Meeting on Climate Change in Coppenhagen.

[WhiteFang]

Seems like it holds little promise. They are going to abandon the Kyoto protocol and probably try to work out a new policy; only that it'll never be worked out because everyone will be too busy pointing accusing fingers at each other.

It'll be a sad day in history if they cannot come up with a positive policy to combat global warming and climate change.

What are your views? Can we just let our leaders procrastinate and not do anything about climate change? Let them ruin the planet for the future generations because of their own selfish political motives?

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

I'm sure they will come up with something.
However it will most likely be full of concessions and loopholes to the extent that it's overall effectiveness and value means nothing really changes.

The problem is not so much the leaders but the fact that all of them are out to save the world from global warming as they promise...... but generally in a way that their countries benefit the most from it.
Selfish perhaps but many will simply be following the will of their collective country and so blaming only the leaders isn't entirely fair.

Now they may compromise a little but ultimately they will do this a few times before anything meaningful happens

[WhiteFang]

Well said, Adam.

Actually, not too long ago, I used to feel that the entire hell being raised over the issue of global warming is infact just exaggeration and well, false talk.

However, over the years, now I realize that it's actually true. This summer in my country it was so friggin' hot that putting up was next to impossible without an air-conditioner. And let's not forget that the hot gases AC's themselves pump out aid in enhancing local temperatures.
But, what about those who don't have access to such facilities? Those who spend time outside, working in the heat of the day and come home to cramped room at night? The extreme rise in toll of those killed due to the heat wave this year really isn't a joke.

In short, climate change is fast becoming a reality.

The more time we waste in taking some form of concrete action, the worst it's going to get. And the fact that you mention that everyone is out to do their bit of good, in their own little way, actually isn't all that true.
Had they been doing even a little in their own way, the targets set by the Kyoto protocol, like reducing emissions by a meager 5.3% by 2012, wouldn't have become an impossibility. But they have, hence why they are abandoning it now.

Point being that, until and unless their is strict enforcement and actual drive: more in the people than the governments, to bring about change, then only will it happen.

Which is why I feel that this meeting in 'Hagen is of great importance; not entirely in terms of framing a positive policy, but more importantly in sending out a clear and certain message to the people: that we all need to be doing our bit, even if just a little, to reduce our carbon footprints. Eventually, the people bringing small changes to their lifestyles is what will make a difference, not policies on paper.
However, I'm afraid, with the current narrow minded attitude of world leaders regarding this case, it will only serve to worsen the situation and send out a negative message to the public.

[/rant]

[Jetkid]

Climate change/global warming is 100% BS. In fact, either the arctic or antarctic (forget which) is growing. Polar bears' population is growing. Besides, I read somewhere that cows take up a very large % of emission.
And what you said about it being so hot has absolutely nothing to do with climate change/global warming. The whole thing is that the threat it supposedly posses is by changing the average temperature by only a few degrees. It wouldn't be noticeable by people, that summer was just a hot one.

From my opinions in this thread as well as the God thread, I'm pretty sure you guys can tell I'm very conservative!
Now all we need is a thread about capitalism or the war.

[WhiteFang]

^ Get me a research to back that up. Because it's actual fact that dozens of researches are publishing reports which mark global warming and climate change as a very real and active threat.
And it wasn't just a hot summer, because I've lived at that place for 17 years. I know it isn't supposed to be that hot. Especially not hot enough to kill people due to the heat wave itself.
I agree that cows too play a part in that, but who exactly do you think raises millions of cows anyways? It's humans.

And oh my.. wherever the hell have you been reading things like the ice-caps have been expanding as well as polar bear populations? Polar bears are fast becoming an endangered species due to lack of proper habitat and food.

Anyways. I understand your point.. because well, there are basically two opposition camps out there: The ones raising a huge hue and cry over Global Warming and others who are simply writing it off.
I personally feel they are both wrong, and the truth lies somewhere in between.
Yes, we are suffering from climate changes. And yes, we are partly responsible. And no, we don't need to become cavemen to change that, we just need to make certain small changes to our lifestyles and be actively aware of what we do, consume and give out to the environment. It's not all that complicated. The politics is what complicates it.

Here are links:
http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/war...r-springs.html
http://www.globalwarming.org/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...es-a-year.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6213179.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle767459.ece

[Jetkid]

It's not politics that's blowing it so out of proportion, it's the media. I do agree that it's not entirely false, there is some merit to it. However, I still believe it's toward the side of "not a serious threat".
I acknowledge that I have no proof, and I really don't want to spend several hours finding it. I'm ignoring your proof though, as most of it is probably just lies and BS. I know it's not really the best way to debate, but this seems more of an opinion thread than a debate thread, due to the questions asked.

What are your views? Can we just let our leaders procrastinate and not do anything about climate change? Let them ruin the planet for the future generations because of their own selfish political motives?

[Nyanki]

Opinion thread or not, that's a pretty sour response, Jetkid. Maybe you meant personally that you suck at finding sources, but it implied that people who do find sources on the matter are just wasting their lives finding it. And to dismiss the sources Fang provided the way you did was just mean, man.

I have a question though, since you do think it exists, but it's "not a serious threat" as you said. At what point will it be a serious threat and we should take action?

The longer we wait, the harder it will be to fix.

I once watched a special on the Discovery Channel entitled The Day the Earth Nearly Died, which detailed the events of the Permian Mass Extinction. According to scientists, a world-wide temperature change of just 10 degrees Celsius over a few thousand years can kill off a large number of species. In the Permian Mass Extinction, 95% of the species were wiped out because this happened. A massive volcano eruption in Siberia accounted for 4-5 degrees of the temperature raise back then. Now, is it possible, that after over a century of putting carbon dioxide and other stuff into the air, we are starting to accomplish the same thing?

There's an official summary of the program here, if you would like to see. Which only took about 20 seconds to find via Google. But, if you want to dismiss it off as bologna without even a look at it like you did the other sources, hey, that's your call.

[Jetkid]

Yeah, I'll just be dismissing that. And yeah, I'm sort of a mean person, i get it from my dad. Anyway, I don't think I'll ever really need to do anything to "fix the problem". I'll continue emitting as much carbon and whatnot as I please, and everyone else will fix it for me! We have bigger issues/threats to worry about at the moment, like the economy, health care, and the largest threat which is, of course, the war on terror. I think we can just push this to the side for a while.

[WhiteFang]

^ I think Stacy replied best to you.

However, few things I'd like to address:

I'll continue emitting as much carbon and whatnot as I please, and everyone else will fix it for me!

Rather childish and shallow. I really don't care about your carbon foot print, but the fact that you think others will fix it for you..? That's just naive. Your the one who's responsible for your actions, the sooner you learn that, the better. Everyone else is not your servant, they're not going to fix anything for you, thinking that is highly escapist. If anyone's gonna "fix" it, it'll be you, or it's not getting fixed. Don't expect others to come and do your job for you.

We have bigger issues/threats to worry about at the moment, like the economy, health care, and the largest threat which is, of course, the war on terror. I think we can just push this to the side for a while.

Economy? Recessions? It's just a routine economic phenomena. The direct by-product of silly investors and banks who failed to forsee things in their pursuit of monetary gains. Regardless, it's a cycle. You can't do anything to improve it. It's something that fixes itself in time.
Health care? In general, or are you referring to a particular nation? Because they are both different scenarios and situations. Not too big a deal though. *shrugs* It's something directly proportional to development and available personnel in the field.
Healthcare in the US is surprisingly expensive, because there's lesser number of qualified people in the field, or rather, very few are choosing to become doctors due to the rigor of the course, and the life that is to follow. Low supply and high demand: Costs rise.
In India on the contrary, Healthcare is comparatively much cheaper. Though it's costs have begun to pick up over the past decade or so as the number of students opting for the medical stream has reduced quite a lot, due to the inherent popularity of the IT sector over it.
Terrorism? Yes it's a big threat. :/ That's kind of obvious. But what can you do about it? Except say.. contribute on spreading awareness. None of your actions will make a difference to radicals, or the way they think. Look at yourself, you simply rejected my links and are sticking to your opinion, you won't negotiate. Most radicals are in the same mold. They'll continue to do what they think is right, it doesn't matter to them if achieving their goals involves slaughtering innocents. It's their perspective.
But trust me, intolerance and misunderstanding are the seeds of terrorism, which eventually grow into plants of anger and hatred and finally trees of inhuman violence that you call "terrorism"

The only people who can effectively work against them and bring a difference are intelligence forces and the military, and collective governmental actions to cut it at the roots. Terrorism is highly complicated, has more than one cause and motivation. They range from political to economic, to just because.

[NaruxHina_4_Ever]

Nice to see a bit of Cynacism from Jetkid.
For the banking bit Fang summed it well.
For healthcare (I'm assuming you are American and if not I apologise) but basically America picked a really bad healthcare system to start with and are stubborn enough to resist change to a better proven system (call it socialism if you want but it works for everyone else thats got it including France who have the best healtcare in the world)
Terrorism is not really something you can combat.
It has and always will be around and about all you can do is continually work to minimise it.

as for Global warming the only problem I ahve is whether or not it is entirely manmade and dangerous or whether it is merely a continuation of past trends of heating and cooling.
Because basically put Global warming has happened before in the past and it is inevitable that species will go extinct because of it.
Should we really be blaming only ourselves and can we realistically stop what is a natural process (In fact some think that the warming was merely sped up and not caused by humans)

Now this is not to say we aren't partly to blame and should just watch animals go extinct while shrugging ang ignoring it.
But I don't think it is all doom, gloom and armageddon as many seem to predict.