is a pathetic shell of his former self...that basically says he can't be 100% Madara....Pathetic....Shell....

And again, he acts in the SHADOWS, who could find out? A bird? A bug? A squirrel?
Is he fighting against the squirrels?
And for the last time, I'm not arguing with you about that so quit bringing it up!

You're placing a lot of weight on Itachi's claim of Madara being weak. There's no other textual support for Madara being weak thus far. Quite the contrary, Tobi seems pretty much invincible.

And Tobi doesn't act in the shadows. Nor does Akatsuki. They act quite publicly pretty regularly. Remember, that whole attack on Gaara bit? That wasn't exactly subtle. Playing the public fool allows Madara to move about freely with no one having any idea that it's him.

You don't like my interpretation of the text, that's fine. But there isn't enough in the text to say that you're absolutely right. Nor is there anything there to say that I'm wrong. Until more is revealed, we can't know for certain, despite all your assurances.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

i agree with the fact that tobi is alot stonger than pppl make him out to be...
As itachi didn't something about him and tobi is bound to off kept many secrets from him

[Mattus]

That's all well and good, if you've read the book, you know Frankenstein's monster is pieced together from body parts of corpses and then brought back to life.

But that's a CHARACTER/the other things I said.
Secondly, Body Parts of Corpses, this is one body, that wasn't dead, big difference.


You're placing a lot of weight on Itachi's claim of Madara being weak. There's no other textual support for Madara being weak thus far. Quite the contrary, Tobi seems pretty much invincible.

Madara is a pathetic shell of his former self....
Idc if that's the only evidence, there's only been evidence of Tobi escaping death three times but neither my point nor your point is relevant here.
I'm not saying he's weak, but he is a shell of his former self, a pathetic one, the only way that could've been said any clearer is if it said the actual words.


And Tobi doesn't act in the shadows. Nor does Akatsuki. They act quite publicly pretty regularly. Remember, that whole attack on Gaara bit? That wasn't exactly subtle. Playing the public fool allows Madara to move about freely with no one having any idea that it's him.

Cave.
Woods.
Valley of the End.
Akatsuki's Secret Hideout.
Woods.
Woods.
Rubble.
Who knows.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but that's in the shadows. There has never been one time where Tobi was not in the shadows.

He made his first appearance in a cave.
Then later on he was in the woods outside the cave.
Then on a statue at the valley of the end.
Then in Akatsuki's secret hideout.
Then in the woods where he encountered Sasuke.
Then in the woods where he encountered Kakashi.
Then in the battle field where Itachi and Sasuke fought.
Then in a dark place where they are now.

Those are not public places, not even close. He has had three appearances where he was with someone other than Akatsuki, with Sasuke, in which he acted as ____, with Kakashi in which he acted as both ____ and dara, and with Sasuke in which he has acted as dara.

So with people other than Akatsuki, he's been ____ A.K.A dumb, foolish, personality, twices, and he's been dara, A.K.A the personality known as Madara.

So it's even, so the disguise/cover point is nullified because he has indeed acted on behalf of both of his personalities in front of people other than Akatsuki.


You don't like my interpretation of the text, that's fine. But there isn't enough in the text to say that you're absolutely right. Nor is there anything there to say that I'm wrong. Until more is revealed, we can't know for certain, despite all your assurances.

Actually yes there is, everything I've said, almost that is, has been from the text.
Secondly, Itachi, Tobi, and Zetsu, they prove me right too.

Itachi said Madara is a pathetic shell of his former self.

Tobi acts like a complete dunce one second, then a complete genius the next.

Zetsu treats Tobi like a Child almost, and then a second later like he's the voice of Tobi.

Major changes in Tobi, and major changes in Zetsu that account for the changes in Tobi, that's no coincidence.

Tobi's personality changes are too large to be compared to one-an-other, they are completely opposite.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

ok ppl need to stop being so oblvious to the fact that theres a really good posibilty that madara is not one person...
This discussion has been going on for ever and there have been many very good points... if u Disagree with what we say plz go back and re-read frmo chapter 355 up and focus on Tobi and tell me you think thann...
all you guys r missing the big idea here that we have been exlpaining(it gets annoying repeating things).. i have probably only repeated like 50 things since im new but to the ppl who have been arguing about this for a long time it would help alot if you re-read the manga about tobi more carefully..

[U_Man]

i think tobi is Madara in obitos body

[Uzuki]

ok ppl need to stop being so oblvious to the fact that theres a really good posibilty that madara is not one person...
This discussion has been going on for ever and there have been many very good points... if u Disagree with what we say plz go back and re-read frmo chapter 355 up and focus on Tobi and tell me you think thann...
all you guys r missing the big idea here that we have been exlpaining(it gets annoying repeating things).. i have probably only repeated like 50 things since im new but to the ppl who have been arguing about this for a long time it would help alot if you re-read the manga about tobi more carefully..

I have read from 355 up. I find the argument that Tobi is some mix of human beings much harder to believe than he's faking being a fool. I've looked at all the evidence people keep bringing up, and I think they're making mountains out of molehills. The simplest explanation is just that Tobi's Madara and that he's been faking being a moron.

I think Tobi is a hybrid of people argument to be absurd, but it's possible. Anything's possible at this point, since so little has truly been revealed.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

i don't think tobi is onLy madara !

there is aLot of things that i agree with majin about !

[Haver]

it's yet to be reavealed, even so what's the point of Tobi being half Madara half other one (wich i would say is Obito), but tough i don't see any advantage of that

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

the advantage is that you Live mate !

how can you Live in a body that is ancient ? you can't it get's oLd and you need a new one ! especiaLLy if you want to take over the worLd ! ! !

[Uzuki]

the advantage is that you Live mate !

how can you Live in a body that is ancient ? you can't it get's oLd and you need a new one ! especiaLLy if you want to take over the worLd ! ! !

I'm not sure there's any reason to think that Madara's body is aging. He's not Orochimaru, and he does know another real immortal (who's head is currently buried underground).

[Mattus]

I have read from 355 up. I find the argument that Tobi is some mix of human beings much harder to believe than he's faking being a fool.

Because that's your theory.


I've looked at all the evidence people keep bringing up, and I think they're making mountains out of molehills. The simplest explanation is just that Tobi's Madara and that he's been faking being a moron.

Yes but that's not the real explanation.


I think Tobi is a hybrid of people argument to be absurd, but it's possible. Anything's possible at this point, since so little has truly been revealed.

So little?
So...little...
You need to get your facts straight, a lot of been revealed, it's very obvious who he is now, there is no reason for him to fake being a fool when he works in the shadows.


it's yet to be reavealed, even so what's the point of Tobi being half Madara half other one (wich i would say is Obito), but tough i don't see any advantage of that

The advantage is a much better storyline.

1. As Kishimoto said, a big event will happen to Kakashi this year.
2. Kakashi old best friend returning from what Kakashi used to think was the dead will be a very good twist.
3. It will fill in the mystery of what happened to Rin.


I'm not sure there's any reason to think that Madara's body is aging. He's not Orochimaru, and he does know another real immortal (who's head is currently buried underground).

Madara knew an immortal...so what.
I know an Asian man but just because i know him doesn't mean I can be one.

[HyuugaHinata]

We don't know if he's half obito or not. Maybe Kishi is doing all this to get us thinking the wrong way. It hasn't been revealed yet so you can't say he is until it's proven all the way.

[Mattus]

We don't know if he's half obito or not. Maybe Kishi is doing all this to get us thinking the wrong way. It hasn't been revealed yet so you can't say he is until it's proven all the way.

It's extremely obvious, even if it hasn't been revealed, unless Kishimoto has a box of donuts and a telescope and is standing in my backyard looking at what I'm typing just to **** with me, he's ____dara.

Just like Minato being Naruto's father.

[Uzuki]

Just like Minato being Naruto's father.

It's nothing like that. They've explicitly said that Minato is Naruto's father, where you belief that Tobi is a combination of two human beings is speculative. You think you're right, but there's no conclusive evidence of that. The fact that he had his hand over half his face is not conclusive evidence.

It's at best, circumstantial.

[Mattus]

It's nothing like that. They've explicitly said that Minato is Naruto's father, where you belief that Tobi is a combination of two human beings is speculative. You think you're right, but there's no conclusive evidence of that. The fact that he had his hand over half his face is not conclusive evidence.

It's at best, circumstantial.

Actually no they didn't, not until a few chapters ago.
Up until that is a believe.

Actually there is quite a lot of evidence that in no way could it all be coincidental.

I've stated it all before, unless you respond to that and somehow give me reason and logic to prove that it's all coincidental and give me an actual reason why Madara acted like he did, then you shouldn't really be saying I have no evidence if you can't bother to respond to the large amount of evidence I've been posting for 8 and a half months.

[Uzuki]

Actually no they didn't, not until a few chapters ago.
Up until that is a believe.

Actually there is quite a lot of evidence that in no way could it all be coincidental.

I've stated it all before, unless you respond to that and somehow give me reason and logic to prove that it's all coincidental and give me an actual reason why Madara acted like he did, then you shouldn't really be saying I have no evidence if you can't bother to respond to the large amount of evidence I've been posting for 8 and a half months.

I have given you a reason, you just don't like the reason. I think he's faking it. You don't think he has a reason to, I think he does. Neither of us know for sure, because neither of us know what Madara's up to.

And lots of circumstantial evidence does not become concrete evidence. It just becomes a pile of circumstantial evidence. It may just remain circumstance. Or an intent by the writer to intentionally mislead, to encourage readers down the wrong path.

[HyuugaHinata]

Can't be completely sure yet though, majin ^_^

[Mattus]

Can't be completely sure yet though, majin ^_^

True yet it looks to be true.


I have given you a reason, you just don't like the reason. I think he's faking it. You don't think he has a reason to, I think he does. Neither of us know for sure, because neither of us know what Madara's up to.

Yet, as I've done exactly 6 times I believe, I'm stated why he doesn't need to fake it, which is actually true, you just can't see that.


And lots of circumstantial evidence does not become concrete evidence. It just becomes a pile of circumstantial evidence. It may just remain circumstance. Or an intent by the writer to intentionally mislead, to encourage readers down the wrong path.

Redundant or Hypocritical? I can't really decide. I think it's both.

[Uzuki]

Yet, as I've done exactly 6 times I believe, I'm stated why he doesn't need to fake it, which is actually true, you just can't see that.

All you've said is you don't know why he'd need to be subtle or hide his identity. And I've said "We don't know what Madara wants at all, so there may be a reason why he needs to be subtle."

Simply saying "I'm right damn it" enough times doesn't make you right.

[Mattus]

All you've said is you don't know why he'd need to be subtle or hide his identity. And I've said "We don't know what Madara wants at all, so there may be a reason why he needs to be subtle."

Simply saying "I'm right damn it" enough times doesn't make you right.

So you just cut out what you want to read and don't read the rest.
Cause I explained how he doesn't need to hide it.

I'm right damn it doesn't make me right but 8 and a half months of research and debating and forming a solid point gets me pretty close.

I'm not repeating myself.
Look back at the previous two maybe three pages for my answer to why he doesn't need to hide his identity, respond to it afterwards if you want.

[Uzuki]

So you just cut out what you want to read and don't read the rest.
Cause I explained how he doesn't need to hide it.

I'm right damn it doesn't make me right but 8 and a half months of research and debating and forming a solid point gets me pretty close.

I'm not repeating myself.
Look back at the previous two maybe three pages for my answer to why he doesn't need to hide his identity, respond to it afterwards if you want.

Okay, to paraphrase what's been said:

- Madara doesn't need to hide in the shadows because Akatsuki hides in the shadows (no, it doesn't...Deidara blowing up the Sand made that pretty obvious).

- Madara is so amazing that he doesn't need to hide (yet at the same time, it gets cited he's a pathetic shell of his former self by Itachi?)

What if Madara's plan requires that no one know what Madara's up to? Or even that few people know that Madara exists? <-- Can you say that's incorrect without knowing what Madara's plan is?

[Mattus]

- Madara doesn't need to hide in the shadows because Akatsuki hides in the shadows (no, it doesn't...Deidara blowing up the Sand made that pretty obvious).

Akatsuki was formed in the shadows and acts in the shadows.
The most wanted criminals are in that organization, if they were in public you don't think they wouldn't of been caught by now?

Deidara had to capture Gaara, there was no other way but to infiltrate the Sand.


- Madara is so amazing that he doesn't need to hide (yet at the same time, it gets cited he's a pathetic shell of his former self by Itachi?)

No, you are saying that he is 100% Madara, and if he was he wouldn't be a pathetic shell of his former self now would he?

And neither of which is what I said, I said this, regarding the shadows.



Cave.
Woods.
Valley of the End.
Akatsuki's Secret Hideout.
Woods.
Woods.
Rubble.
Who knows.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but that's in the shadows. There has never been one time where Tobi was not in the shadows.

He made his first appearance in a cave.
Then later on he was in the woods outside the cave.
Then on a statue at the valley of the end.
Then in Akatsuki's secret hideout.
Then in the woods where he encountered Sasuke.
Then in the woods where he encountered Kakashi.
Then in the battle field where Itachi and Sasuke fought.
Then in a dark place where they are now.

Those are not public places, not even close. He has had three appearances where he was with someone other than Akatsuki, with Sasuke, in which he acted as ____, with Kakashi in which he acted as both ____ and dara, and with Sasuke in which he has acted as dara.

So with people other than Akatsuki, he's been ____ A.K.A dumb, foolish, personality, twices, and he's been dara, A.K.A the personality known as Madara.

So it's even, so the disguise/cover point is nullified because he has indeed acted on behalf of both of his personalities in front of people other than Akatsuki.

[Uzuki]

Akatsuki was formed in the shadows and acts in the shadows.
The most wanted criminals are in that organization, if they were in public you don't think they wouldn't of been caught by now?

Have you noticed that they're all wearing distinctive capes with red clouds, walking around in public, wearing rings, and distinctive nail polish? They've done this in the middle of Konoha. They've flown around the sand village while tossing bombs everywhere. They've picked numerous fights.

Akatsuki is not an organization that acts in the shadows. Not at all. They're not caught because half of them are practically immortal.




Deidara had to capture Gaara, there was no other way but to infiltrate the Sand.

Infiltrate...AND THEN FLY AROUND BLOWING THE PLACE UP! Really subtle that one.


No, you are saying that he is 100% Madara, and if he was he wouldn't be a pathetic shell of his former self now would he?

I'm saying that there's too much in the air to be certain on any given theory. And I'm skeptical of the claim that he's a merged being of some sort, since I don't think that's believable. I guess it's possible, but that's because I'm willing to say that a lot of the story is still open ended right now.



And neither of which is what I said, I said this, regarding the shadows.



Cave.
Woods.
Valley of the End.
Akatsuki's Secret Hideout.
Woods.
Woods.
Rubble.
Who knows.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but that's in the shadows. There has never been one time where Tobi was not in the shadows.


Madara helped found Konoha. He's also associated with Zetsu. Don't you think he'd be familiar with abilities like Byakuugan that allow people to see what you're doing from great distances, through walls and where you might not be able to see them? All of those locations are relatively public locations.




He made his first appearance in a cave.
Then later on he was in the woods outside the cave.
Then on a statue at the valley of the end.
Then in Akatsuki's secret hideout.
Then in the woods where he encountered Sasuke.
Then in the woods where he encountered Kakashi.
Then in the battle field where Itachi and Sasuke fought.
Then in a dark place where they are now.

Also, keep in mind, it's quite clear that most of Akatsuki doesn't know who Madara is, or his role in Akatsuki. I believe Madara has done this on purpose, further reinforcing the claim that Madara doesn't want many people (many being more than like...5) to know who he is or what his plans are.


Those are not public places, not even close. He has had three appearances where he was with someone other than Akatsuki, with Sasuke, in which he acted as ____, with Kakashi in which he acted as both ____ and dara, and with Sasuke in which he has acted as dara.

So with people other than Akatsuki, he's been ____ A.K.A dumb, foolish, personality, twices, and he's been dara, A.K.A the personality known as Madara.

So it's even, so the disguise/cover point is nullified because he has indeed acted on behalf of both of his personalities in front of people other than Akatsuki.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's only revealed himself as someone other than Tobi to Pein, Konan, Zetsu (who seems to see everything), Sasuke and Itachi, right? That's a total of 5 people. I don't see how you can say him wanting to be discrete is nullified by him revealing himself to 5 people.

[BK-nin]

i say if tobi is madara then madara must be rediculosly powerfull. itachi said he was only a pathetic shell of his forme self, yet pein still takes orders from him. if since tobi and itachi say he's madara, then he must be madara

[HyuugaHinata]

Maybe Tobi has a personality disorder xP.

[Mattus]

Have you noticed that they're all wearing distinctive capes with red clouds, walking around in public, wearing rings, and distinctive nail polish? They've done this in the middle of Konoha. They've flown around the sand village while tossing bombs everywhere. They've picked numerous fights.

Actually no, Itachi and Kisame came for Naruto in Tanzuka, which is outside of Konoha, and they fled once Jiriaya arrived, then they encountered Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenei, and Gai. Who in return, attacked them, Gai and Kurenei at least, Kisame was eager to fight, but they did not fight for long, they quickly dealt with it and moved on before more people arrived.

Deidara was a fool, and the sand village is weak. But nevertheless they had to do that to acquire Gaara.


Akatsuki is not an organization that acts in the shadows. Not at all. They're not caught because half of them are practically immortal.

One was immortal and is now gone.
And actually they did act in the shadows.
They hid for 3 years before going on the move again, and from what I've seen, three out of the 5 Bijuu's they have captured have been in remote places, Encounters with Konoha and Sunaga were inevitable, they had to complete their mission, but most of the other bijuu besides Naruto and Gaara were in small villages and/or in very remote areas.



Infiltrate...AND THEN FLY AROUND BLOWING THE PLACE UP! Really subtle that one.

This is DEIDARA we're talking about.



I'm saying that there's too much in the air to be certain on any given theory. And I'm skeptical of the claim that he's a merged being of some sort, since I don't think that's believable. I guess it's possible, but that's because I'm willing to say that a lot of the story is still open ended right now.

Okay, that's fine, I wouldn't say a lot though, it's actually very obvious that he's ___dara at the moment, but as you said you don't find that believable so I won't hold that against you.


Madara helped found Konoha. He's also associated with Zetsu. Don't you think he'd be familiar with abilities like Byakuugan that allow people to see what you're doing from great distances, through walls and where you might not be able to see them? All of those locations are relatively public locations.

No they aren't.
Not even close.




Also, keep in mind, it's quite clear that most of Akatsuki doesn't know who Madara is, or his role in Akatsuki. I believe Madara has done this on purpose, further reinforcing the claim that Madara doesn't want many people (many being more than like...5) to know who he is or what his plans are.

Itachi knows, meaning Kisame knows, Pein knows, meaning Konan knows, and Zetsu knows, that is all of Akatsuki, I can't speak for the 4 that are deceased they might've known, but you know it's not exactly something that just comes up in conversation, but plus, they most likely knew, as Tobi's personalities switch at random times.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's only revealed himself as someone other than Tobi to Pein, Konan, Zetsu (who seems to see everything), Sasuke and Itachi, right? That's a total of 5 people. I don't see how you can say him wanting to be discrete is nullified by him revealing himself to 5 people.

Pein, Konan, Zetsu, Itachi, are his comrades, so i don't see your point because of course they would know. And he's revealed himself to one person, Sasuke.


i say if tobi is madara then madara must be rediculosly powerfull. itachi said he was only a pathetic shell of his forme self, yet pein still takes orders from him. if since tobi and itachi say he's madara, then he must be madara

Actually, Itachi said Madara was a Pathetic SHELL of his former self.
Shell being the key word.
And you should know, being one of the few who's been in this since the beginning, that there is very much evidence to prove that wrong, plus 397 proves he is most likely ___dara.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

yes majin very nice with the kry word SHELL thats wat i said to...if ppl kno wat shell means than they culd get a pretty good idea that it wuld be ___dara

[Uzuki]

For the people placing a lot of emphasis on the word "shell", bear in mind that you're placing a lot of weight on the particular translation from Japanese that you read. The original Japanese need not (though it may) have that original connotation.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

what was the orginal jap translation?
wasn't it shell...


well i see tomma i just got back from my lax game and im beat

[BK-nin]

For the people placing a lot of emphasis on the word "shell", bear in mind that you're placing a lot of weight on the particular translation from Japanese that you read. The original Japanese need not (though it may) have that original connotation.
it's the translators job to translate phrases the way they would sound in english.
some phrases can't be translated normally because they won't make sense that way.

[Uzuki]

it's the translators job to translate phrases the way they would sound in english.
some phrases can't be translated normally because they won't make sense that way.

But fansubbers don't have magical access to the manga writers. They have to guess what the author meant with certain terms that have more than one meaning.

[Mattus]

For the people placing a lot of emphasis on the word "shell", bear in mind that you're placing a lot of weight on the particular translation from Japanese that you read. The original Japanese need not (though it may) have that original connotation.


But fansubbers don't have magical access to the manga writers. They have to guess what the author meant with certain terms that have more than one meaning.


BK's right, if they translated it 100&#37; and left it the way it was he would've said.

Self former his of shell pathetic a is Madara.

And you seriously think the translators don't speak Japanese?

Also, I would like a response to my other post....

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

well majin a response on that one wuld be tough b/c all the information you have stated seems to have good back up except for the fact that you assumed kisame and konan knew who tobi was...
Are you assuming this b/c kisame is itachi partner and itachi knew/ konan is pein's partner and pein knew?
I think Pein,ITachi, Zetsu, and Sasuke are the only ones who know...

Its not a big deal if they/don't know.. thats just the onlything that i could pick at out of all your reponse lol..(digging in the garbage)

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

I'm not sure there's any reason to think that Madara's body is aging. He's not Orochimaru, and he does know another real immortal (who's head is currently buried underground).

everybody ages ! madara shouLd be weLL over a hundred now ! can't be bad a**, take over the worLd when your body needs a nap every hour !

[Mattus]

Actually he would be dead...he wouldn't be alive at all. And even if he was, his body could not of withstood traveling as fast as he did.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

weLL there, even better, he wouLd be dead ! just Like the 1st !

ay majin, why do you think mokuton wasn't passed down? just wondering, otherwise they wouLd have been a awesome cLan ! ! !

[Mattus]

Idk maybe if they give more insight on Yamato they'll tell us why, I don't get it either.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

imagine tsunade with mokuton ! ! !

[Mattus]

I can't. lol Idk why... Weird xD

[amathews1998]

tobi ideaty...

1.reply me to kown

2.think who it is

[amathews1998]

hi hi hi hi hi hi hi tobi is obito sharingan

you got the right answer for my post.good job!!!!!

[amathews1998]

you got the right answer for my post.good job!!!!!
it's obito the sharingan user

[me06]

actualy thats wrong it even says in the manga http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs30/300W/f/2008/107/9/2/asdfgh_by_me06.jpg

[Mattus]

actualy thats wrong it even says in the manga http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs30/300W/f/2008/107/9/2/asdfgh_by_me06.jpg

Yet evidence shows he is ____dara.

[Masterofdeath]

No, in the last chapter he clearly said he was Madara. You do research.

[Mattus]

No, in the last chapter he clearly said he was Madara. You do research.

I've been doing it for 8 months, believe me he is ____dara, every thing points to it, in case you didn't notice, that was the second personality that said he was Madara, the first has yet to be revealed.

And also the left side of his face, the side that is almost 100% someone else, was not revealed but the side that is Madara has been, this is to mislead everyone who thinks he's Madara and a little wink to the people who know who he is.

I'm seen/done/stuidies enough writing to know what he's doing. It's textbook(most likely)

And a side-note, for Uzuki, who says it is crazy for Tobi to be ____dara because it's two humans in one....I finally have the comeback.

Kabumaru.

[Masterofdeath]

I've been doing it for 8 months, believe me he is ____dara, every thing points to it, in case you didn't notice, that was the second personality that said he was Madara, the first has yet to be revealed.

And also the left side of his face, the side that is almost 100% someone else, was not revealed but the side that is Madara has been, this is to mislead everyone who thinks he's Madara and a little wink to the people who know who he is.

I'm seen/done/stuidies enough writing to know what he's doing. It's textbook(most likely)

And a side-note, for Uzuki, who says it is crazy for Tobi to be ____dara because it's two humans in one....I finally have the comeback.

Kabumaru.

That is possible, but I go on fact only. So, up till now Tobi will currently be known only as Madara.

[Mattus]

Okay, you go by fact, call him ____dara, cause that's fact right now.
Madara is an assumption or a theory.
____dara was actually proven true in chapter 364 when the second personality made it's debut.

[Masterofdeath]

No, he said he was Madara. Multiple times

[Mattus]

Yes and the manga proves that he is also someone else, therefore if you are going by fact he is ___dara.

[Koi-Chi]

Yeah Tobi is Madara!

[Mattus]

Read.

[Masterofdeath]

yOU read

[Mattus]

yOU read

I wrote the post....

[jirayassecret]

No, he said he was Madara. Multiple times

and madara is also a goof off kid like person? hmm..sounds like someone I remember...

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

Ok yes he's madara.
he is madara
he is madara
he is madara
he is madara
BUT HE IS ALSO SOMEONE ELSE...He's not just madara
If he was just MAdara he wouldnt be playing around half the time like a little kid....

[HyuugaHanabi]

Maybe he's a kid at heart or just likes to be happy. nobody really knows. the only way someone knows is if kishimoto actually said it in an interview or had the character mention that he is someone else in the show.

[jirayassecret]

Maybe he's a kid at heart or just likes to be happy. nobody really knows. the only way someone knows is if kishimoto actually said it in an interview or had the character mention that he is someone else in the show.

kind of did already when everyone calls him Tobi in akatsuki "half" the time.

[HyuugaHanabi]

Of course. im just talking about the obito thing..sorry.

[jirayassecret]

Of course. im just talking about the obito thing..sorry.

gotcha. obito is up in the air for me.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

i just think the obito thing is a rele good percentage of happening b/c it wuld rele get kakashi more involved in the story like with his past and stuff cause we don't know much about his past

[HyuugaHanabi]

That would be such a great twist:)

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

i just think the obito thing is a rele good percentage of happening b/c it wuld rele get kakashi more involved in the story like with his past and stuff cause we don't know much about his past

we know aLot about kakashi !!!

we know that his father was konoha's WHITE FANG ! he faiLed a mission in order to save his comrades. the viLLage turned on him and so he commited suicide. that is why kakashi foLLows ruLes so strictLy !

we know that the 4th was his sensei and his teamates were uchiha obito and rin ! we know that kakashi was a chiLd genius and became jounin at a young age ! obito's body was crushed and he gave his sharingan eye to kakashi !

traits such as being Late and coming up with Lame excuses such as he was performing good deeds come from obito who was his best friend ! we haven't heard of his mother but he said that everyone important to him is dead so we can assume she is dead !

[Masterofdeath]

Madara is a former shell of himself in means that he has split personalities. He is no longer a tyrant like before, but a man with a mission instead. He isn't two people, Tobi is Madara.

[Mattus]

kind of did already when everyone calls him Tobi in akatsuki "half" the time.

...
...
...
*hugs*



Madara is a former shell of himself in means that he has split personalities. He is no longer a tyrant like before, but a man with a mission instead. He isn't two people, Tobi is Madara.

It's 100% true.
He is ____dara now.
The final piece of proof needed has been revealed.
He is known as Tobi...and Madara.
He acts like Tobi....and Madara.
He goes by new names.
Acts like two different people.
He is two different people, in one body.
That is now a proven theory.
The only thing we are waiting on is the chapter to prove it fact.

[jirayassecret]

^Do you think that Madara is the dominant personality that takes over at will or do you think Tobi has equal control of the "tv time".

[.Akatsuki.]

It's madara in his own body.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa187/EmilieIcons/facepalm.png

[jirayassecret]

^That would be cool, but I can't buy that. I think its very unlikely given the facts we already know. You can argue the Kakuzu thing on how he (extended his life taking new hearts), but that has already been done. Kishimoto never does the same thing with different characters from my experience. No.. madaras life extension technique is gonna be crazier than anything we have seen so far.

[.Akatsuki.]

It must be, since he can control something like the Kyuubi and teach one of the most powerful characters in the series.

[Gära]

but going by what you said before, he wont be in somebody elses body cuz orochimaru already did that

[.Akatsuki.]

Yes...wait.

THOUGHT:

He can control time basically, like transporting and stuff. What if he can freeze things in time as well, like his soul or chakra to keep him alive?

I only just thought of it moments ago.

[Uzuki]

Yes...wait.

THOUGHT:

He can control time basically, like transporting and stuff. What if he can freeze things in time as well, like his soul or chakra to keep him alive?

I only just thought of it moments ago.

I keep saying Madara is actually Sasuke from the future! He used his time/space jutsu mastery to go back in time to train himself to be able to beat Naruto.

[Gära]

that is just plain stupid.. no offense lol
but .akatsuki u have a point.......

[jirayassecret]

No one argues that Madara exists in "some form now". How he is alive is the kicker. It WILL be a unique technique different from Hidan, Oro, and Kakuzu. They all are different. Tobi is Madara and Madara is also .....

[Gära]

madara is only madara he wouldnt be any1 else or that would be like orochimaru

[me06]

Ok yes he's madara.
he is madara
he is madara
he is madara
he is madara
BUT HE IS ALSO SOMEONE ELSE...He's not just madara
If he was just MAdara he wouldnt be playing around half the time like a little kid....
havent you heard of acting? he's trying to act dumb so no one thinks he's some amazing person cos then people with underestimate him

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

ok yea ppl can act but i doubt madara would be the one to do that!

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

heated debate ! by the end of next week, one of you wiLL be feeLing so shamed ! ! !

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

true but im confident enough to conclude that i won't be shamed...i'll be right!:)

[Uzuki]

heated debate ! by the end of next week, one of you wiLL be feeLing so shamed ! ! !

People have been saying that for weeks. I dunno, after the manga explicitly said Tobi is Madara, several times now, people are still saying he's not full Madara. I think those people are going to keep saying Madara's not fully Madara until ... well, they get bored and read another forum.

[Gära]

lol yea i agree
some people just dont give up...

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

weLL majin said he's been going at it for 8 months !

and yea, there is no end to this unLess they specificaLLy say that madara is in obito ! any other wording wiLL have peopLe saying, but no wait... it's coming !

doesn't bother me, i just want to know about itachi ! ! !

[Gära]

yea i no
and he is not in obito's body

[Mattus]

havent you heard of acting? he's trying to act dumb so no one thinks he's some amazing person cos then people with underestimate him

No he's not.
He has met two people not in Akatsuki, or two groups.
He acts in the shadows.
And if he was truly 100% Madara, he wouldn't need to care, he could just kill them.


lol yea i agree
some people just dont give up...

After 8 months, I've finally put every single piece together. Now as many people have tried in the past, this could be the art of misleading. That is false. Because, misleading....never under any circumstances at all, leave this many clues over this span of time, misleading is a short 3, maybe 5 chapter thing where you think it's something but it's something else, it's been 33 chapters, that's too long to be misleading, and generally...misleading techniques are more obvious to everyone.


People have been saying that for weeks. I dunno, after the manga explicitly said Tobi is Madara, several times now, people are still saying he's not full Madara. I think those people are going to keep saying Madara's not fully Madara until ... well, they get bored and read another forum.

Yet the manga has shown that he is ___dara.
There is proof, the entire thing, none of what I'm saying about ____dara is theory, everything is from the manga.
He is ____dara.
Obidara is a theory.
____dara is proven.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Would you mind writing down all that evidence about ___dara theory and email or post it, then we would see what is making you so sure.

[Mattus]

You have to look it up.
I've been repeating myself for 8 months adding a little bit more to it every week.
Look it up in this thread, and any other thread involving Tobi/Madara/Chapter 363/364/396/and 397 in this section(Konoha Bookstore)

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

Hmm, well I will look through it, and btw gonna download all the manga now and read through it all taking notes and make up my mind ^^

[Mattus]

www.onemanga.com

364-397, read it there, it would be a waste of time and space to download 33 chapters.

[Yondaime The Yellow Flash]

I just read all mangas in that area, and I figured that:

1. Yeah there are thing that supports your theory

2.There is nothing that makes it secure ^^

[DuffyBag]

His right eye? I thought it was his left? thats why Tobi`s eye hole is in the right side of the mask,
But I think he is Madara because theres rumours going around that
Kakashi got his left eye from Deidara so that means Tobi cant be Obito

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

^? duffy... it would make sense that tobi could also be obito you got your wording mixed upp we havent seen Tobi's left eye yet and Obito gave his left eye away to kakashi ,, kakashi didn't get his eye from deidara where'd you get that lol?

[Kankurotto]

^Hilarious! ^^

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

haHAha ! DEIDARA ???

yea, that's pretty funny ! ! !

[Masterofdeath]

tobi is madara

[Konohamaru]

madara!:D

[Mattus]

You two are really starting to tick me off.
Instead of posting a one word answer which can be easily proven wrong, try responding to something. Or at least read.

[HyuugaHinata]

^Konohamaru is new, he didn't know...
Anyway, I'm hoping that Tobi is just Madara and not another person..

[Mattus]

^^I know but he's done it three times now, two of the times my posts were almost directly above.

[Gära]

No he's not.
He has met two people not in Akatsuki, or two groups.
He acts in the shadows.
And if he was truly 100&#37; Madara, he wouldn't need to care, he could just kill them.



After 8 months, I've finally put every single piece together. Now as many people have tried in the past, this could be the art of misleading. That is false. Because, misleading....never under any circumstances at all, leave this many clues over this span of time, misleading is a short 3, maybe 5 chapter thing where you think it's something but it's something else, it's been 33 chapters, that's too long to be misleading, and generally...misleading techniques are more obvious to everyone.



Yet the manga has shown that he is ___dara.
There is proof, the entire thing, none of what I'm saying about ____dara is theory, everything is from the manga.
He is ____dara.
Obidara is a theory.
____dara is proven.

no
___dara is not proven
ive read every manga chapter more than once
if you can prove it i will believe you bt that is not likely to happen

[Mattus]

no
___dara is not proven
ive read every manga chapter more than once
if you can prove it i will believe you bt that is not likely to happen

They showed half his face, not the second half, this is obvious to some people, not to most, but that's a writing technique, and it's a poorly disguised one at best. It's basically the thing that proves something right, then a few chapters or episodes later shocks the hell out of you. This is that scenario.

Tobi has two personalities that come on at different times, one of them is known as Madara, the other is known as Tobi. This just occurred to me a little while ago, but that's proving it to be fact right there. Tobi is known as Madara, but also as Tobi.

If Madara was truly 100&#37; Madara, he wouldn't need to be in disguise or wear a mask or anything.

Tobi was added in as Deidara's replacement, Tobi...the person who you all think is Madara...was just accepted into his own organization.

Two Personalities.
Known as two different people.
Revealed the exact half of his face I said was Madara, and didn't show the other.

And there is much more evidence that you can look up in this thread.
Tobi is ____Dara, that is true.
Not saying that that blank couldn't be Ma, but it's not looking that way.

He's been called Madara, but also been called Tobi. We've seen the half that is Madara, but we haven't seen the half that is Tobi. So at the moment he is ___Dara....or Tobidara.

[Masterofdeath]

We have had this discussion several times. Tobi is clearly Madara as stated several times in the manga.

[Mattus]

They showed half his face, not the second half, this is obvious to some people, not to most, but that's a writing technique, and it's a poorly disguised one at best. It's basically the thing that proves something right, then a few chapters or episodes later shocks the hell out of you. This is that scenario.

Tobi has two personalities that come on at different times, one of them is known as Madara, the other is known as Tobi. This just occurred to me a little while ago, but that's proving it to be fact right there. Tobi is known as Madara, but also as Tobi.

If Madara was truly 100% Madara, he wouldn't need to be in disguise or wear a mask or anything.

Tobi was added in as Deidara's replacement, Tobi...the person who you all think is Madara...was just accepted into his own organization.

Two Personalities.
Known as two different people.
Revealed the exact half of his face I said was Madara, and didn't show the other.

And there is much more evidence that you can look up in this thread.
Tobi is ____Dara, that is true.
Not saying that that blank couldn't be Ma, but it's not looking that way.

He's been called Madara, but also been called Tobi. We've seen the half that is Madara, but we haven't seen the half that is Tobi. So at the moment he is ___Dara....or Tobidara.

Read.

[Masterofdeath]

We do. We don't feel the same way as you.

[Mattus]

What?

[Gära]

They showed half his face, not the second half, this is obvious to some people, not to most, but that's a writing technique, and it's a poorly disguised one at best. It's basically the thing that proves something right, then a few chapters or episodes later shocks the hell out of you. This is that scenario.

Tobi has two personalities that come on at different times, one of them is known as Madara, the other is known as Tobi. This just occurred to me a little while ago, but that's proving it to be fact right there. Tobi is known as Madara, but also as Tobi.

If Madara was truly 100% Madara, he wouldn't need to be in disguise or wear a mask or anything.

Tobi was added in as Deidara's replacement, Tobi...the person who you all think is Madara...was just accepted into his own organization.

Two Personalities.
Known as two different people.
Revealed the exact half of his face I said was Madara, and didn't show the other.

And there is much more evidence that you can look up in this thread.
Tobi is ____Dara, that is true.
Not saying that that blank couldn't be Ma, but it's not looking that way.

He's been called Madara, but also been called Tobi. We've seen the half that is Madara, but we haven't seen the half that is Tobi. So at the moment he is ___Dara....or Tobidara.

it makes sense
but also the reason he doesnt want to show his face is because he doesn't want the akutski (other than pein) to konw who he is
also, just to prove that it isnt obito
itachi made sasuke's mangekyou react to madara's sharingan. he wouldn't have known what obito's looked like
he knew what madara's looked like cuz he was his mentor

[Mattus]

it makes sense
but also the reason he doesnt want to show his face is because he doesn't want the akutski (other than pein) to konw who he is
also, just to prove that it isnt obito
itachi made sasuke's mangekyou react to madara's sharingan. he wouldn't have known what obito's looked like
he knew what madara's looked like cuz he was his mentor

Actually, Pein, Konan, Zetsu, Itachi and possibly Kisame all know who he is.

Actually, that doesn't prove anything, because Obito was left 17 years ago, Madara became Itachi's mentor 9 years ago.

So Madara would've already been in Obito's body when he became Itachi's mentor.

[Gära]

but then wouldn't itachi know if it was madara or if it was obidara? unless he wore the mask through the entire time he trained him (which i doubt)
then he would've said that he wanted sasuke's eyes so he could defeat ___dara instead of madara

[gheorghecoser]

No more answers, i mean manga 397 already exist from last week, so take a look:

http://m4.narutocentral.com/manga/397/16.png
Obito is dead! No more Obito! TOBI=UCHIHA MADARA!

[Gära]

i no
but majin will say something like
"that is not madara's face! it cant be him."

[Mattus]

but then wouldn't itachi know if it was madara or if it was obidara? unless he wore the mask through the entire time he trained him (which i doubt)
then he would've said that he wanted sasuke's eyes so he could defeat ___dara instead of madara

I think the puzzle is finally complete. Never once have I had a comeback to everything that was actually in the manga.

Tobi said, if he hadn't of kept some things secret from Itachi, he(meaning Tobi) would be dead.

And Itachi also said he is a pathetic shell of his former self.


No more answers, i mean manga 397 already exist from last week, so take a look:

http://m4.narutocentral.com/manga/397/16.png
Obito is dead! No more Obito! TOBI=UCHIHA MADARA!

1. Obito was never shown to be dead.
2. Tobi is ____dara, not Madara, read between the lines, dig deeper, learn to type faster.


Actually no, that was Madara's face, just one half, the half I said it would be, and it never showed the half that isn't.
That was on purpose.

[gheorghecoser]

I know; people just talk, they can't stop, even if the truth is revealed:

Uchiha Madara=Tobi or Tobi=Uchiha Madara!

[Gära]

most people die when a gigantic rock falls on them

[Mattus]

I know; people just talk, they can't stop, even if the truth is revealed:

Uchiha Madara=Tobi or Tobi=Uchiha Madara!

Which is why he's not.
This is something I don't expect you to understand.
But it was revealed, 33 chapters ago that Tobi is Madara.
33 chapters later, the mask still isn't off.
Now,when the mask comes off, it shows half of Madara's face, but not the other half, then the mask goes back on. That is to prove Tobi is Madara to everyone who thinks so, and is basically a little wink, wink to those who understand writing concepts, it's very basic, I have no idea how only three people have recognized this.

Secondly, he's been called Madara, he's said he is Madara, yet we still don't know if he is, this is misleading on your part it's so obvious he's Madara, so obvious it makes it even more obvious he's not.
Again, basic concept.


most people die when a gigantic rock falls on them

Most people die when their heads are smashed against the ground and break neck speeds no pun intended.
Most people die from an explosion greater than an Atom Bomb.
Most people die when hit with Rasengan.
Most people die when they shove a pole through their heart.

I could go on....

Obito is far from the worst case of death defying actions.


And leave Obito out of this, I'm done discussing Obito.

[gheorghecoser]

To all of you:
I FOUNDED THE FULL MYSTERY OF TOBI OR UCHIHA MADARA;
PLEASE VISITE THIS LINK:
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Madara_Uchiha
and PLEASE READ MY SPOILER TO SEE THE TRUTH ABOUT TOBI AND OBITO UCHIHA!

Madara after being hurt and injured rather badly from shinobi of the leaf during the attack from the Kyuubi, Madara took over the young body of Uchiha Obito. The one eye of the sharingan is in place as Hatake Kakashi has the other. As Tobi, Madara wears an orange mask that covers his entire face outside of his right eye. Furthermore, Tobi has several bolts or pins present on the arms of his uniform, obscured by his Akatsuki cloak. The pin's and bolts represent the structure of Obito's crushed body to be intact and supported.[4] While acting as Tobi, unlike others within Akatsuki, Tobi is carefree and goofy. The reason behind his of him becoming goofy is that of Obito. Obito was rather goofy and annoying like Naruto in much similarities. Obito dying at a young age was however, not being able to grow mature and be less goofy. Obito, being brought back by Madara causing him to inharite some of his traits, as Kakashi did from gaining the Sharingan of being however frequently late. While Madara also uses a very formal and correct manner of speech.

While Tobi greatly respects his other members, referring to Deidara as Deidara-senpai in the Japanese version, most of the other members tend to get easily annoyed by Tobi. Deidara, who believes all within Akatsuki should be serious and calm, is not pleased with Tobi's childish personality, and frequently attacks Tobi in a comedic fashion when annoyed. Kisame, on the other hand, somewhat appreciates Tobi's ability to brighten up a gloomy organization such as theirs.[5] Ironically, Kisame is also the only living Akatsuki member who doesn't know Tobi's true identity.

As Tobi, Madara has not been seen wearing a forehead protector, probably to seal his identity, though he already has a mask covering his forehead, so this could also be why it is not visible.



Madara is known to have the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan, but the rest of his jutsu arsenal remains unknown, as he has never been shown fighting or utilizing jutsu. However, since the Uchiha clan is known for its fire techniques and since he is its founder, it is very possible he knows advanced fire techniques. He was armed with a giant fan which he most likely used to increase his fire techniques. He and Deidara were able to defeat the Three Tails, but Madara (as Tobi) was never shown doing anything but running from it. After the battle, which goes largely unwitnessed, he claims to have knocked it out with a single attack. Deidara disagrees with the assessment, claiming that it was his "artistic contribution" (exploding clay) that allowed them to win. While as Tobi, Madara is also shown planting Deidara's clay minefields underground during a later battle. Later it is shown that he became the "invincible immortal" that Itachi claims him to be by first killing his best friend to achieve the Mangekyo Sharingan and then made this permanent by taking the eyes of his younger brother.

Madara shows the ability to recover from what are presumably debilitating or fatal blows. After being slashed across the midsection by Sasuke's sword, he collapses, only to stand up again a few seconds later and complain about the speed of the attack,[6] and later when Naruto hits him in the back with a Rasengan [7]. The attacks literally phase through him, avoiding damage. Itachi later remarks Madara as an "invincible immortal [8].

Madara also shows the ability to travel long distances within relatively short timespans, escaping the final explosion created by Deidara and reappearing in Amegakure, then travelling to the Valley of the End all within a very short time span. It is speculated that he uses space/time ninjutsu to instantly send himself or even parts of his body to different locations or some sort of void and instantly bring them back. This was noted in his fight with Naruto, Sakura, Sai, Kakashi, Yamato, Kiba, Hinata, and Shino when Naruto attacked with a full powered Rasengan that phased right through him, and also when he escaped Shino's bugs even though they were completely surrounding his body.

After he escaped Deidara's final explosion, it is revealed that he possesses the Sharingan, shown visible through the opening of his mask. The demon fox mentioned that Madara's chakra was sinister, more sinister than its own. Madara was the only person capable of taming the demon fox which was said to only come where human malice collects and festers, yet he was able to use the Sharingan to tame the tailed beast.

During Itachi's fight with Sasuke, it is revealed that Madara Uchiha and his younger brother were the first members of the Uchiha to activate the Mangekyo Sharingan, and used its power to take over the clan. After going blind he stole his brothers eyes and awakened a new "eternal" Mangekyo Sharingan, a combination of his own and his brother's Mangekyo Sharingan which gave him untold amounts of power without the risk of losing his eye sight. It was with this power Madara was able to forcibly subdue the demon fox.

487

[HyuugaHinata]

Nobody knows yet except for Kishi :rolleyes:

[gheorghecoser]

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU PEOPLE?



Madara after being hurt and injured rather badly from shinobi of the leaf during the attack from the Kyuubi, Madara took over the young body of Uchiha Obito. The one eye of the sharingan is in place as Hatake Kakashi has the other. As Tobi, Madara wears an orange mask that covers his entire face outside of his right eye. Furthermore, Tobi has several bolts or pins present on the arms of his uniform, obscured by his Akatsuki cloak. The pin's and bolts represent the structure of Obito's crushed body to be intact and supported.[4] While acting as Tobi, unlike others within Akatsuki, Tobi is carefree and goofy. The reason behind his of him becoming goofy is that of Obito. Obito was rather goofy and annoying like Naruto in much similarities. Obito dying at a young age was however, not being able to grow mature and be less goofy. Obito, being brought back by Madara causing him to inharite some of his traits, as Kakashi did from gaining the Sharingan of being however frequently late. While Madara also uses a very formal and correct manner of speech.

While Tobi greatly respects his other members, referring to Deidara as Deidara-senpai in the Japanese version, most of the other members tend to get easily annoyed by Tobi. Deidara, who believes all within Akatsuki should be serious and calm, is not pleased with Tobi's childish personality, and frequently attacks Tobi in a comedic fashion when annoyed. Kisame, on the other hand, somewhat appreciates Tobi's ability to brighten up a gloomy organization such as theirs.[5] Ironically, Kisame is also the only living Akatsuki member who doesn't know Tobi's true identity.

As Tobi, Madara has not been seen wearing a forehead protector, probably to seal his identity, though he already has a mask covering his forehead, so this could also be why it is not visible.



Madara is known to have the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan, but the rest of his jutsu arsenal remains unknown, as he has never been shown fighting or utilizing jutsu. However, since the Uchiha clan is known for its fire techniques and since he is its founder, it is very possible he knows advanced fire techniques. He was armed with a giant fan which he most likely used to increase his fire techniques. He and Deidara were able to defeat the Three Tails, but Madara (as Tobi) was never shown doing anything but running from it. After the battle, which goes largely unwitnessed, he claims to have knocked it out with a single attack. Deidara disagrees with the assessment, claiming that it was his "artistic contribution" (exploding clay) that allowed them to win. While as Tobi, Madara is also shown planting Deidara's clay minefields underground during a later battle. Later it is shown that he became the "invincible immortal" that Itachi claims him to be by first killing his best friend to achieve the Mangekyo Sharingan and then made this permanent by taking the eyes of his younger brother.

Madara shows the ability to recover from what are presumably debilitating or fatal blows. After being slashed across the midsection by Sasuke's sword, he collapses, only to stand up again a few seconds later and complain about the speed of the attack,[6] and later when Naruto hits him in the back with a Rasengan [7]. The attacks literally phase through him, avoiding damage. Itachi later remarks Madara as an "invincible immortal [8].

Madara also shows the ability to travel long distances within relatively short timespans, escaping the final explosion created by Deidara and reappearing in Amegakure, then travelling to the Valley of the End all within a very short time span. It is speculated that he uses space/time ninjutsu to instantly send himself or even parts of his body to different locations or some sort of void and instantly bring them back. This was noted in his fight with Naruto, Sakura, Sai, Kakashi, Yamato, Kiba, Hinata, and Shino when Naruto attacked with a full powered Rasengan that phased right through him, and also when he escaped Shino's bugs even though they were completely surrounding his body.

After he escaped Deidara's final explosion, it is revealed that he possesses the Sharingan, shown visible through the opening of his mask. The demon fox mentioned that Madara's chakra was sinister, more sinister than its own. Madara was the only person capable of taming the demon fox which was said to only come where human malice collects and festers, yet he was able to use the Sharingan to tame the tailed beast.

During Itachi's fight with Sasuke, it is revealed that Madara Uchiha and his younger brother were the first members of the Uchiha to activate the Mangekyo Sharingan, and used its power to take over the clan. After going blind he stole his brothers eyes and awakened a new "eternal" Mangekyo Sharingan, a combination of his own and his brother's Mangekyo Sharingan which gave him untold amounts of power without the risk of losing his eye sight. It was with this power Madara was able to forcibly subdue the demon fox.
487
HERE IS THE LINK:
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Madara_Uchiha

[Mattus]

OMG...those assholes stole my theory!
That's what I said to them a few months ago and they said I was an idiot!
Total Hypocrites.
Either way they messed it up, that is only partially correct, how Obito and Madara came to be Tobi is incorrect, as are many other things.
That site does not know anything btw, do not believe them the manga has yet to come out, they do not know.

[gheorghecoser]

Who Knows? That's What I Find On That Site!

[Mattus]

Yeah, the theories from that site are either wrong or stolen apparently.

[Gära]

if madara did take over obito he would have the same mangekyou sharingan as kakashi
does he?

[Mattus]

if madara did take over obito he would have the same mangekyou sharingan as kakashi
does he?

No he wouldn't.
Obito is an Uchiha, Kakashi is not.
It is not the sharingan that makes a difference, Itachi's Mangekyo is the Uchiha Mangekyo, Kakashi created his own through training.

[Gära]

most likely if obito had survived the rocks and still have given kakashi the sharingan, they would both have the same mangekyou sharingan

[Mattus]

most likely if obito had survived the rocks and still have given kakashi the sharingan, they would both have the same mangekyou sharingan

No they wouldn't.
It's simple anatomy.
So simple it actually pains me to be explaining this to someone older than me.
When you detach something...it's no longer....attached.

[Gära]

that does not matter
it still has the same genetics
it will still react the same way as the other one would if something happens

[Mattus]

that does not matter
it still has the same genetics
it will still react the same way as the other one would if something happens

No, no it really wouldn't.
If I chop of your arm.
And then your other arm grows longer, the arm I chopped off, will not grow longer.

[Gära]

that is not what i said
**** you are stupid
i wish i could talk to u in real life cuz its so much easier to explain and i could show u how stupid u r

[Mattus]

that is not what i said
**** you are stupid
i wish i could talk to u in real life cuz its so much easier to explain and i could show u how stupid u r

This debate is full of hypocrites, almost every person in this debate has turned out to be one at some point.

This...is your turn.

You are saying I am stupid....you are saying that it is possible to take out someone's eye, put it in someone else, and have that eye, still being the other persons's eye.

Okay, let me explain.
You are wrong.
Simple as that.
There shouldn't be an argument, you're 15, a year older than me, you are supposed to know how the human body works, I'm not gonna argue for something that's already true.
You just look it up.

[Gära]

once again that is not what i said
second of all, this is FICTION
in FICTION you can take out somebodies eye and replace it with your own

[Mattus]

once again that is not what i said
second of all, this is FICTION
in FICTION you can take out somebodies eye and replace it with your own

But they are still HUMAN.
For HUMANS you cannot take something out and still have that thing.

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

i disagree with gara on the MS fact .kakashi wouldn't have the same MS as obito b/c the person shapes what the MS looks like not the genetics of the eye..
But majin where were you going with the whole HUMAN thing? i mean the show is fiction and anything can happen... i mean all the HUMANS can do very UNHUMAN things such as all of their FIGHTING which is impossible in real life so what makes it different for an eye

[gheorghecoser]

No they wouldn't.
It's simple anatomy.
So simple it actually pains me to be explaining this to someone older than me.
When you detach something...it's no longer....attached.
Sorry but this time i agree with majinsharingan! You must read a book which contains anatomy.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

weLL is this argument even reLevant ?

obito has no eye's ! one was crushed and the other was given to kakashi !

but i do agree with majin here, if one eye get's MS, the other one doesn't ! how wouLd the Left eye know the right eye has MS ?

[Gära]

thats not what i said
i said that if obito did have one eye left it would be the same mangekyou form as kakashi's

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

weLL i even disagree with you on that !

the MS that kakashi has is different because he doesn't have uchiha bLood ! that's why he uses different jutsu's ! Like his bLack hoLe vortaL !

if obito has MS he wouLd have the same as itachi and sasuke and use amaretsu, tskuyomi and susanoo !

[gheorghecoser]

So Uchiha Madara is Tobi?
Answer: Yes, and finish! Amen! Nothing more for know, enough people!
Is confirmed: Madara=Tobi ; and probably Madara=Obito Uchiha, because he fusioned with Obito's body!

[duckofdoom99]

the MS that kakashi has is different because he doesn't have uchiha bLood ! that's why he uses different jutsu's ! Like his bLack hoLe vortaL !No the way i see it is that every MS has different abilities. The only reason sasuke's were the same were because they were in fact itachi's being used through his eyes.


if obito has MS he wouLd have the same as itachi and sasuke and use amaretsu, tskuyomi and susanoo !Again I think every MS gets his its own abilities.

[Gära]

weLL i even disagree with you on that !

the MS that kakashi has is different because he doesn't have uchiha bLood ! that's why he uses different jutsu's ! Like his bLack hoLe vortaL !

if obito has MS he wouLd have the same as itachi and sasuke and use amaretsu, tskuyomi and susanoo !

it does not matter if he has uchiha blood or not
if he got the eye from an uchiha then it will still be the same

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

No the way i see it is that every MS has different abilities. The only reason sasuke's were the same were because they were in fact itachi's being used through his eyes.

weLL that i cannot say is fact nor fiction ! we have yet to see another MS user's jutsu's ! ! !


it does not matter if he has uchiha blood or not
if he got the eye from an uchiha then it will still be the same

do you not read the manga?
it's different, fuLLstop, that's it !

[Raikage's left hand]

do you not read the manga?
it's different, fuLLstop, that's it !

I think you missed his point. Kakashi's sharingan is/was Obito's so the pattern on the Mangekyo for Obito's other eye should also be the same pattern as Kakashi's is.

[gheorghecoser]

JESUS, THIS IS CRAZY! FOR ME IS ENOUGH SO I AGREE WITH ALL OF YOU!!!

[Mattus]

No the way i see it is that every MS has different abilities. The only reason sasuke's were the same were because they were in fact itachi's being used through his eyes.

Again I think every MS gets his its own abilities.


I know, that's the way you see it not the way it is.


it does not matter if he has uchiha blood or not
if he got the eye from an uchiha then it will still be the same


I think you missed his point. Kakashi's sharingan is/was Obito's so the pattern on the Mangekyo for Obito's other eye should also be the same pattern as Kakashi's is.


This is sad.
It physically hurts me....

Gara, it's an eye, you take out an eye, it's no longer than person's eye. Notice how Kakashi can't deactivate it? That's because he can't control it because he's not an UCHIHA.

Muffin, Kakashi CREATED his Mangekyo, it's not an Uchiha Mangekyo, it's a custom made one that no one else would or could ever know. The reason Kakashi's is a different pattern is because it's a different Mangekyo than the regular one, secondly, I don't believe we've ever seen Tobi's Mangekyo.

Seriously, use your heads.

[Masterofdeath]

Actually we have. It was shown earlier in the manga... however it was Madara's sharingan. IT is different frojm the others

[Mattus]

What?

[duckofdoom99]

I know, that's the way you see it not the way it is.We will find out as soon as Tobi uses his.

[gheorghecoser]

MADARA'S SHARINGAN IS AN USUAL SHARINGAN!!!
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS:
http://m4.narutocentral.com/manga/395/17.png

[Mattus]

1. That's not the actual script.
and 2. That's the same sharingan Kakashi has.

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

I think you missed his point. Kakashi's sharingan is/was Obito's so the pattern on the Mangekyo for Obito's other eye should also be the same pattern as Kakashi's is.

i agree with majin,
obito can't have the same sharingan because kakashi's non uchiha bLood has tainted the eye !
thus giving him different jutsu's ! ! !

[Gära]

**** im done with this
i cant talk to such stupid people

[sHaoLin_ruGby]

cLose the door on your way out pLease !

[Shikamaru_ShadowNara]

Naruto - Ch. 397
The Man who knows the truth-
Tobi says he is Madara
he also takes part of his mask off and looks like Naruto but isnt.
and it shows in one part his whole top part of the body is engulfed by black flame.

[amathews1998]

I Made This Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[amathews1998]

ok if you haddent read naruto manga 396,then read it!on the last pages of chapter 396,tobi takes of his mask.only about 1/4 of his face is showing and 3/4 is coverd by is mask.We know he's a sharingan user but i dont think hes obito because his right eye was crushed.

this is my post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[jirayassecret]

this is my post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

Delete this spam or you will be reported to a MOD. Good luck with them. Show some respect in here.

[mdmy23]

Yup tobi is madara, and it doesnt mean if tobi is close to the name obito dosent mean h\its him and his dead already so why not read the manga.... :)

[Raikage's left hand]

This is sad.
It physically hurts me....

Gara, it's an eye, you take out an eye, it's no longer than person's eye. Notice how Kakashi can't deactivate it? That's because he can't control it because he's not an UCHIHA.

Muffin, Kakashi CREATED his Mangekyo, it's not an Uchiha Mangekyo, it's a custom made one that no one else would or could ever know. The reason Kakashi's is a different pattern is because it's a different Mangekyo than the regular one, secondly, I don't believe we've ever seen Tobi's Mangekyo.

Seriously, use your heads.

Speculation cannot be passed as fact, we don't know HOW Kakashi got his Mangekyo your "facts" fail.

If he can't even turn the thing off how the hell is it even his it's Obito's frigging eye sitting in Kakashi's eye socket i'll try to explain with a diagram.

O O <---Obito's eyes.
Z Z <--- Obito's mangekyo eyes
I I <--- Kakashi's eyes.

This is Kakashi as he is now: I O <--Kakashi eye/ Obito eye.
This is Obito as he is now (or would be): O I <--Obito/Kakashi eye.
Now when Kakashi turns his on it goes to: I Z <--Kakashi/Obito Mangekyo eye.
Now if Obito gains Mangekyo it should turn into this: Z I <--Obito Mangekyo/Kakashi eye.

[mdmy23]

Speculation cannot be passed as fact, we don't know HOW Kakashi got his Mangekyo your "facts" fail.

If he can't even turn the thing off how the hell is it even his it's Obito's frigging eye sitting in Kakashi's eye socket i'll try to explain with a diagram.

O O <---Obito's eyes.
Z Z <--- Obito's mangekyo eyes
I I <--- Kakashi's eyes.

This is Kakashi as he is now: I O <--Kakashi eye/ Obito eye.
This is Obito as he is now (or would be): O I <--Obito/Kakashi eye.
Now when Kakashi turns his on it goes to: I Z <--Kakashi/Obito Mangekyo eye.
Now if Obito gains Mangekyo it should turn into this: Z I <--Obito Mangekyo/Kakashi eye.

Ohhhh I get it your really right about that.......

[Mattus]

cLose the door on your way out pLease !

We have a door now?
Fancy!


Yup tobi is madara, and it doesnt mean if tobi is close to the name obito dosent mean h\its him and his dead already so why not read the manga.... :)

That's my advice, it doesn't work both ways in this case.


Speculation cannot be passed as fact, we don't know HOW Kakashi got his Mangekyo your "facts" fail.

Over the timeskip, through jutsu training, notice how he makes a hand sign to activate it?



O O <---Obito's eyes.
Z Z <--- Obito's mangekyo eyes
I I <--- Kakashi's eyes.

This is Kakashi as he is now: I O <--Kakashi eye/ Obito eye.
This is Obito as he is now (or would be): O I <--Obito/Kakashi eye.
Now when Kakashi turns his on it goes to: I Z <--Kakashi/Obito Mangekyo eye.
Now if Obito gains Mangekyo it should turn into this: Z I <--Obito Mangekyo/Kakashi eye.

No.
Okay, If I were to chop off your leg, and you were to later grow taller, would that leg grow taller too?
No it wouldn't, it's no longer your leg, it's common knowledge, this isn't even taught in school, it's just common sense.
This is the perfect example right here.

Heart transplant, Two Dying Men, you take the heart out of one man and put it in the other to make that man better, but in return, the man who had his heart taken out dies. Now the man is dead but the heart is still beating, if your theory was true, the heart would seize to work because of the man's death.

You take someone's eye out and put it in someone else. It's no longer their eye.
Secondly, Kakashi is not an Uchiha, he developed MS on his own.

[mdmy23]

You know Obito is quite shameful cause the time he activated his Sharingan he also died that particular day.........

Karma.....

Well just to know what are the jutsus does Obito use?

[Raikage's left hand]

Over the timeskip, through jutsu training, notice how he makes a hand sign to activate it?


Hinata also used Handseals when she activated her byakugan..guess she must've somehow stolen both her eyes too..




No.
Okay, If I were to chop off your leg, and you were to later grow taller, would that leg grow taller too?
No it wouldn't, it's no longer your leg, it's common knowledge, this isn't even taught in school, it's just common sense.
This is the perfect example right here.

Except for the obvious difference here being eyes don't grow after around 5...



Heart transplant, Two Dying Men, you take the heart out of one man and put it in the other to make that man better, but in return, the man who had his heart taken out dies. Now the man is dead but the heart is still beating, if your theory was true, the heart would seize to work because of the man's death.

No that wasn't what i was saying at all you missed the point.


You take someone's eye out and put it in someone else. It's no longer their eye.
Secondly, Kakashi is not an Uchiha, he developed MS on his own.

Of course it's not his eye it's a uchiha's eye which sits in his eye socket hence the lack of control in closing it and turning the sharingan off.

[mdmy23]

Maybe hinata has a disorder or something?

[XuchihaXsasukeX]

^maybe lol but im pretty sure she only uses handsigns when she uses a byukgan jutsu.. like when she was trying to find where tobi was when he disappered... give us proff that hinta uses handsigns to ACTIVATE it

[jirayassecret]

Hinata also used Handseals when she activated her byakugan..guess she must've somehow stolen both her eyes too..


Of course it's not his eye it's a uchiha's eye which sits in his eye socket hence the lack of control in closing it and turning the sharingan off.

Are you saying there is a connection with obito regarding the eye control? Thats umm....Stupi...d. Kakashi owns the eye, he has total control over the eye minus turning it off. yea it is his and his alone now. Matt makes total sense.

by the way Byukugan is not sharingan, so argument void. Very respectfully of course...

[mdmy23]

^maybe lol but im pretty sure she only uses handsigns when she uses a byukgan jutsu.. like when she was trying to find where tobi was when he disappered... give us proff that hinta uses handsigns to ACTIVATE it

Well thats why there is a saying you cant really perfect sometimes the exact time just like naruto on his rasengan......

[jirayassecret]

Hinata- handsigns or chakra concentration....not the same thing.

[BK-nin]

^maybe lol but im pretty sure she only uses handsigns when she uses a byukgan jutsu.. like when she was trying to find where tobi was when he disappered... give us proff that hinta uses handsigns to ACTIVATE it
there's no such thing as a "byakugan jutsu" and she uses a handseal to focus her chakara, lots of people do it.